I Never Thought This Would Happen to Me - 9.6 White to 7.5 off-white in 3 months
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Hi everyone; 1st, thank you for any thoughts or suggestions.

I sent in Amazing Spider-Man Annual 15 back in April; grading only. I'm kinda a Punisher nut. Came back as a 9.6 / White pages. 

Then (of course) CGC announced the Frank Miller signing; I sent it back in to be signed by Miller and figured I'd get it pressed and maybe squeeze a 9.8 out of it. I know that doesn't always happen, but why not, right? 

It came up as finalized on the CGC site...7.5 / Off-White pages. WTF? I've heard of that happening, but I've never seen it up close. I tried calling before they shipped it back, but CGC does this amazing thing where they wait until they close to show that your book has been finalized so there's f-all you can do about it. Called the next day got and the "too bad - it happens. We get these calls all the time. Send it back in for a re-grade at your cost, we won't charge you for shipping if we were wrong." Great, now I'm paying for a 3rd grade on, what is now a book valued at $15 dollars. I figured that unless Frank Miller rolled up my comic and used it to swat flies, this is some major BS. I mean, that's a pretty big disparity from from a 9.6 White to a 7.5 Off-White in 3 months. I've sent in a LOT of books, and have never once questioned a grade. 

Anyway, got it back today and it looks EXACTLY the same as when I sent it. Nothing wrong with it. If fact, it looks flatter from the pressing. 

So my question is, how do you get someone to seriously call an audible when there are 2 disparaging grades on one book? I was told to write a note on my submission form for the receiver, but from what I understand, graders are in a bubble. They don't know if a book was pressed so I would imagine they don't know when a grade is being disputed. And at what point does CGC stop being a fat New Yorker cartoon character with a handle-bar mustache wearing a sash that says "CGC", with their hand reaching into my back pocket as I bend over to pick up a graded comic? I mean, sheesh already. And I get it, I get it, I get it; I'm CHOOSING to send my stuff in, they're not forcing me. I'm just frustrated. I mean Miller was $150.00 bucks with the pressing for crying out loud. I'm not trying to go to another grader because frankly, CGC is the only game in town as far as I'm concerned. 

I know they get a LOT of disputes; I get it. I worked in retail and there are WAY to many people with nothing but time to complain, but there's got to be a way for them to legitimize claims, even it's it's doing a cursory look online. 

So, I'm going to send it back, fast track so they've got that $12 bucks out of me. Please take a look at the pics below and tell me if I'm the insane one here. I HAVE legitimate 7.5 books, and THAT is not a 7.5 book. I apologize for the lighting, those are not stains on the back cover, those are shadows (and a hair; caught it after I took the pic.)

Thanks again!

ASMA15Front.jpg

ASMA15Back.jpg

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A couple of thoughts...

1)  Was the book pressed before the signing or after? This could make a difference in the grade, since books can be damaged during the signing process. I know it shouldn't happen, but anytime the book is handled, that possibility exists.

2)  It's possible that the book was seen by different graders the second time around. This could account for the discrepancy, especially if they saw something the first graders missed. Getting the notes could be helpful, because many times the graders will make an effort to show why a book was downgraded.

I'm very sorry this happened to you. I certainly hope this helps, and I wish you the best of luck...  :wishluck:

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30 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

A couple of thoughts...

1)  Was the book pressed before the signing or after? This could make a difference in the grade, since books can be damaged during the signing process. I know it shouldn't happen, but anytime the book is handled, that possibility exists.

2)  It's possible that the book was seen by different graders the second time around. This could account for the discrepancy, especially if they saw something the first graders missed. Getting the notes could be helpful, because many times the graders will make an effort to show why a book was downgraded.

I'm very sorry this happened to you. I certainly hope this helps, and I wish you the best of luck...  :wishluck:

Notes say that there is a 'crease that breaks color on left of back cover' ; that's it. I've looked at this thing under a microscope. I was like Costner looking at the Zapruder film in JFK. "Back and to the left, back and to the left." There is NO crease on this comic. What I'm thinking is that he graded two of the exact same book (Twins, if you will, for the purpose of the upcoming metaphor) and mixed up the grades. I got the Danny DeVito grade on a near perfect book, and some guy with a looking book got the Arnold Schwarzenegger grade:)

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28 minutes ago, Papalsin said:

Notes say that there is a 'crease that breaks color on left of back cover' ; that's it. I've looked at this thing under a microscope. I was like Costner looking at the Zapruder film in JFK. "Back and to the left, back and to the left." There is NO crease on this comic. What I'm thinking is that he graded two of the exact same book (Twins, if you will, for the purpose of the upcoming metaphor) and mixed up the grades. I got the Danny DeVito grade on a near perfect book, and some guy with a looking book got the Arnold Schwarzenegger grade:)

Do you have the original graders notes? Just Curious. 

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29 minutes ago, KCOComics said:

Do you have the original graders notes? Just Curious. 

 

There weren't any notes from the original grade

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There does seem to be color breaking creases on the back cover.  

Perhaps it's just the pictures. Hard to tell without holding them in hand. 

It does seem like a pretty harsh deduction for those creases. My guess is they some how happened between cracking the slab and Frank handling it for the signature.

Regardless, the grade seems harsh and I'm really sorry it work out this way. 

Screenshot_2020-08-01-21-53-19~2.png

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7 hours ago, Papalsin said:

Hi everyone; 1st, thank you for any thoughts or suggestions.

I sent in Amazing Spider-Man Annual 15 back in April; grading only. I'm kinda a Punisher nut. Came back as a 9.6 / White pages. 

Then (of course) CGC announced the Frank Miller signing; I sent it back in to be signed by Miller and figured I'd get it pressed and maybe squeeze a 9.8 out of it. I know that doesn't always happen, but why not, right? 

It came up as finalized on the CGC site...7.5 / Off-White pages. WTF? I've heard of that happening, but I've never seen it up close. I tried calling before they shipped it back, but CGC does this amazing thing where they wait until they close to show that your book has been finalized so there's f-all you can do about it. Called the next day got and the "too bad - it happens. We get these calls all the time. Send it back in for a re-grade at your cost, we won't charge you for shipping if we were wrong." Great, now I'm paying for a 3rd grade on, what is now a book valued at $15 dollars. I figured that unless Frank Miller rolled up my comic and used it to swat flies, this is some major BS. I mean, that's a pretty big disparity from from a 9.6 White to a 7.5 Off-White in 3 months. I've sent in a LOT of books, and have never once questioned a grade. 

Anyway, got it back today and it looks EXACTLY the same as when I sent it. Nothing wrong with it. If fact, it looks flatter from the pressing. 

So my question is, how do you get someone to seriously call an audible when there are 2 disparaging grades on one book? I was told to write a note on my submission form for the receiver, but from what I understand, graders are in a bubble. They don't know if a book was pressed so I would imagine they don't know when a grade is being disputed. And at what point does CGC stop being a fat New Yorker cartoon character with a handle-bar mustache wearing a sash that says "CGC", with their hand reaching into my back pocket as I bend over to pick up a graded comic? I mean, sheesh already. And I get it, I get it, I get it; I'm CHOOSING to send my stuff in, they're not forcing me. I'm just frustrated. I mean Miller was $150.00 bucks with the pressing for crying out loud. I'm not trying to go to another grader because frankly, CGC is the only game in town as far as I'm concerned. 

I know they get a LOT of disputes; I get it. I worked in retail and there are WAY to many people with nothing but time to complain, but there's got to be a way for them to legitimize claims, even it's it's doing a cursory look online. 

So, I'm going to send it back, fast track so they've got that $12 bucks out of me. Please take a look at the pics below and tell me if I'm the insane one here. I HAVE legitimate 7.5 books, and THAT is not a 7.5 book. I apologize for the lighting, those are not stains on the back cover, those are shadows (and a hair; caught it after I took the pic.)

Thanks again!

ASMA15Front.jpg

ASMA15Back.jpg

Are those two small holes just about dead center left to right on the back cover lower margin? 

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Sorry to see this.   It's of no help to you, but it serves as a reminder of what can happen, so thanks for posting your experience.

(By the way, I think you meant to say disparate instead of disparaging.)

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4 minutes ago, EC Star&Bar said:

Sorry to see this.   It's of no help to you, but it serves as a reminder of what can happen, so thanks for posting your experience.

(By the way, I think you meant to say disparate instead of disparaging.)

You're right. My fingers slipped while typing; yeah, that's the ticket; my fingers slipped:)

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8 hours ago, KCOComics said:

There does seem to be color breaking creases on the back cover.  

Perhaps it's just the pictures. Hard to tell without holding them in hand. 

It does seem like a pretty harsh deduction for those creases. My guess is they some how happened between cracking the slab and Frank handling it for the signature.

Regardless, the grade seems harsh and I'm really sorry it work out this way. 

Screenshot_2020-08-01-21-53-19~2.png

Those are actually dog hairs on the case. I've got a mostly white bluetick hound dog. I set the book on the bed after I opened it so it picked up some doggy shrapnel:)

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8 hours ago, KCOComics said:

There does seem to be color breaking creases on the back cover.  

Perhaps it's just the pictures. Hard to tell without holding them in hand. 

It does seem like a pretty harsh deduction for those creases. My guess is they some how happened between cracking the slab and Frank handling it for the signature.

Regardless, the grade seems harsh and I'm really sorry it work out this way. 

Screenshot_2020-08-01-21-53-19~2.png

Like I said, those are dog hairs, BUT while inspecting them, I found the 'crease' mentioned in the grader notes, and it's NOT a crease. It's a 'print ink crease' in the ink, not on the book itself. You can tell because it doesn't run the length of the book into the white areas where there is no ink. And even if it was, 7.5 for that ONLY? Still some BS. It's boxed up and going in the mail on Monday. We'll see what they say. Hopefully it doesn't come back as a 5.5 now. 

 

 

ASMC.jpg

ASMC2.jpg

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1 hour ago, Papalsin said:

Those are actually dog hairs on the case. I've got a mostly white bluetick hound dog. I set the book on the bed after I opened it so it picked up some doggy shrapnel:)

Got it. 

As someone mentioned, send it in with a thorough lettet. If you have pictures of it in the 9.6 holder, give them those as well. 

Good luck! 

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1 hour ago, Papalsin said:

Like I said, those are dog hairs, BUT while inspecting them, I found the 'crease' mentioned in the grader notes, and it's NOT a crease. It's a 'print ink crease' in the ink, not on the book itself. You can tell because it doesn't run the length of the book into the white areas where there is no ink. And even if it was, 7.5 for that ONLY? Still some BS. It's boxed up and going in the mail on Monday. We'll see what they say. Hopefully it doesn't come back as a 5.5 now. 

I am sorry for your loss, but a crease like that one (which breaks color) will take an otherwise Near Mint book down into the VF range. Also, the length of the crease is another factor (it appears to be at least 2" long). And to me, it doesn't appear to be a "print ink crease" (a manufacturing defect caused by a wrinkle in the paper) given the location and the characteristics it exhibits.

Given these circumstances, I would advise you to not bother sending this book back in. It was obviously missed the first time around. As the saying goes, "it is what it is."  :foryou:

 

 

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"...What I'm thinking is that he graded two of the exact same book (Twins, if you will, for the purpose of the upcoming metaphor) and mixed up the grades..." I want to hear from the guy who sent in a 7.5 to be signed and got a 9.8 back! My only other thought was Miller had to use the can ,and didn't have anything to read...your book was on the top of the stack of comics....

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I'm sorry this happened.

I hate to say it, but CGC seems to respond to problems and errors based on the value of the book. 

Have a problem with a book that's valued $200 and they're "meh."

Have a problem with a book that's valued $20,000 and they're "Here's postage, please send it back and we'll take a look."

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That’s definitely a crease on that back cover. No denying it.

If it was missed originally, that’s bad. If they caused it, that’s bad. And if somehow your copy was switched with this copy by accident, that’s also bad. 

Bad all around really. Yet another one for me to file away in the “why I don’t grade” file....

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Yeah,  this situation stinks. 

Try to be positive I guess. You got a Miller signature on a book that looks gorgous.

The damage is where you want it. On the back cover. 

Still pretty disappointing! 

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4 hours ago, october said:

Yeah, that's not a printing defect,  it's damage. Guessing it happened during the signing, maybe the corner folded over on the back by mistake. No way CGC missed that the first time.

That sucks. :(

The idea it got folded over at the signing or along the way occurred to me as well as a very likely possilbility.

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