Registered Mail Not As Great As Generally Believed. 0

[rumrunner71]

This is not at all to deny the problems with the USPS. I posted elsewhere just some of my more recent frustrations, and I wish you luck with yours. This is solely in response to the question, "what are we paying for?" with registered mail.

Admittedly, this was sometime ago, but in college, I worked for a company that loaded mail for USPS, FedEx, and UPS on to planes for delivery. On the USPS shift, we would receive 2-4 semi trucks a night loaded with carts of mail to then reload into bins that would go on the planes. Usually the mail was in bags grouped by airport, so we just sorted it, tossed it in the bins, etc. We weren't intentionally rough with packages, but yeah, things fell, and the bags provided no protection. Hardly ever saw a driver or any USPS employees.

Registered mail was different. When registered mail was on the truck, the gate of the trailer was locked and clipped with a plastic tag. (Most trucks we received weren't even locked.) A USPS employee who was following the truck to our warehouse had to cut the plastic tag and log the time he did it, and keep the tab to turn in later. We weren't allowed to touch that tag or lock.

The registered mail itself was in a hard plastic red case, and for sure, that employee watched us the entire time load the case into one of the bins, then instead of letting us fill the bin up, which we would normally do, we had to lock it up, and he would put one of those plastic tags through the lock again and record all the times in a log book. Then, he waited til the bin itself got transferred put to the tarmac and loaded on the plane, again recording everything in a log book.

I'm not saying that stuff doesn't get lost or other problems or that complaints with USPS are unjustified. Just trying to help share what I saw about the difference between regular priority (what we usually shipped) and registered. With priority, there was very little oversight or protection for packages. The only safety was how well you packed your stuff. With registered, that red case was never out of view of a guy whose sole job it was to make sure it got where it needed to go. That's what the cost is for - and what makes it so frustrating that something still got lost.

Edited August 3, 2020 by rumrunner71

[JollyComics]

16 hours ago, Dr. Love said:

Private insurance (Collectibles) and FedEx is the way to go.  At least Collectibles will pay out - certainly on the first claim, and maybe beyond that.  Anecdotal evidence is thin beyond the first claim.

CGC will ship via Fedex - I have a private account and specify that they use it, and they do.  CGC will not allow FedEx shipments to be redirected in CA.  When things are going bad with a delivery I've had great service from FedEx once I escalate to management.  I keep my temper, get a name and call back number, and become the squeaky wheel.

Signature service is either hit or miss or just miss right now.

 

I avoid the delivery at home so I have used my FedEx location as the delivery route so I can pick it up at anytime without worrying about the hit or miss.

[JollyComics]

7 hours ago, www.alexgross.com said:

this may be too late to be useful, but i had a registered mail package stolen around 7-8 years ago after my mail carrier forged my signature and left it in my mailbox while i was on vacation. when i filed a claim it was denied too because usps showed as delivered and signed for. 

ultimately after my appeal was also denied i was able to contact the postmaster inspector general. they got on the case and got it taken care of. they seem to be the ones with power there when they screw up on a high level such as this. if you get ahold of their office they may be more responsive than what you've had so far. any with all the drama there right now, probably not.  sorry for your loss- 

Did the mail carrier lose the job because of a forgery or careless?

[kav]

9 minutes ago, JollyComics said:

I avoid the delivery at home so I have used my FedEx location as the delivery route so I can pick it up at anytime without worrying about the hit or miss.

Apparently shipping to a business address is safer as they have to come back and hand mail to an actual person.  Not clear on the exact details but thats what my comic shop buddy told me.

Edited August 3, 2020 by kav

[alexgross.com]

5 minutes ago, JollyComics said:

Did the mail carrier lose the job because of a forgery or careless?

he never did my route again. i was led to beleive he was reassigned to hopefully avoid firing, but i dont really know the outcome. i liked him and i dont for a second think he stole anything. he was just trying to save me a trip to the post office. but theives hit my box that weekend and the package had contained a gold coin worth about 3k from cgc's sister company, ngc. took me 6 months to get reimbursed, but not for the grading fees. 

[JollyComics]

6 minutes ago, www.alexgross.com said:

he never did my route again. i was led to beleive he was reassigned to hopefully avoid firing, but i dont really know the outcome. i liked him and i dont for a second think he stole anything. he was just trying to save me a trip to the post office. but theives hit my box that weekend and the package had contained a gold coin worth about 3k from cgc's sister company, ngc. took me 6 months to get reimbursed, but not for the grading fees. 

It was a bad mistake.  Probably, it will never happen again.  I keep getting the note that I have missed the delivery but I feel safer when the package is at their hands rather than thieves' hands.

[JollyComics]

24 minutes ago, kav said:

Apparently shipping to a business address is safer as they have to come back and hand mail to an actual person.  Not clear on the exact details but thats what my comic shop buddy told me.

Every time, I get an email, text message or call.  Otherwise, I have the tracking number and get the email notification.  Whenever the package is ready to be picked up, I show my ID and they release packages to me.  Much safer to do that.

[F For Fake]

2 hours ago, Joe Ankenbauer said:

This is not necessarily true. I sold Bart Simpson Comics #1 - #100, Simpsons Summer Shindig #1 - #9, and Simpsons Winter Wingdings #1 - #9 for $275 on Ebay. One box did not arrive. I refunded the buyer $92, and then I filed the claim for that amount with the post office. In less than ten days, I received a check for $101, which was the $92 claim and a $9 refund on the shipping.

My guess is that the Post Office figured it was not worth quibbling over $100, so they just paid the claim. However, I'm sure the result would have been different had the package contained Amazing Spider-Man #1, and the claim amount was $6500+. I absolutely could not provide any documentation. I purchased it over 40 years ago from a guy in Des Moines, IA, for $300 cash. He certainly did not give me a receipt, but even if he had, and had I kept it, it would not be fair to claim that the refund should only be $300.

Maybe if this situation happens to a wealthy individual, perhaps he could sue the Post Office. It's not like their are numerous frivolous lawsuits filed every day (such as governors suing mayors for requiring masks in their city). If you put this type of evidence in front of a judge, who knows what the result would be.

I will say, the two claims I've filed were both paid by USPS. But they were small potatoes. One was a $50 lot of action figures that just got lost in the system, never showed up. I had to refund the buyer myself, but then USPS reimbursed me.

The other was a Sideshow Statue that I sold for about $700 IIRC. USPS just absolutely shattered the thing. Same situation, I had to refund the buyer, but USPS did eventually pay me for the whole thing, after a week or so of going round and round with the local branch. I had to print off records of the sale from eBay and that sort of stuff, no major hassle. Wasn't a pain free process, but it did ultimately work out.

Again, it's all very inconvenient. I hope that it all works out.

[Gaard]

I've never had to file a claim so I can't speak to that. The only thing I've noticed is it seems to be getting slower and slower, but with everything going on out there it doesn't really bother me.

What is very frustrating, however, is incompetent employees at the post office (not just during Covid, either). Whenever I go to pick up a CGC package (because I have a 9-5 and I'm never home when the carrier comes), I wait till my turn at the head of line & hand the person my 'pick up' ticket that the carrier leaves. Usually, the person will go to look for it & come back 5-10 minutes later with "Yeah, I can't find it. Come back tomorrow."To which I'll reply, "Did you check the safe? Because that's where it's been the other 5 billion times I've come here." They'll go look, & come back less than a minute later carrying the box

Also, please get to know your carrier. Shoot the shiite with him/her on occasion. He'll go the extra mile for you if he knows you. I've had my carrier pull up multiple times late afternoon because he knows I work late "and just wanted to try you again before I went in, and save you a trip to the post office." And please, for the love of all that's holy, tip him well during the holidays.

And just curious Tony. What's protocol if the PO pays out & then they later find the package? Does the person have the choice of paying the PO back and taking the box?

[jeffreyk]

If a seller sells a book, say for $500, on Ebay and it gets lost by USPS during shipping, would the USPS accept the price it was sold for on Ebay as the value of the book as it would have been insured for $500 and the closed Ebay sales listing can be given to them to prove the price it sold for?

[Tony S]

2 hours ago, rumrunner71 said:

This is not at all to deny the problems with the USPS. I posted elsewhere just some of my more recent frustrations, and I wish you luck with yours. This is solely in response to the question, "what are we paying for?" with registered mail.

Admittedly, this was sometime ago, but in college, I worked for a company that loaded mail for USPS, FedEx, and UPS on to planes for delivery. On the USPS shift, we would receive 2-4 semi trucks a night loaded with carts of mail to then reload into bins that would go on the planes. Usually the mail was in bags grouped by airport, so we just sorted it, tossed it in the bins, etc. We weren't intentionally rough with packages, but yeah, things fell, and the bags provided no protection. Hardly ever saw a driver or any USPS employees.

Registered mail was different. When registered mail was on the truck, the gate of the trailer was locked and clipped with a plastic tag. (Most trucks we received weren't even locked.) A USPS employee who was following the truck to our warehouse had to cut the plastic tag and log the time he did it, and keep the tab to turn in later. We weren't allowed to touch that tag or lock.

The registered mail itself was in a hard plastic red case, and for sure, that employee watched us the entire time load the case into one of the bins, then instead of letting us fill the bin up, which we would normally do, we had to lock it up, and he would put one of those plastic tags through the lock again and record all the times in a log book. Then, he waited til the bin itself got transferred put to the tarmac and loaded on the plane, again recording everything in a log book.

I'm not saying that stuff doesn't get lost or other problems or that complaints with USPS are unjustified. Just trying to help share what I saw about the difference between regular priority (what we usually shipped) and registered. With priority, there was very little oversight or protection for packages. The only safety was how well you packed your stuff. With registered, that red case was never out of view of a guy whose sole job it was to make sure it got where it needed to go. That's what the cost is for - and what makes it so frustrating that something still got lost.

What you describe is how it is supposed to work, along with requiring a signature on delivery. Showing ID if the carrier/clerk doesn't know you when delivered.  I have told others - in the past - much the same thing you have said above when they ask about how to ship valuable comic books. 

If Registered mail is handled the way it is supposed to be, getting lost should be nearly impossible.Getting damaged rare.  Which is why they will sell up to $50K of insurance on a package. 

Nearly impossible is not 100% impossible, As they say, you can't make things foolproof because fools are clever and creative. So I get it that even registered mail can go missing. What grinds my gears is USPS not paying the claim. USPS knew it was CGC graded, collectible comic books when they took the package. They collected the postage, registered mail and insurance fees. They can't find the package. At least pay the claim.   

41 minutes ago, Gaard said:

I've never had to file a claim so I can't speak to that. The only thing I've noticed is it seems to be getting slower and slower, but with everything going on out there it doesn't really bother me.

What is very frustrating, however, is incompetent employees at the post office (not just during Covid, either). Whenever I go to pick up a CGC package (because I have a 9-5 and I'm never home when the carrier comes), I wait till my turn at the head of line & hand the person my 'pick up' ticket that the carrier leaves. Usually, the person will go to look for it & come back 5-10 minutes later with "Yeah, I can't find it. Come back tomorrow."To which I'll reply, "Did you check the safe? Because that's where it's been the other 5 billion times I've come here." They'll go look, & come back less than a minute later carrying the box

Also, please get to know your carrier. Shoot the shiite with him/her on occasion. He'll go the extra mile for you if he knows you. I've had my carrier pull up multiple times late afternoon because he knows I work late "and just wanted to try you again before I went in, and save you a trip to the post office." And please, for the love of all that's holy, tip him well during the holidays.

And just curious Tony. What's protocol if the PO pays out & then they later find the package? Does the person have the choice of paying the PO back and taking the box?

"Never had to file a claim". Yeah. I've only filed one with USPS before in decades of shipping stuff.  USPS's tracking isn't the best but delivery wise it has for me been great. My real beef here is USPS not wanting to pay the claim. Essentially because the value claimed is based on collector value. 

"Check the Safe". Yes, this happens regularly. A few times I've had the misfortune of going to pick up registered mail when the only person with a key to the lock up was at lunch.. 

"Get to know your carrier". PREACH BABY!  i work hard at developing a relationship with my carrier and counter clerks at my PO branch. 

"What's the protocol if...."  No idea. 

[oldbsturgeon]

While the local PO doesn’t owe me anything I did outfit the entire back sorting floor with new super duty pressure reliefs mats as the PO didn’t have the budget for it.

so they are pretty nice to me and I can get some real answers if I need them 

[kav]

2 hours ago, Gaard said:

I've never had to file a claim so I can't speak to that. The only thing I've noticed is it seems to be getting slower and slower, but with everything going on out there it doesn't really bother me.

What is very frustrating, however, is incompetent employees at the post office (not just during Covid, either). Whenever I go to pick up a CGC package (because I have a 9-5 and I'm never home when the carrier comes), I wait till my turn at the head of line & hand the person my 'pick up' ticket that the carrier leaves. Usually, the person will go to look for it & come back 5-10 minutes later with "Yeah, I can't find it. Come back tomorrow."To which I'll reply, "Did you check the safe? Because that's where it's been the other 5 billion times I've come here." They'll go look, & come back less than a minute later carrying the box

Also, please get to know your carrier. Shoot the shiite with him/her on occasion. He'll go the extra mile for you if he knows you. I've had my carrier pull up multiple times late afternoon because he knows I work late "and just wanted to try you again before I went in, and save you a trip to the post office." And please, for the love of all that's holy, tip him well during the holidays.

And just curious Tony. What's protocol if the PO pays out & then they later find the package? Does the person have the choice of paying the PO back and taking the box?

Most employees are what I call 'donut eaters'.  Their only concern while at work is whether there are donuts in the break room.  They could give 2 ***** about anything else.

[rumrunner71]

1 hour ago, Tony S said:

What you describe is how it is supposed to work, along with requiring a signature on delivery. Showing ID if the carrier/clerk doesn't know you when delivered.  I have told others - in the past - much the same thing you have said above when they ask about how to ship valuable comic books. 

If Registered mail is handled the way it is supposed to be, getting lost should be nearly impossible.Getting damaged rare.  Which is why they will sell up to $50K of insurance on a package. 

Nearly impossible is not 100% impossible, As they say, you can't make things foolproof because fools are clever and creative. So I get it that even registered mail can go missing. What grinds my gears is USPS not paying the claim. USPS knew it was CGC graded, collectible comic books when they took the package. They collected the postage, registered mail and insurance fees. They can't find the package. At least pay the claim.   

 

Yes, that's how it's supposed to work, but you're right, that doesn't mean it always goes that way. And not paying the claim is just outrageous, especially with the cost. With some of my insured shipments, they haven't paid the claim because it's still "in transit" - 3 weeks after it was shipped. smdh

Good luck. USPS is a monstrosity to deal with, and it sucks having to go through this with them.

[kav]

I always wondered why the post office was in financial straights when the amount of online shopping has exploded-I just heard that the post office actually loses money on every package it delivers-the more packages, the deeper in hole they sink.  this is incredible to me.

[gadzukes]

I had an AF15 being shipped to me "registered" about 8 years ago (at the time maybe a $6000 comic).

I was checking the delivery status daily to watch the slow but steady progress the package was making.

One morning when I checked the status it showed it had been delivered.  It had NOT!

I brought my problem up on the boards and a boardie who worked for the PO said if I gave him the confirmation number that he would be able to get me a scan of the actual signature (CGC boardies ROCK!!!!).  

I got the scan.  The signature was not a forgery of my name (which is what I thought I'd see), it was a regular signature of a person who I don't know.

I got on the phone with my PO and demanded to talk to the manager.  I explained the situation.  She said to give her a few minutes to make some inquiries and she'd call me back.

5 minutes later she calls.  She's apologetic and somewhat distressed.  She tells me that they had a "substitute" delivering on the route that day and the sub delivered it to the wrong house.  She says the sub knows what house it was delivered to, and that she personally (the manager) was going to drive to the house herself to get it.

30 minutes later my doorbell rings and the manager gives me my package (with many more apologies).

I got lucky.... thank God the person who signed for it didn't open the package.

Now I always make friends with my carriers.  We exchange cel phone numbers, etc.... they tell me when they're going on vacations, when subs will be on the routes, etc... all good info to have.

My carrier tells me ALL the mistakes seem to happen when substitutes are on the routes.  I asked if the sub got fired that mishandled my registered package.  Nope.... the PO is so hard up for workers that you can screw things up bad and they still wont fire you.

Edited August 4, 2020 by gadzukes

[kav]

10 minutes ago, gadzukes said:

I had an AF15 being shipped to me "registered" about 8 years ago (at the time maybe a $6000 comic).

I was checking the delivery status daily to watch the slow but steady progress the package was making.

One morning when I checked the status it showed it had been delivered.  It had NOT!

I brought my problem up on the boards and a boardie who worked for the PO said if I gave him the confirmation number that he would be able to get me a scan of the actual signature (CGC boardies ROCK!!!!).  

I got the scan.  The signature was not a forgery of my name (which is what I thought I'd see), it was a regular signature of a person who I don't know.

I got on the phone with my PO and demanded to talk to the manager.  I explained the situation.  She said to give her a few minutes to make some inquiries and she'd call me back.

5 minutes later she calls.  She's apologetic and somewhat distressed.  She tells me that they had a "substitute" delivering on the route that day and the sub delivered it to the wrong house.  She says the sub knows what house it was delivered to, and that she personally (the manager) was going to drive to the house herself to get it.

30 minutes later my doorbell rings and the manager gives me my package (with many more apologies).

I got lucky.... thank God the person who signed for it didn't open the package.

Now I always make friends with my carriers.  We exchange cel phone numbers, etc.... they tell me when they're going on vacations, when subs will be on the routes, etc... all good info to have.

My carrier tells me ALL the mistakes seem to happen when substitutes are on the routes.  I asked if the sub got fired that mishandled my registered package.  Nope.... the PO is so hard up for workers that you can screw things up bad and they still wont fire you.

I read once never buy a car built on a mon or friday as people call in sick those days and subs are brought in to work their line.

[Tony S]

1 hour ago, gadzukes said:

I had an AF15 being shipped to me "registered" about 8 years ago (at the time maybe a $6000 comic).

I was checking the delivery status daily to watch the slow but steady progress the package was making.

One morning when I checked the status it showed it had been delivered.  It had NOT!

I brought my problem up on the boards and a boardie who worked for the PO said if I gave him the confirmation number that he would be able to get me a scan of the actual signature (CGC boardies ROCK!!!!).  

I got the scan.  The signature was not a forgery of my name (which is what I thought I'd see), it was a regular signature of a person who I don't know.

I got on the phone with my PO and demanded to talk to the manager.  I explained the situation.  She said to give her a few minutes to make some inquiries and she'd call me back.

5 minutes later she calls.  She's apologetic and somewhat distressed.  She tells me that they had a "substitute" delivering on the route that day and the sub delivered it to the wrong house.  She says the sub knows what house it was delivered to, and that she personally (the manager) was going to drive to the house herself to get it.

30 minutes later my doorbell rings and the manager gives me my package (with many more apologies).

I got lucky.... thank God the person who signed for it didn't open the package.

Now I always make friends with my carriers.  We exchange cel phone numbers, etc.... they tell me when they're going on vacations, when subs will be on the routes, etc... all good info to have.

My carrier tells me ALL the mistakes seem to happen when substitutes are on the routes.  I asked if the sub got fired that mishandled my registered package.  Nope.... the PO is so hard up for workers that you can screw things up bad and they still wont fire you.

Sad how things have changed over eight years. Try getting anyone to answer the phone at the actual PO branch today.  The only number published is the 1-800 number. And even the people working the call center can't get anyone at the local PO Branches to answer the phone. 

I've been able to talk to branch staff in the past - including managers. But I do it by going in, asking and telling them I'll wait until the manager comes out to speak to me.

I understand mistakes can happen. This Christmas we ordered a rowing machine via Amazon.  UPS delivery.  We were watching tracking and it said it was out for delivery - then said delivered! We had watched the UPS truck drive down the street. Except we didn't have a big arse six foot tall 100 pound package on our porch.  I immediately walked our block and found our package three doors down on a neighbors porch.  I grabbed it and dragged back to my house. So yes, mistakes happen. PAY THE INSURANCE CLAIM if that happens. 

I'm glad you got your book delivered to you.... 

[Tony S]

3 hours ago, kav said:

I always wondered why the post office was in financial straights when the amount of online shopping has exploded-I just heard that the post office actually loses money on every package it delivers-the more packages, the deeper in hole they sink.  this is incredible to me.

This is almost certainly not true. It's actually against the law for the USPS to enter into a shipping contract where they loose money.  USPS is loosing money due to the continuing decrease of people using first class mail to send letters and the Congressional mandate to forward -fund their pension system over a 10 year period. 

A lot of noise is made about the Amazon contract. But Amazon is a unique beast.  They have 75 (Edit:over 100 in America) Regional Distribution Centers in North America. So when the USPS gets packages, those packages  don't have to travel far. 

All that said, certainly it's being looked into. The Treasury is loaning USPS enough money to operate for a year.  But they wanted to see their sealed contracts with big accounts for this loan. No doubt to see if USPS is in fact charging too little on package delivery and thus loosing money. 

We are not supposed to get political here and some consider fact checking sites to be political (I do not) But if you Google this you'll fine multiple sites disputing the idea that the USPS looses money on package delivery. Instead it is one of the few bright spots in their financial reports. It's a growing business for them

Edited August 4, 2020 by Tony S

[kav]

5 minutes ago, Tony S said:

This is almost certainly not true. It's actually against the law for the USPS to enter into a shipping contract where they loose money.  USPS is loosing money due to the continuing decrease of people using first class mail to send letters and the Congressional mandate to forward -fund their pension system over a 10 year period. 

A lot of noise is made about the Amazon contract. But Amazon is a unique beast.  They have 75 Regional Distribution Centers in North America. So when the USPS gets packages, those packages  don't have to travel far. 

All that said, certainly it's being looked into. The Treasury is loaning USPS enough money to operate for a year.  But they wanted to see their sealed contracts with big accounts for this loan. No doubt to see if USPS is in fact charging too little on package delivery and thus loosing money. 

We are not supposed to get political here and some consider fact checking sites to be political (I do not) But if you Google this you'll fine multiple sites disputing the idea that the USPS looses money on package delivery. Instead it is one of the few bright spots in their financial reports. It's a growing business for them

Thx.  Now I'm trying to remember where it heard it-it was only recently.  Ps "Loses"