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What does CGC actually “guarantee”?
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Started by Evil.C,

38 posts in this topic

Keys_Collector

Keys_Collector

Posted
Posted

I stopped reading after a few sentences (I did finish reading the post) and lost interest because of the combination that you are upset over a .2 grade drop after sending a book to be signed and the fact that you have only 1 post which is to complain.  The book is being handled by the artist so anyone sending in a 9.8 shouldn't be shocked to see a .2 grade reduction.  (shrug)

For me, the CGC guarantee is more about making sure the book is non-restored, complete and genuine.  Yes they have made mistakes and yes its not completely necessary but this is about paying for a service.  The signature series is a guarantee that the item is signed by the person.  No other comic book service currently offers a witnessed signature only service which I appreciate and value.  Probably better off not using their service if you have complaints about what their guarantee means.

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Keys_Collector

Keys_Collector

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Posted
8 minutes ago, 42-39-56 said:

And? What does that have to do with anything? Are you saying CBCS' witnessed sig is somehow not as legit as CGC's because CBCS has a separate unwitnessed program? If so that's just ridiculous.

I'm not sure whats so hard to understand here.  CGC is the only comic book company that ONLY offers WITNESSED signatures.  That is what I said originally and you countered that with the CBCS mention which isn't being discussed in this thread about guarantees.  Do I need to type that out 5 more times or do you want to continue to argue with me?

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Keys_Collector

Keys_Collector

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1 minute ago, 42-39-56 said:

I'd love to continue to argue!

So what? This is irrelevant. Some would even consider this a knock on CGC. CGC and CBCS offer the same guarantees and the same exact signature service, that's all you need to know. Both were created by Borock. Obviously you're a CGC homer but I can't take your opinion seriously if you can't be objective.

Isnt this the CGC forums?  Wasnt this thread about the CGC guarantee?  

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Randall Ries

Randall Ries

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Posted

Here is what I do (or don't do):

I have seen enough disparity in professional grading to realize I will not send my raw books in to be graded. 9.0's that look like 6.0's. 6.0's that look like 9.4's. Nah. Not for me. Too ambiguous. Can you say "Toploader"? I can. My collection is mine to do with what I please. So, I could bring a book to a signing, have it signed and know that I was there and the person signing it was actually the person signing it.

If I had  - say - a raw Batman #2 and it was in really nice shape, then yes. It's valuable, it's "rare" and I want it protected so the book can be "retired". I would deal with the assigned grade.

If I have a fantastic looking raw book, why am I going to bring it to CGC or CBCS and chance have it come back as a lousy grade when I know that my grade is more or less accurate and I'm happy with the book? If a grader had a fight with his/her boyfriend/girlfriend/cuckold the night before and he/she didn't get his/her britches tickled, I don't want him/her taking out their problems on my book.

I could post example after example of grading disparity via scans. And NO. I can't see the grader notes but I encourage you to use Green Lantern #76 as your example. Those things are all over the map. The only ones that look accurate are the 9.6's.

Further, if I have a 9.8 graded book I purchased, I am not going to chance having the grade jiggered by a signer who damages it or the grader damages it. In my view, it went in and was graded under the same, assumed "uniform" criteria and got a 9.8. It comes back under the same, assumed "uniform" criteria a 9.4 or 9.6, that means someone wasn't careful and expects me to deal with it when the reality is someone damaged my book. If I need a specific issue signed, I will buy a second high grade raw and be satisfied with the signature and the grade.

OR. I will bring a graded 9.8 to a show and have the artist/writer signed the case and photo them doing it with the serial number well in view in case I want to sell the thing at some later date. But it isn't coming out of the holder.

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William-James88

William-James88

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On 7/31/2020 at 10:52 PM, Evil.C said:

I submitted a comic book for a private signing that had already been graded and slabbed by CGC.  The book was graded at 9.8 in July of 2019.  I sent this book in just a couple of months ago for a private signing and it when it came back, it was regraded at 9.6.  What???  It was sent in still sealed in the CGC slab so CGC removed it from the slab (which they charge a fee to do) for the signing and now it’s a lower grade and there are no grader notes as to why?  So, my question is: what is CGC “guaranteeing”?

The authentication of the signature of course. You weren't there, you didn't see the person signing the book, could have been anyone. But they guarantee to you that it was that specific creator.
Also, CGC really does their best to let you and anyone else know that there is 0 guarantee your book will come back in the same grade. As soon as you select the Signature Series event, this message pops up and they write it in red just to make sure you see it. Had you seen this?
image.thumb.png.b00bd7633ea119dce5eccf52f368fdda.png

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William-James88

William-James88

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Posted (edited)
On 7/31/2020 at 10:52 PM, Evil.C said:

  They “guarantee” nothing else.  They basically even say so on the website.

So you read that they don't guarantee anything and yet are wondering why your grade wasn't guaranteed?

 

Why?

On 8/3/2020 at 7:20 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

Yeesh. I sent in a few books for the Miller signing. Still waiting for grading.

The instances mentioned above, along with my recent grading fiasco where a book had more restoration discovered after resto removal, and I'm lowering my expectations even further.

:facepalm:

Did you write a post about that somewhere? I would love to hear more.

 

Edit: another thing that is very important, it is best to never send in a graded book to CGC for SS Series. The grade isn't guaranteed anyway and you are charged for more people who are not you to handle your comic. It is far more advantageous for you to crack it open at home and for you to make the window bag where you are in full control of the situation. Like that there is less handling. And every bit of handling is an extra chance at losing points on the grade, so it should be minimized at all cost. The ONLY time where it is essential is if you already have a verified signature on it.

Edited by William-James88
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MatterEaterLad

MatterEaterLad

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9 hours ago, William-James88 said:

Did you write a post about that somewhere? I would love to hear more.

I did. Was a C-1 when I bought it. Had the resto removed, but then it came back C-2 as there was more color touch found. Was told that it was originally on the margin between C-1 and C-2, so they knocked it back to a C-1. (shrug)  

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Lightning55

Lightning55

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Posted

Missing from this is "the other side of the coin".  What if CGC DID guarantee that if the book came to them in a slab (9.8, 9.6, whatever), it would get signed, re-holdered, and keep its grade, no matter what?  Now you might end up with a book graded higher than it actually is in reality.  And CGC's reputation rides with that.

If it's for your personal collection, maybe not a big deal.  But someday, those are coming out of your personal collection, unless you are immortal.  Then it's on the open market, over-graded.  Do YOU want to be the person buying a book with an overstated grade?

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ExNihilo

ExNihilo

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The line between 9.6 and 9.8 is so fine at this point, I might as well just buy up 9.6 versions of keys at a discount and re-submit them when grading is less strict.  I still don't even know what qualifies books for a 10.  For example, those thick DC Black Label books that are square bound.  Most of the damage occurs to the binding, but assuming I have sharp corners, I don't even know where they're finding enough to deduct points.  Not only that, but how do they look at the inside without damaging the book.  Surely that would introduce a crease.

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ThothAmon

ThothAmon

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1 hour ago, William-James88 said:

Nope, you can return anything through ebay.

"There is a small crack in the back, it didnt show well in your photos"

Yep. 800 or so CGC slabs sold on eBay. Zero returns. I’ll take those odds (plus an undisclosed defect, like your example, is always returnable).  

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Keys_Collector

Keys_Collector

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Posted
On 8/7/2020 at 3:35 PM, ThothAmon said:

Yep. 800 or so CGC slabs sold on eBay. Zero returns. I’ll take those odds (plus an undisclosed defect, like your example, is always returnable).  

The zero returns is a by product of CGC's grading service but not an actual guarantee by CGC that it is a "final sale".

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