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Is Dylan Still Trying to Scam People with Restored Books?
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Started by William-James88,

404 posts in this topic

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Jeffro.

Jeffro.

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3 minutes ago, dylanthekid said:

I think it is fair, considering there was no difference in prices achieved. Bob you price things way higher than I do.

We trust Bob. We don't trust you

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Jeffro.

Jeffro.

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2 hours ago, dylanthekid said:

I was getting harassed earlier, I hope this time will be different. It's not exactly fun to have a bunch of mobsters calling you unethical with no evidence that's not a debate or a trial that's a witch-hunt. 

Please tell me you're going to try to sell comics directly on the boards because I'll will glady and gleefully take an unplanned vacation from the mods for carpet bombing your sales thread into oblivion. 

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Dylan.

Dylan.

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2 minutes ago, mattn792 said:

Proof please.

I don't have access to sold listings from that old. BUT here is a decent example from what I can see. From the new things I have learned about comic grading the below is likely a 7.0 not 8.0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Marvel-Family-38-FAWCETT-1949-Captain-Marvel-Instinct-Exterminator-Gun-8-0/224112217001?hash=item342e210ba9:g:ajYAAOSwokBfMJ0w

this is still a 6.5 IMO. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Marvel-Family-37-FAWCETT-1949-Captain-Marvel-Earth-Changer-6-5/224112217536?hash=item342e210dc0:g:8FoAAOSwE-tfMJ1x

yet the "8.0" sold for less than the 6.5, the market recorrects itself

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Domo Arigato

Domo Arigato

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Posted
5 minutes ago, dylanthekid said:

I don't have access to sold listings from that old. BUT here is a decent example from what I can see. From the new things I have learned about comic grading the below is likely a 7.0 not 8.0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Marvel-Family-38-FAWCETT-1949-Captain-Marvel-Instinct-Exterminator-Gun-8-0/224112217001?hash=item342e210ba9:g:ajYAAOSwokBfMJ0w

this is still a 6.5 IMO. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Marvel-Family-37-FAWCETT-1949-Captain-Marvel-Earth-Changer-6-5/224112217536?hash=item342e210dc0:g:8FoAAOSwE-tfMJ1x

yet the "8.0" sold for less than the 6.5, the market recorrects itself

So.....if the top one was likely a 7.0 and the bottom one was still a 6.5.......then that means the 7.0 still sold for less than the 6.5 and your example of proof goes right into the krapper.

Way to prove your point, Deinstein. lol

 

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blazingbob

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13 minutes ago, dylanthekid said:

I think it is fair, considering there was no difference in prices achieved. Bob you price things way higher than I do.

If you were standing in front of me I would ask you wtf are you talking about.

What does higher prices have to do with selling "2 vastly overgraded" (your own words) to buyer(s) that you are consciously admitting to doing on a public forum and in writing.

 

 

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mattn792

mattn792

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2 minutes ago, dylanthekid said:

I don't have access to sold listings from that old. BUT here is a decent example from what I can see. From the new things I have learned about comic grading the below is likely a 7.0 not 8.0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Marvel-Family-38-FAWCETT-1949-Captain-Marvel-Instinct-Exterminator-Gun-8-0/224112217001?hash=item342e210ba9:g:ajYAAOSwokBfMJ0w

this is still a 6.5 IMO. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Marvel-Family-37-FAWCETT-1949-Captain-Marvel-Earth-Changer-6-5/224112217536?hash=item342e210dc0:g:8FoAAOSwE-tfMJ1x

yet the "8.0" sold for less than the 6.5, the market recorrects itself

That's way too simplistic of an argument.  On the obvious face, they're different issues.  Second, the price difference was $17 between the two sales ($34 and $51).  Not exactly breaking the bank for Golden Age material.

Going beyond the obvious -- what was each buyer's motivation?  Is one book scarcer or harder to find than the other?  Did the guy who bought 37 think it was undergraded?  Etc.

If you want to make the argument that overgrading doesn't change anything in terms of price achieved, you need to run a much more strict trial.  Use three copies of an in demand book that are in approximately the same condition, list them all at the same time, with one each overgraded/undergraded/accurate.  Then see what happens.

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kav

kav

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11 minutes ago, speedcake said:

Good grief. This person is mentally exhausting. 

-but "hilarious".  I know cause he said so.

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James J Johnson

James J Johnson

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4 hours ago, dylanthekid said:

I was getting harassed earlier, I hope this time will be different. It's not exactly fun to have a bunch of mobsters calling you unethical with no evidence that's not a debate or a trial that's a witch-hunt. 

Dylan, reading this opinion from a seasoned and savvy, typically fair-minded, well-intentioned hobbyist, if nothing else, should at least make you reflect upon the question, "If this is how I and my business is perceived, perhaps there is something I can change or adjust to improve my business hence perception of my business from fellow hobbyists?".  

 

"I really don't care about people tippy-toeing around Dylan because he 'may have issues' - enough is enough.

Dylan has zero insight and frankly CGC should consider wether they wish to continue dealing with him.

Overstreet should dump him as he is an appalling advertisement for this industry.

That whole post reads like 'someone else sold these books - and anyway it's CGC's fault for pointing out CT, trimming etc'

Damn those pesky kids....

 

Anyone who continues to buy from this guy is just enabling a dishonest dealer.

Stop buying his crud, and the problem goes away."

Edited by James J Johnson
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thehumantorch

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2 hours ago, dylanthekid said:

I was getting harassed earlier, I hope this time will be different. It's not exactly fun to have a bunch of mobsters calling you unethical with no evidence that's not a debate or a trial that's a witch-hunt. 

Sorry Dylan, the results will be the same this time around.

There's plenty of evidence regarding your ethics or lack of in this thread in almost every post you make.  You just continue to ignore valid criticism and post denials and deflections and walls of .  

2 hours ago, dylanthekid said:

There's a lot of questions, and misinformation so I'm gonna correct it. I see this thread is still active, so what me worry...#13 is my favorite

1. CGC has really bad QC problems, yet we keep choosing to send books to them. fool me once shame on me, fool me 2x.....

2. If these books were raw, it is the responsibility of the seller to note any major problems (ie resto), that would change the desirability of the book and be of major problem to the buyer

3. The books were sent to CGC for their opinion of the books. This entire thing is on them, not me. I've had books that have come back both half a point higher and lower than they should have IMO. It's not my job to tell CGC hey this should actually be .5 lower according to Dylan's sense of grading. CGC doesn't care what I think. I've put notes on books specifying problems and grades with books and they have ignored them completely. Nobody wants a lower grade then they are given. Anybody who says they will is lying. Let's say I got a 9.8, that I thought was a 9.6, that's great for me. If I sent a 6.0, and got a 9.8, I would think something was up and probably roast the hell out of CGC, and make them buy it for full 9.8 value especially considering they way they poorly have treated me. Why do you think people want Onsite Grading? They are hoping to get half a point higher and get it quick, plain and simple. Everyone wants higher grades. That's not unethical. If people didn't want the absolute highest grade possible than why would they get books pressed? 

4. Thinking on it I absolutely no doubt should have posted something in the description clarifying what the labels said. I think it would have made little to no difference, considering must people don't read the description anyway. I almost never to never put notes in the description on a slabbed book at auction. I treated these books like every other CGC book. 

5. The books did have resto removal so I did not think the color touch was additive. There's a difference between marker that adds to the grade and marker that does not add to the grade. We see this on Golden Books more than any other type It's a very advanced argument, in terms of understanding the nature of resto removal, so if you are not well adversed in this topic, please just ignore this #5. 

6. the books were not trimmed. CGC got it wrong. You can't say CGC knows better than me but then be upset that I let their label dictate over my opinion. I send them stuff because their opinion is $ worth more than mine in the mind of collectors. It's my opinion, or it's their opinion. There's no middle ground. You can use a service like CVA or note appeal but not technical measurable flaws, grade/resto status etc. There are guys on eBay who will sell a CGC book and will say LOOKS 8.0. I think those guys are not trustworthy. It's an 8.0, or it's not an 8.0. If you want to say it looks 8.0, you need to back it up with lots of evidence.

Claims not backed by evidence are garbage-I don't care whether you drive a Mercedes or a shopping cart. 

7. If I truly thought the books were error labels, do you think I would be stupid enough to put them up under MY name?

8. Why wouldn't I sell them to a dealer? (Because they'd say Dylan, this has color touch etc.), which proves that any knowledgeable person would understand that CGC thought they had those things wrong with them, the same can be said about consignment. 

9. Someone who can't read should not be spending thousands of dollars on a comic book. I know it's not what the collector community wants to hear but it's the truth. The same can be said about grading comic books or understanding how much money gets you want. If you have tons of money that's great, you can spend as much as you want. But personally, I wouldn't spend my money on things I don't understand.

10. It's not fine print or at least the intent is not for me to hide what cgc said about the books on the labels. They created the labels, not me, I am just the middleman.

11. I did cancel all sales as soon as I was told about the "error." Of course I wasn't happy about it. It's bad cashflow for me. 

12. that asm 7 was UPI relisted. After the whole boards "dylan is evil" thing, do you honestly think I would have relisted it on MY account? Not only is there no motive, but there's a clear motive not to do it.

11. You can knit pick books that some have been overgraded and some really have not but most just can't tell the difference. If most people knew how to grade accurately, there wouldn't be a need for CGC. Most of the market are blind buyers. If I say it's a 6, it's your job to say what you think the book is. If you can't make your own opinions what are you doing on planet earth? you're enslaved to others.

12. overgrading/undergrading has little to no correlation with price achieved at auction. It's the trust, need filled, and overally experience that the buyer has with the seller. classic example is mycomicshop. They undergrade a lot but it's not priced like the grade that is being sold if the seller wants it to move quick. Gary Dolgoff uses a similar strategy. Wide selection. inaccurate grading. great customer service. 

13. To prove #12, I did a case study a few months ago, and would slip 4 comic books in every auction. 2 vastly overgraded, and 2 vastly undergraded into the auction to see the correlation of grade & price. The results were that on a rare occasion the buyer would return the overgraded book, and would be thrilled with the undergraded. But nobody said anything on 95% plus of those case study books. The market corrects itself at auction. When the book had a ridiculous grade in either direction, people were forced to come up with their own conclusion. If a book was close to the actual grade, and had standard eye appeal people were more likely to pay based on the grade written vs their own opinions. I would get a few messages every month saying both my grading was spot on and that it was horrible and everything was a "FR" which I thought was hilarious because the opinions were so different. 

14. I got tired of a few buyers returning stuff every week so I decided to start grading more like Comics4less and Blissard. They have built great selling accounts and I plan on continuing to do the same. Since my new very very tight grading system I have received ZERO negative or neutral feedbacks only positive. 

15. I could sell everything without grades and still get OK mediocre numbers. It's not so much the grading. It's the customer's expectation VS what they received plain and simple. People are happy with what they buy from me. The experience is top notch. Nobody on the entire CGC boards has bought anything from me and posted it on the threads, with a negative experience. So in other words, you are all afraid of something you have never tried. I didn't like trying new foods either...when I was 5. We grow as individuals by being experienced to new things. 

16. Just so there is no debate, I posted a few books from one week of auctions on the WDYT the grade is area of the threads. the verdict was that my grading was on par. Considering boardies are tighter than ebay and normal collector's I would say it's undergraded to the average customer. People teased me about the Giggle 3, but those books speak for themselves. Check sold listings, go ahead.

Side note about the Giggle 3. At first glance to me the book looked 8.0, no major problems. It has spine ticks but that's about it. It also had foxing not mold. foxing and mold are not the same thing. foxing is before it becomes mold and they are graded very differently. this looked similar to an ASM 129 that I sold a few years back CGC 8.0. Customer returned the book, and I looked at it again and decided that is was NOT an 8.0. Mistakes happen. Grading a book correctly takes a lot of time, with this much material I had to go fast. I decided it was lower, so I lowered the grade. CGC does this also, they just don't tell you. Good for me for fixing it and learning from it. nuff said

 

Wow.  Frankly I don't know where to start.  You can't really believe all of this makes you look good can you?  Without malice I'm gonna try to respond to your points honestly

 

#1  CGC's label mistake doesn't excuse anyone, including you, from trying to profit from the mistake.

#2  Absolutely.   To take it a step further a ethical seller should always provide pertinent information that would affect the value of a product.  That applies to raw comics or graded comics.

#3  CGC's mistakes on the label are their responsibility.  Absolutely.  What you do with the books is your responsibility and mistakes made by CGC don't absolve you of doing the right thing.  The rest of your #3 has nothing to do with the discussion.

#4.  You're wrong, buyers usually read the description, especially for more expensive books and frankly important information like "Restored" should be in the auction title and the description.  Failing to provide information about restoration clearly appears to be an attempt by you to profit from CGC's label mistake.

#5  These weren't GA books

#6  CGC sometimes gets trimming wrong.  Most of us will trust CGC's opinion over yours because they're the most trusted graders in the business.  That they made mistakes on the label shows that they are not perfect.

#7  Yes.

#8  #7 above indicates you didn't know they were problem labels yet you wouldn't sell these to an experienced dealer because they'd recognize there was a problem with the label. You're an experienced dealer so clearly you knew there was a problem with the labels.    And if you have books that are labeled incorrectly and you realize experienced dealers will recognize the labeling error, what's your recourse?  Hint, selling on ebay hoping that the buyer isn't as experienced as you or other experienced dealers and will overpay.  That's why there's outrage at your behavior.

#9  Really?  Someone who can't read?  That's your defense?  We know what to expect when we see a CGC graded book and we generally trust their grading.  It's pretty easy to miss some fine print on the label and just focus on the CGC grade and that the label color doesn't indicate restoration.  Especially if we're looking at the auction on a cell phone.  As the seller you should do everything you can to make sure buyers know what they're buying.U

#10  You're essentially saying CGC made a mistake and I don't have to be honest about what I'm selling.  You're selling the books and it's your responsibility to represent them honestly and correctly and integrity doesn't end with CGC.

#11  You're right.  A lot of people can't grade and most over-grade by CGC standards.  All you can do is try to grade to CGC standards which you don't.

#12  Sure, many buyers know mycomicshop grades strictly and bid higher because of it.  Of course some buyers can't grade and clearly your business model counts on that.

#13  After looking at your ebay grading I'm struggling with the concept of you under-grading.  But I agree, some buyers can't grade and some are just happy to get a copy of a book to read and grade doesn't matter to them.  And some will get the book, shake their head and remember to never bid on your books again and not bother to neg you.  And some will complain or return the book.  If you're assigning a grade you should try to assign a fair grade based on CGC or Overstreet standards.  And do you really think it's fair to your customers to deliberately over-grade 2 books as an experiment?  What about your brand?

#14  Aha, you're admitting that you were getting returns because of grading every week and you're trying to grade better.  The first indication that you admit you're grading poorly and trying to improve.  Progress.

#15  You should sell everything without grades because it would be much more honest than the grades you've been giving your books.  Why do sellers over-grade?  Because they hope buyers will buy the book based on the grade assigned by the dealer and overpay.  You state that people are happy with what they buy from you and the experience is top notch yet #14 you state you were tired of getting returns every week and you're trying to grade better.  Clearly there's a problem and the experience isn't top notch.

#16  We all grade to a certain standard.  Logically CGC boardies will attempt to grade to CGC standards.  I'm not sure what standard you're grading to but it isn't close to CGC or overstreet and I'd suggest it's well below the average ebay grading.  WDYT, where?

Regarding your Giggle #3  When this first blew up I went through your auctions and every single book you listed looked over-graded.  Some so over-graded it was beyond belief.   Honestly, I've never seen grading as bad as yours.  That you've continued to defend the Giggle 3 is comical.  No major problems?  Even in the small picture I can see dirt, rips and pieces of the spine hanging off.  Close inspection just reveals many more issues.  It isn't close to an 8.0 and that you refuse to admit it shows that you're more invested in your version of reality and your reputation than the truth.

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kav

kav

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5 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

That is the bulletproof default signal to tell for sure! (thumbsu

I mean his rebuttal was he can have an opinion just like anyone.  However certain opinions should not be verbalized IMO:
"I'm awesome"
"I'm better than anyone"
"I'm hilarious"

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thehumantorch

thehumantorch

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1 hour ago, dylanthekid said:
2 hours ago, blazingbob said:

So to line item #13 do you think it is fair that you stuck vastly overgraded books to 2 buyers?  

Honestly,  your way to do business choices are some of the worst I have ever seen.  

As a dealer it is your job to do the right thing,  accurately grade books,  be fair,  accept returns and not take advantage of others which ruins the business for all of us.   Nobody likes to tell a buyer that they were taken advantage of.  

 

I think it is fair, considering there was no difference in prices achieved. Bob you price things way higher than I do.

My god, you admit this stuff on a public forum without any thought to your brand or reputation.  Deliberately over-grading is unethical and you're lying to your customers.

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