CBCS CAME BACK A WHOLE GRADE LOWER 2 2

[rjpb]

On 8/20/2020 at 5:43 PM, Randall Dowling said:

 

The whole range from 4.0 to 7.0 is kind of a mess from CGC (and the other company as well).  I've seen a CGC 7.0 that looked super ugly and was less desirable than another copy that was graded a 4.0 by the other company (guess which one I purchased).  To the OP- I think you should stop buying and selling based on the number and start buying the book inside instead.  And when you play the CPR game, you get what you get.  

Usually when a 4.0 looks better than a 7.0, it's because the 4.0 has some hard to see in the slab flaw, like a spine split or detached cover, and the 7.0 has ugly foxing, or a dust shadow,  or a weak color strike, or transfer staining or the some combination thereof.  The grades may be more or less accurate by hobby standards, but eye-appeal will frequently win out with the collector who looks beyond the grade. 

[Qalyar]

14 minutes ago, rjpb said:

Usually when a 4.0 looks better than a 7.0, it's because the 4.0 has some hard to see in the slab flaw, like a spine split or detached cover, and the 7.0 has ugly foxing, or a dust shadow,  or a weak color strike, or transfer staining or the some combination thereof.  The grades may be more or less accurate by hobby standards, but eye-appeal will frequently win out with the collector who looks beyond the grade. 

There are obviously bad grades sometimes, but this is the reason behind the majority of issues. Technical grade is not, and is not intended to be, a measure of visual appeal.

[TC33]

Based on my recent experiences, I wonder if CBCS was more consistent in their grading at 6.0 and no that 4.0 on a 2.0+/- range book does not surprise me at all based on what I have seen.  CGC has so many graders, the grades are widely different depending on who is grading.  I just re-sent CGC an Avengers 55 8.5 that I had hoped would get a 9.0 after pressing, sent the original label and everything stating that if it did not get at least the same grade, leave it raw and send it back with the label.  Guess what, they graded it a 6.5 and did not even send me back my original 8.5 label.  That is a full 2 grades lower than the first grading with the label included with the book and request it not be graded if not at least the same grade as prior.  I have seen the reverse as well with 8.0 range looking books getting 9.0/9.2 grades.  I also requested a green label for a valuable golden age book missing the centerfold and it came back blue label .5 even though I requested green label only.   Same batch of books had a high dollar pro resto book from a store remainder copy(missing top 1/3rd strip) that had the top professionally recreated and a ton of color touch on the rest as it was in bad shape.  They did a horrible rush job grading and verifying the original paper and gave it a .5 and said the full front cover was recreated even though I later sent them scans showing the majority of the cover was original and should have gotten an apparent grade despite the extensive color touch.  Their grading notes did say a very small amount of front cover was original, but the CGC label said the full front cover was reproduced thus with no grade given even though approx 2/3rd the front cover was actually original! (False/incorrect grading!)

Guess how their wonderful customer service treated me with these 3 issues?   Too bad, we grade how we grade and we will not regrade anything or give you any credit for these issues towards re-submitting.  Worst customer service I have ever experienced and at this point I don't like their consistency, serious errors made, lack of following requests for green vs. blue label and will never trust them for grading anything extensively restored ever again.  If they had decent customer service and fixed their errors it would be one thing, but they don't even do that and have pathetic customer service.  Has anyone else had more issues with their grading errors and customer service this year than in the past?  I have had some mostly good experiences with only a few minor issues before, but this seems to be a particularly bad year for grading and customer service issues from what I have experienced/seen.

Edited August 24, 2020 by TC33

[steveinthecity]

33 minutes ago, Neckbone said:

5 hours ago, TC33 said:

I also requested a green label for a valuable golden age book missing the centerfold and it came back blue label .5 even though I requested green label only

Sounds like you were trying to game the system. I'm glad they didn't give you a GLOD.

Should this Scooby-Do #1 be a .5(or other) with missing centerfold, or does it make a difference if the story/art are affected? 

Edited August 24, 2020 by steveinthecity

[steveinthecity]

This is why I was wondering about Qualified vs. Universal in some instances.  The “scuffs” are just bad glare from the light.

Edited August 24, 2020 by steveinthecity

[Lightning55]

With the centerfold missing, it should be a Green label, and it is.  That's what it's for.  It's a 4.0 Qualified, with a centerfold missing.  Otherwise, it would be a Blue with a single digit grade, being incomplete.  I don't see any problem with the way this was handled by CGC.

[theCapraAegagrus]

@shadroch

[Lazyboy]

On 8/24/2020 at 3:23 AM, TC33 said:

I just re-sent CGC an Avengers 55 8.5 that I had hoped would get a 9.0 after pressing, sent the original label and everything stating that if it did not get at least the same grade, leave it raw and send it back with the label.  Guess what, they graded it a 6.5 and did not even send me back my original 8.5 label. 

 What?

Who pressed it? When was it pressed? In what state was it sent to CGC? Why did you think any of what you wanted was going to happen?

On 8/24/2020 at 3:23 AM, TC33 said:

I also requested a green label

AFAIK, that's never been an option. Why did you think it was? Green labels are used at CGC's discretion, but they will likely accommodate a request for a book that would usually get a green label to get a blue label.

[TC33]

1 hour ago, Lazyboy said:

 What?

Who pressed it? When was it pressed? In what state was it sent to CGC? Why did you think any of what you wanted was going to happen?

AFAIK, that's never been an option. Why did you think it was? Green labels are used at CGC's discretion, but they will likely accommodate a request for a book that would usually get a green label to get a blue label.

I had overlooked a micro chip on the back top cover edge the first time on the AV 55 that was a bit more obvious after I broke it out from the slab, so I then understood why it did not originally get a 9.2 like the front cover looked like, so honestly I was just expecting the same 8.5 grade the second time around. However someone much tighter having a really bad day really slammed the defect much harder the second time around.  Just shows it makes a big difference who you catch on a given day.  Consistency suffers with so many graders and no set/advertised grading standards.   Believe it or not, I have heard of far bigger gaps on re-submitted books over the years, but this is the biggest I have experienced first hand.      

On #2, I was told here on the boards that missing centerfolds were almost always green label (especially on otherwise really nice GA books like this one), and if I made sure to request that I for sure wanted a green label that it should be taken care of with no issues.  But in this case I guess they don't really care about consistency in grading things the same way, following customer requests to make sure they know I don't want them to go outside the norm for a blue label .5 or any follow up to customer service to make their long time customers happy.   On unmentioned #3, both other grading companies said they would have given the full apparent grade on the heavily restored book, however I was not even asking CGC to go back and do that, as I knew they said it was fully their call and I can live with that. I only requested that they give me an accurate label that said more than 1/2 the front cover was original as I had proven to them and had expected their "crack team" of restoration experts to easily detect!  However they could care less that they screwed up the accuracy of the label note and had no interest in fixing it for me.  Honestly, I was probably going to send it into CBCS anyway for a full apparent grade, but this was just further proof to me that CGC has no desire to make things right/fix their errors and zero customer service skills to make customers happy when they get things wrong.   Don't get me wrong, they still provide a good service overall and with so much quantity going in and out, I know they are bound to miss some things, but with as much as they get things wrong and don't care about fixing anything ever, it sure makes you wonder who is managing things so poorly over there!  Maybe they are just so busy they don't care as much about repeat business and would prefer to slow down the submissions? 

[seanfingh]

On 8/24/2020 at 4:23 AM, TC33 said:

 That is a full 2 grades lower than the first grading with the label included with the book and request it not be graded if not at least the same grade as prior. 

 

First off they NEVER return old labels. Secondly, the only way to request that it not be graded if not at least a certain grade is to do a pre-screen. You can't send a scrawled note in that says "Don't grade this unless it's going to be a ____."

Finally, books do get jacked up with pressing mistakes. I had a Yogi Bear #1 that was 9.0 (and would have pressed to 9.4-9.6 minimum) come back 6.5 because the book got torn. Coming out of the press, going into a mylar - I don't know. But I didn't cry about it (publicly anyway) because I wanted it pressed and something happened. It wouldn't have happened if I didn't send it in to get pressed. I put my big boy pants on and realized that at the end of the day no one is going to insure that they won't make a mistake, and it was my conscious choice to try and improve the grade.

Nut up people.

[TC33]

Love to hear from the CGC apologists, but the book was the same after as before, I will take the blame for not catching the microchip before cracking it open, I fully admit I should not have cracked it open had I caught it, I would have been more OK with the prior 8.5, but did not expect to get hit another 2 grade levels given how nice the rest of the book was with the resubmit of the same book.  Just got slammed by a different grader which is quite common in both directions if you ask around and my point is be careful cracking open any book, you are taking a big risk in re-grading and getting even the same grade it was given prior.  I had a pre-screen grade attached to the book to ensure 8.5, but somehow it got mixed up with another Av 55 book as I sent in several Av 55's at once and I might of had them out of order or something.   know there is nothing I can do with that one, no big deal and my stupidity for cracking it open to begin with although yes I was unhappy they would drop it 2 full grades (undeservedly) with the original label included. I knew this issue was not going anywhere with CGC based on their policy and thus this was not even one of the issues I even requested help/credit with in my follow up, just my bad luck and shared as food for thought as icing on the cake to a really bad submission experience!  All I really requested was a another resubmit for a green label as was requested and deserved and an accurate label on the very expensive resto book and they totally blew it on and this is how I took their response...we don't care about customer service, we grade how we want to grade and you are stuck with the results good or bad, right or wrong, so go pound sand.   That's not a good long term strategy for continued loyal customers, or in keeping a good long term reputation in my opinion, but if they are so busy that they can't even handle the volume they have (for now), I guess I understand it even though it seems extremely short sighted.    For long timers, none of this should be a shock, for others with fewer personal experiences like this, just food for thought.

[TC33]

57 minutes ago, Dolt said:

You have no way to prove this 

 

Whoever told you this is a moreon.

Your expectations are way too high.

Maybe they ignore crybabies?

  No an apologist is someone ignorant like you that ignores the facts and makes up excuses for why significant grading or label mistakes and zero customer service are perfectly fine.  Also I think you made your point to your low IQ level with your spelling of moreon.    I think your name and the fact you have been here for 2 days shows you knowledge level and or the fact that you are a flamer that keeps getting banned after making ignorant comments!

Edited September 3, 2020 by TC33

[Jeffro.]

6 minutes ago, TC33 said:

Also I think you made your point to your low IQ level with your spelling of moreon.

Or he did that because when it's spelled correctly it gets zapped by the language filter.  

[Lazyboy]

1 hour ago, TC33 said:

Love to hear from the CGC apologists

[TC33]

4 hours ago, Dolt said:

Have you met Dannie D yet? He's your brother from another mother.

I have not met him, is that your dad?  I know narcissists like you often have daddy issues.   How many times have you been banned for posting uneducated and ignorant comments while attacking people?  With a whopping 2 days with this new account and a great name like Dolt that matches your intellect, I would bet there have been quite a few!  Enjoy your next few days on this account until they figure out which banned dead beat flamer you are and close this account down also!  

[William-James88]

14 hours ago, TC33 said:

 Also I think you made your point to your low IQ level with your spelling of moreon.   

The user's name is "dolt", give him a break.

[steveinthecity]

Does everyone remember that time Dr. Doom encountered Dolt?

[Randall Ries]

On 9/3/2020 at 4:56 PM, seanfingh said:

First off they NEVER return old labels. Secondly, the only way to request that it not be graded if not at least a certain grade is to do a pre-screen. You can't send a scrawled note in that says "Don't grade this unless it's going to be a ____."

Finally, books do get jacked up with pressing mistakes. I had a Yogi Bear #1 that was 9.0 (and would have pressed to 9.4-9.6 minimum) come back 6.5 because the book got torn. Coming out of the press, going into a mylar - I don't know. But I didn't cry about it (publicly anyway) because I wanted it pressed and something happened. It wouldn't have happened if I didn't send it in to get pressed. I put my big boy pants on and realized that at the end of the day no one is going to insure that they won't make a mistake, and it was my conscious choice to try and improve the grade.

Nut up people.

"Nut up"? I guess so. If I leave my vehicle to be detailed, I do not expect my vehicle to be super clean but with a long scratch down the side and then be told "Yeah. That happened when we pulled the car out of the cleaning bay. Sorry. Deal."

No no. That's what insurance is for. No one damages my property during a procedure and expects that I am going to have nothing to say about it. I actually take photos of my stuff before I send it anywhere. No excuses. "Oh they are slammed!" "Oh! They Are busy!" "Oh! The signer MAY have messed it up!"

No. I sent it in without flaws. Now it has flaws. My property was damaged while in your care. I have the photos to prove it.

I actually will never send books to be graded unless I can sit there quietly and watch the process. I can preserve the things myself in top loaders with mylar.

[seanfingh]

3 minutes ago, Randall Ries said:

"Nut up"? I guess so. If I leave my vehicle to be detailed, I do not expect my vehicle to be super clean but with a long scratch down the side and then be told "Yeah. That happened when we pulled the car out of the cleaning bay. Sorry. Deal."

No no. That's what insurance is for. No one damages my property during a procedure and expects that I am going to have nothing to say about it. I actually take photos of my stuff before I send it anywhere. No excuses. "Oh they are slammed!" "Oh! They Are busy!" "Oh! The signer MAY have messed it up!"

No. I sent it in without flaws. Now it has flaws. My property was damaged while in your care. I have the photos to prove it.

I actually will never send books to be graded unless I can sit there quietly and watch the process. I can preserve the things myself in top loaders with mylar.

I really don’t disagree with you - at all.  We are actually saying (mostly) the same thing. If you want insurance, buy insurance. If you are aggrieved by the negligence of a third party, make a claim to them - you may have to sue them to recover. 
 

if you are someone (like me) who wants to try and improve the looks of your comics, and you use a pressing service and/or a grading service to increase the perceived value of your comics, then, when accidents happen, which they will, you can seek recompense through the avenues described above, or you can realize that but for your own actions, your book would still be pristine in a Mylar at home.

[Randall Ries]

31 minutes ago, seanfingh said:

I really don’t disagree with you - at all.  We are actually saying (mostly) the same thing. If you want insurance, buy insurance. If you are aggrieved by the negligence of a third party, make a claim to them - you may have to sue them to recover. 
 

if you are someone (like me) who wants to try and improve the looks of your comics, and you use a pressing service and/or a grading service to increase the perceived value of your comics, then, when accidents happen, which they will, you can seek recompense through the avenues described above, or you can realize that but for your own actions, your book would still be pristine in a Mylar at home.

Perhaps I am saying that CGC MUST be insured to a large degree. I cannot see myself accepting "Oh it's just the way it goes" as an excuse as to why suddenly the book has damage. The knee jerk seems to be "Oh well it must have happened during shipping". Yeah right. Sure it did. But as a customer, I know what the condition was when it left. I know how it was when it came back. I just don't like being told "Hey sorry gotta eat it". See? That's what liability insurance is for. No WAY a book got torn in shipping unless you just put a stamp on it and mail it to CGC unboxed.

If my item got to CGC in its box and the box was all kicked in or bent up, I would expect a call or email saying "Hey. The PO really did a number on your submission. We will take a look at the book and let you know immediately if the book was at all affected". And no. "They are too busy to do that doesn't cut it". That is customer service. That is an issue before it gets to the poor, swamped grader.

Seems to me there could be some method set up to insure that the signer doesn't mess it up as well. Isn't there a CGC "witness" there? A 10 inch fold in that Batman Giella back cover would be a pretty obvious thing. Was it signed on a flat surface? On a beach towel? On Giella's lap? I'd be incensed. The witness is there to witness the sig but perhaps they are also there to make sure books are handled properly. Not "Ok. I handed Giella 30 books. He will sign them and I will be back in 10 minutes after I get a coffee." I would make a poor witness. I would make sure they were in perfect position and handled gently, then stop Neal Adams from drawing all over the front of a key Batman book. LOL!

"HEY! Knock it off, Adams! Is this a sketch cover? No! Is this a Batman 232 9.8? YES! You aren't scribbling on it. NO! I don't CARE what the customer requested. YOU AIN'T DEFACING THAT BOOK!" Then it would be Adam Sandler/Bob Barker time.

If they are that busy where damage is being caused to valuable books (and more) LOVED books, CGC needs to expand their work force dramatically. Grading disparities I get. I do not get damage without accountability.