I Never Thought This Would Happen to Me - 9.6 White to 7.5 off-white in 3 months 0

[The Lions Den]

4 hours ago, october said:

Yeah, that's not a printing defect,  it's damage. Guessing it happened during the signing, maybe the corner folded over on the back by mistake. No way CGC missed that the first time.

That sucks.

I would prefer to think they missed it rather than think the book was damaged during the signing and no one notified the owner...

[joeypost]

Do you have scans of the book in the old 9.6 holder?

[Lazyboy]

5 hours ago, oldrover said:

Doesn't this belong in the Penthouse Letters forum?

Unfortunately, this is a completely different kind of getting screwed.

[Tony S]

11 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

I am sorry for your loss, but a crease like that one (which breaks color) will take an otherwise Near Mint book down into the VF range. Also, the length of the crease is another factor (it appears to be at least 2" long). And to me, it doesn't appear to be a "print ink crease" (a manufacturing defect caused by a wrinkle in the paper) given the location and the characteristics it exhibits.

Given these circumstances, I would advise you to not bother sending this book back in. It was obviously missed the first time around. As the saying goes, "it is what it is."  

 

 

 

9 hours ago, october said:

Yeah, that's not a printing defect,  it's damage. Guessing it happened during the signing, maybe the corner folded over on the back by mistake. No way CGC missed that the first time.

That sucks.

What The Lion's Den and October said. A long color breaking crease is going to make you VF range, automatic, by itself.  Keep in mind that white is the complete absence of color. So in the white areas (margins) of the cover it is going to be far more difficult - maybe even impossible slabbed - to see the crease in the white areas. 

Somewhere along the process, the back cover got folded at the bottom corner. Or the book was very overgraded to begin with. Which can also happen.  

There is also a line (crease, tear?) at the top of the back cover near the spine.  

No reason to send this book back in. Improvement in grade unlikely 

Edited August 2, 2020 by Tony S

[1950's war comics]

8 hours ago, comicginger1789 said:

That’s definitely a crease on that back cover. No denying it.

If it was missed originally, that’s bad. If they caused it, that’s bad. And if somehow your copy was switched with this copy by accident, that’s also bad. 

Bad all around really. Yet another one for me to file away in the “why I don’t grade” file....

thats why i only collect vg/fine CGC books, my highest graded is an 8.0 and that was just luck ,,, i have no use for a 9.0-9.8 anything

[The-Collector]

18 hours ago, Papalsin said:

Like I said, those are dog hairs, BUT while inspecting them, I found the 'crease' mentioned in the grader notes, and it's NOT a crease. It's a 'print ink crease' in the ink, not on the book itself. You can tell because it doesn't run the length of the book into the white areas where there is no ink. And even if it was, 7.5 for that ONLY? Still some BS. It's boxed up and going in the mail on Monday. We'll see what they say. Hopefully it doesn't come back as a 5.5 now. 

 

 

This is not a printer's crease. 

[William-James88]

 

On 8/2/2020 at 6:28 AM, Papalsin said:

Like I said, those are dog hairs, BUT while inspecting them, I found the 'crease' mentioned in the grader notes, and it's NOT a crease. It's a 'print ink crease' in the ink, not on the book itself. You can tell because it doesn't run the length of the book into the white areas where there is no ink. And even if it was, 7.5 for that ONLY? Still some BS. It's boxed up and going in the mail on Monday. We'll see what they say. Hopefully it doesn't come back as a 5.5 now. 

 

 

It is 100% a crease. Yo can tell due to the fibers. If it was a printer's crease, it would be uniform, not jagged. Further more, that looks exactly like what you get when you flatten a crease with a press. When a crease shares the same colour as the paper it's on, a press makes it vanish and only leaves the trace on the part where it is not the same colour.

Your book is a text book example of that. 

Now is the grading accurate? Yes, 100%. A crease that big can never be an 8.0, so you were given the best grade it could obtain.

The big question is this: Did this book originally look like this and the crease was not found out until later OR did the crease happen while in their care?

A picture of the back of the original slab would solve that right away. However, I go with the most logical explanation and say that it happened in their care this time around. A crease like that would have left an obvious mark when it was first formed and you did not mention this book being pressed before. So since this is a pressed crease, and your book was only pressed after the signing (this is my assumption, please correct me otherwise) then that's the only time you could have gotten this result. It was creased at some point during the handling (most probably when it was put into the window bag, that's where this could happen) and then the creas was pressed, leaving only the parts that break colour.

That's why I would advise to never send in CGC'd books for SS series. The grade isn't guaranteed anyway and you are charged for more people who are not you to handle your comic. It is far more advantageous for you to crack it open at home and for you to make the window bag where you are in full control of the situation. Like that there is less handling. And every bit of handling is an extra chance at losing points on the grade, so it should be minimized at all cost.

It would have been best you wrote to us before you sent it back since it will come back as a 7.5 again (well, it should).

[Motor City Rob]

If the book was in a bag/board with a specific signing window cut out, then it couldn't have been folded over during the signing. Maybe during grading. Regardless, 7.5 seems accurate. Pictures of the book in original holder would be helpful.

[William-James88]

17 hours ago, Motor City Rob said:

If the book was in a bag/board with a specific signing window cut out, then it couldn't have been folded over during the signing. 

The op sent the book in slabbed, not in a window bag. So it could have happenned at any point after they cracked it open.

[Motor City Rob]

18 hours ago, William-James88 said:

The op sent the book in slabbed, not in a window bag. So it could have happenned at any point after they cracked it open.

Where does op state they sent it in slabbed? I could have missed that but I don't think so. Regardless, op also stated the book still looks perfect and there's a huge crease in the book visible to everyone else in the world. OP has also stopped responding. Hope things work out for op.

[joeypost]

It would also make sense that a fold that large, that resulted in that much color loss, would not lay that flat on its own. 

 

[William-James88]

On 8/8/2020 at 11:34 AM, joeypost said:

It would also make sense that a fold that large, that resulted in that much color loss, would not lay that flat on its own. 

 

Yes, that's why I am certain this happenned when the op sent it in for the signing. They pressed it after it happened which is why it looked the same to the op when he got it back and it took him posting it here to notice something was wrong after all. 

@Papalsin can you confirm that you sent it in still slabbed for this signing?

[Papalsin]

It was not pressed the 1st time. It was pressed when I sent it back for SS; I have books that look way worse than this at a 7.5. That said, I'm not screaming about it. I trust CGC's judgment 99% of the time. They'll get it back this week and if it it remains a 7.5, so be it. That crease, IF its a legitimate crease, is WAY blown up. Its small. I just don't think that alone should put it at a 7.5. But I could be wrong. I'll keep everyone posted when the regrade is finalized. Thanks for all you input:)

 

[shadroch]

Now you have a kool story to tell about how Frank Miller screwed up a book you sent in to have signed.  That's priceless.

[Xenosmilus]

A similar thing happened to me when I got something reholdered. LUCKILY I had HD scans of the back cover before I sent it in.  It was definitely damaged at CGC and I was pretty upset because it was an early bronze age Don Rosa Pedigree (MTU #12 CGC 9.8). They were able to press it out though and it got the same grade but it was disconcerting to say the lest. It was a massive pain too (lots of phone calls and emails).

Edited August 10, 2020 by Xenosmilus

[Varanis]

22 hours ago, Papalsin said:

It was not pressed the 1st time. It was pressed when I sent it back for SS; I have books that look way worse than this at a 7.5. That said, I'm not screaming about it. I trust CGC's judgment 99% of the time. They'll get it back this week and if it it remains a 7.5, so be it. That crease, IF its a legitimate crease, is WAY blown up. Its small. I just don't think that alone should put it at a 7.5. But I could be wrong. I'll keep everyone posted when the regrade is finalized. Thanks for all you input:)

 

Based on others' comments, it sounds like it may be best to approach CGC about this apparently being damaged during the signing process rather than trying to improve the grade. I'm not familiar with all the details of grading, but multiple folks seem to agree a 7.5 is right for this even if it isn't the most obvious defect.

[Papalsin]

23 hours ago, William-James88 said:

Yes, that's why I am certain this happenned when the op sent it in for the signing. They pressed it after it happened which is why it looked the same to the op when he got it back and it took him posting it here to notice something was wrong after all. 

@Papalsin can you confirm that you sent it in still slabbed for this signing?

I did send it in slabbed at a 9.6. 

[Keys_Collector]

Another "i'm upset my book returned a lower grade after it got signed"...If you are so happy with the grade then maybe don't get the book signed 

Cracking a slab to add a signature is opening the doors to a regrade at a lower grade and potential damage from artists that don't care how they handle the book.  Contrary to some folks belief, a pressing doesn't automatically guarantee a bump in grading.

[SkOw]

On 8/2/2020 at 6:28 AM, Papalsin said:

Like I said, those are dog hairs, BUT while inspecting them, I found the 'crease' mentioned in the grader notes, and it's NOT a crease. It's a 'print ink crease' in the ink, not on the book itself. You can tell because it doesn't run the length of the book into the white areas where there is no ink. And even if it was, 7.5 for that ONLY? Still some BS. It's boxed up and going in the mail on Monday. We'll see what they say. Hopefully it doesn't come back as a 5.5 now. 

 

 

I am really sorry that this happened, it really sucks, but I have to admit that I almost spit my coffee out at that 5.5 comment.  That's some funny stuff! 

[Buzzetta]

I have always learned from these threads to scan both front and back before I send a book in.