Evil.C Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 I submitted a comic book for a private signing that had already been graded and slabbed by CGC. The book was graded at 9.8 in July of 2019. I sent this book in just a couple of months ago for a private signing and it when it came back, it was regraded at 9.6. What??? It was sent in still sealed in the CGC slab so CGC removed it from the slab (which they charge a fee to do) for the signing and now it’s a lower grade and there are no grader notes as to why? So, my question is: what is CGC “guaranteeing”? If a book can be graded differently each time it’s submitted to them, what really is being “guaranteed”? I understand that if a book is resubmitted raw, meaning it was graded and it was removed from the slab prior to being sent back into CGC custody to be graded again, that it could receive a different grade. But if the book is already graded and is still sealed and slabbed when CGC receives it and CGC is the party removing the book from its protected shell, then it should receive the same grade. They should be "guaranteeing" the safety and protection of the item in their possession. The signing of a book should not result in a lower grade. And if, by some freak chance the book is damaged between the time CGC removes the book from its protective slab and the time it’s regraded, then they should contact the customer and it should be noted in the grader notes that damage occurred while in their possession. CGC has made a very big business out of “guaranteeing” the grade and condition of comic books and have become the "standard" in comic book grading, They have “professional graders” to perform this work which means there should be consistency in the grading results regardless as to which person actually does grading. But if the grade a book receives is subjective to the grader and every grader is going to grade differently, how “professional” are the graders then and what is the point of having something graded if there is no consistency. Professional graders should all be following a similar, if not the exact same, grading processes and requirements. That means that if one person grades something to be a certain condition, the other graders should be able to verify and concur on that grade and condition. Otherwise, it’s not a “guaranteed grading” only that it is a paid grading. And EVERY submission should have grader notes; it should be mandatory and not subjective to if the grader “feels like it”. The customer is paying for this service and there should be a documented reason as to why an item has received a certain grade. This just seems like a racket to me. So far, the answer that I’ve found to the question “What does CGC actually “guarantee?” is they “guarantee” that they’ll take your money. They “guarantee” nothing else. They basically even say so on the website. Submitting a comic book to be graded by CGC just means that you’re gambling and it’s the “luck of the draw” as to what grade that book will receive and if there will be any notes as to why. You can gamble again by resubmitting and hoping to get a better grade and CGC just rakes in the money with every try. CGC only “guarantees” that you’re playing a game of chance and paying them for the opportunity. aardvark88, Randall Dowling and MatterEaterLad 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Lightning55 Posted August 3, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 3, 2020 Here is what CGC guarantees for signature series comics (from the website): The Collectible has been inspected by at least two (2) professionals The Collectible is authentic The designated witnessed signature(s) on the Collectible are authentic Maybe your expectation exceeded these parameters. https://www.cgccomics.com/grading/cgc-guarantee/ As soon as comic leaves CGC, anything can happen to it to reduce its grade - damage in shipping due to impacts, wear during shipping from shaking, item dropped, etc. A 9.8 can change after further handling of any kind, so not their problem. Maybe the 9.8 was never a 9..8, and was best left in its over-graded state. theCapraAegagrus, Lazyboy, Randall Dowling and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 20 minutes ago, Lightning55 said: Here is what CGC guarantees for signature series comics (from the website): The Collectible has been inspected by at least two (2) professionals The Collectible is authentic The designated witnessed signature(s) on the Collectible are authentic Maybe your expectation exceeded these parameters. https://www.cgccomics.com/grading/cgc-guarantee/ As soon as comic leaves CGC, anything can happen to it to reduce its grade - damage in shipping due to impacts, wear during shipping from shaking, item dropped, etc. A 9.8 can change after further handling of any kind, so not their problem. Maybe the 9.8 was never a 9..8, and was best left in its over-graded state. All of this. The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James J Johnson Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 On 7/31/2020 at 7:52 PM, Evil.C said: I submitted a comic book for a private signing that had already been graded and slabbed by CGC. The book was graded at 9.8 in July of 2019. I sent this book in just a couple of months ago for a private signing and it when it came back, it was regraded at 9.6. What??? It was sent in still sealed in the CGC slab so CGC removed it from the slab (which they charge a fee to do) for the signing and now it’s a lower grade and there are no grader notes as to why? So, my question is: what is CGC “guaranteeing”? If a book can be graded differently each time it’s submitted to them, what really is being “guaranteed”? I understand that if a book is resubmitted raw, meaning it was graded and it was removed from the slab prior to being sent back into CGC custody to be graded again, that it could receive a different grade. But if the book is already graded and is still sealed and slabbed when CGC receives it and CGC is the party removing the book from its protected shell, then it should receive the same grade. They should be "guaranteeing" the safety and protection of the item in their possession. The signing of a book should not result in a lower grade. And if, by some freak chance the book is damaged between the time CGC removes the book from its protective slab and the time it’s regraded, then they should contact the customer and it should be noted in the grader notes that damage occurred while in their possession. CGC has made a very big business out of “guaranteeing” the grade and condition of comic books and have become the "standard" in comic book grading, They have “professional graders” to perform this work which means there should be consistency in the grading results regardless as to which person actually does grading. But if the grade a book receives is subjective to the grader and every grader is going to grade differently, how “professional” are the graders then and what is the point of having something graded if there is no consistency. Professional graders should all be following a similar, if not the exact same, grading processes and requirements. That means that if one person grades something to be a certain condition, the other graders should be able to verify and concur on that grade and condition. Otherwise, it’s not a “guaranteed grading” only that it is a paid grading. And EVERY submission should have grader notes; it should be mandatory and not subjective to if the grader “feels like it”. The customer is paying for this service and there should be a documented reason as to why an item has received a certain grade. This just seems like a racket to me. So far, the answer that I’ve found to the question “What does CGC actually “guarantee?” is they “guarantee” that they’ll take your money. They “guarantee” nothing else. They basically even say so on the website. Submitting a comic book to be graded by CGC just means that you’re gambling and it’s the “luck of the draw” as to what grade that book will receive and if there will be any notes as to why. You can gamble again by resubmitting and hoping to get a better grade and CGC just rakes in the money with every try. CGC only “guarantees” that you’re playing a game of chance and paying them for the opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning55 Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 Hey, it could be much, much worse..... I Never Thought This Would Happen to Me - 9.6 White to 7.5 off-white in 3 months The Lions Den and Randall Dowling 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Teacher Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Lightning55 said: As soon as comic leaves CGC, anything can happen to it to reduce its grade - damage in shipping due to impacts, wear during shipping from shaking, item dropped, etc. A 9.8 can change after further handling of any kind, so not their problem. Maybe the 9.8 was never a 9..8, and was best left in its over-graded state. I don't believe this is the situation the OP is describing. The lower grade didn't happen after the comic left CGC. It either happened when the book was sent to CGC or it happened while the book was in CGC's possession. Could the book have been damaged in the slab when it was sent to CGC? I suppose, if the OP just threw it in a box. I have buying a LOT of comics over the last two years, and I have found if the slab is packed well, I have not seen any damage that is noticeable to my eye. If I got out a jeweler's loupe, I might be able to find some minuscule damage. When I had a book autographed by using Desert Wind (and PLEASE, can we not rehash that thread?), I was informed that the book could be damaged by the signer. That is why Desert Wind recommended a press. The book I sent was ASM CGC 7.0; after Stan Lee and John Romita Sr signed it on two different occasions, it came back as a CGC 7.5 after the press. I can't speak for everybody's experience. I can only relay what I have seen. Edited August 3, 2020 by Joe Ankenbauer The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Teacher Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 Just now, 42-39-56 said: How do we know some kind of damage even occurred? A book can go from a 9.8 to a 9.6 on a straight resub easily. Isn't this part of what the OP is complaining about? He's upset that a book can receive a different grade based on who the grader is, and whether the grader is having a good or bad day. I consider grading to be more of an art, and less of a science. I think that is an unrealistic expectation that every grader at CGC would give a book the exact same grade. However, if we replace the graders with robots, .... Will96 and The Lions Den 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning55 Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 Posted 7 minutes ago (edited) 7 hours ago, Lightning55 said: As soon as comic leaves CGC, anything can happen to it to reduce its grade - damage in shipping due to impacts, wear during shipping from shaking, item dropped, etc. A 9.8 can change after further handling of any kind, so not their problem. Maybe the 9.8 was never a 9..8, and was best left in its over-graded state. 8 minutes ago, Joe Ankenbauer said: I don't believe this is the situation the OP is describing. The lower grade didn't happen after the comic left CGC. It either happened when the book was sent to CGC or it happened while the book was in CGC's possession. Could the book have been damaged in the slab when it was sent to CGC? I suppose, if the OP just threw it in a box. I have buying a LOT of comics over the last two years, and I have found if the slab is packed well, I have not seen any damage that is noticeable to my eye. If I got out a jeweler's loupe, I might be able to find some minuscule damage. When I had a book autographed by using Desert Wind (and PLEASE, can we not rehash that thread?), I was informed that the book could be damaged by the signer. That is why Desert Wind recommended a press. The book I sent was ASM CGC 7.0; after Stan Lee and John Romita Sr signed it on two different occasions, it came back as a CGC 7.5 after the press. I can't speak for everybody's experience. I can only relay what I have seen. I didn't present ANY type of specific situation, including the sequence that the OP depicted. I am saying that CGC grades the comic as contracted, and then ships it. Job over. If ANYTHING happens to it after that moment, or NOTHING happens after that moment, it is irrelevant to CGC. They wash their hands of it once it leaves the premises. If it comes back to them as a re-grade, which applies to private signings, it gets a fresh look, just like it was newly submitted. Might get a different grade if it looked EXACTLY like it did the first time, as grades are educated opinions. They might see something they missed the first time, give a defect more weight, etc. And there is the possibility that it is a bit worse for wear the second time around, for whatever reason. It is ALWAYS a gamble getting something graded. Sometimes it comes back higher than expected. You have to take the bad with the good. It can't all be one way. KCOComics and The Lions Den 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatterEaterLad Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 Yeesh. I sent in a few books for the Miller signing. Still waiting for grading. The instances mentioned above, along with my recent grading fiasco where a book had more restoration discovered after resto removal, and I'm lowering my expectations even further. The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 I've submitted many books to CGC over the years. You win some and you lose some. I'm sorry for your loss on this one, but that's life, my friend... Randall Dowling, telerites and Will96 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James J Johnson Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 23 minutes ago, The Lions Den said: that's life, my friend... Words of wisdom!! The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jokiing Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 (edited) I considered sending a DD 168 CGC 9.8 for the Miller signing but sent a raw instead (which ended up graded at 9.6). The drop in value from 9.8 to 9.6 was too significant to take a chance with SS handling. Edited August 4, 2020 by jokiing The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 15 minutes ago, James J Johnson said: Words of wisdom!! Now there's a guy with some serious problems... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatterEaterLad Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 32 minutes ago, jokiing said: I considered sending a DD 168 CGC 9.8 for the Miller signing but sent a raw instead (which graded 9.6). The drop in value from 9.8 to 9.6 was too significant to take a chance with SS handling. Did you get yours back already? I did the same with a DD 158. Sent in a 9.6. Hoping it comes back a 9.6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jokiing Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, MatterEaterLad said: Did you get yours back already? I did the same with a DD 158. Sent in a 9.6. Hoping it comes back a 9.6. I did get it back... but had to return for a fix.... didn't do a press on this one, which is one reason why I got it back already... plus I sent it in early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James J Johnson Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 4 hours ago, The Lions Den said: Now there's a guy with some serious problems... Should have been submitted then committed before ever being transmitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trifisherjoe Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 "...anything can happen to it to reduce its grade - damage in shipping due to impacts..." Come on! That would never happen! They handle with "care". Your just talking crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 56 minutes ago, Trifisherjoe said: "...anything can happen to it to reduce its grade - damage in shipping due to impacts..." Come on! That would never happen! They handle with "care". Your just talking crazy. OUCH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will96 Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 20 hours ago, 42-39-56 said: How do we know some kind of damage even occurred? A book can go from a 9.8 to a 9.6 on a straight resub easily. Such a premium placed on the holy grail 9.8 when the reality is it's a 0 to 10 grading scale and that's a 2 tenths difference. I get the value difference may be big but on a grading scale, it's small. I'm not sure I would ever crack a 9.8.... The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 On 7/31/2020 at 10:52 PM, Evil.C said: “What does CGC actually “guarantee"?” After just a few years here on the boards, I think the general rule is "loads of butt hurt for newbies". Sorry 'bout your luck tho. -bc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
