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Official TMNT Speculation Thread
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Started by pubmonkey,

1,222 posts in this topic

DPV

DPV

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3 hours ago, Racerboy1 said:

It’s a shill bid. Smells bad 

It's not.  I know the seller.  It must be two people that really want this book.  I was also wondering why the Heritage SS didn't go higher... That one had Eastman sig and sketch on the cover.  This one has both Eastman and Laird signatures on inside cover.  I don't think that would make much of a difference to most?  Is one more desirable than the other?  I'm new to the hobby, you guys would know better than I.  Only thing I can think of is that the right people weren't on that Heritage auction?

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Ryan.

Ryan.

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39 minutes ago, DPV said:

It's not.  I know the seller.  It must be two people that really want this book.  I was also wondering why the Heritage SS didn't go higher... That one had Eastman sig and sketch on the cover.  This one has both Eastman and Laird signatures on inside cover.  I don't think that would make much of a difference to most?  Is one more desirable than the other?  I'm new to the hobby, you guys would know better than I.  Only thing I can think of is that the right people weren't on that Heritage auction?

There are a lot of collectors that dislike signatures on the cover.

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valiantman

valiantman

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6 minutes ago, Ryan. said:
46 minutes ago, DPV said:

It's not.  I know the seller.  It must be two people that really want this book.  I was also wondering why the Heritage SS didn't go higher... That one had Eastman sig and sketch on the cover.  This one has both Eastman and Laird signatures on inside cover.  I don't think that would make much of a difference to most?  Is one more desirable than the other?  I'm new to the hobby, you guys would know better than I.  Only thing I can think of is that the right people weren't on that Heritage auction?

There are a lot of collectors that dislike signatures on the cover.

Combining the details of this particular book with the current practices in the industry...

A CGC 9.8 blue label TMNT #3 variant with signatures inside has all the "signs" pointing to an original copy that was obtained at the 1985 convention and somehow kept pristine during the convention and the 35+ years that followed.

A CGC 9.8 yellow label TMNT #3 variant with signatures on the cover has all the "signs" pointing to a copy that has been recently "maximized" (signature added to the cover decades after printing, CGC witness verified, no doubt pressed before CGC grading), etc., and for lack of a better word the book "reeks" of seller cash-grab.

They're both awesome books, but TMNT #3 variant represents a very special, very early day in the history of TMNT.    The closer you can get to that day and the preservation of that day, the better. 

Yellow labels blur the "special day" in history with another day... a random day... decades later... when the book was scribbled on by that original creator --- now a famous millionaire, not the same kid who made a comic --- and presented for "maximum profit" to CGC for certification before coming to market.

If these books were $5, who cares... but they're 5-figure books... and collectors tend to get "serious" when the prices get that high.

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pubmonkey

pubmonkey

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25 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Combining the details of this particular book with the current practices in the industry...

A CGC 9.8 blue label TMNT #3 variant with signatures inside has all the "signs" pointing to an original copy that was obtained at the 1985 convention and somehow kept pristine during the convention and the 35+ years that followed.

A CGC 9.8 yellow label TMNT #3 variant with signatures on the cover has all the "signs" pointing to a copy that has been recently "maximized" (signature added to the cover decades after printing, CGC witness verified, no doubt pressed before CGC grading), etc., and for lack of a better word the book "reeks" of seller cash-grab.

They're both awesome books, but TMNT #3 variant represents a very special, very early day in the history of TMNT.    The closer you can get to that day and the preservation of that day, the better. 

Yellow labels blur the "special day" in history with another day... a random day... decades later... when the book was scribbled on by that original creator --- now a famous millionaire, not the same kid who made a comic --- and presented for "maximum profit" to CGC for certification before coming to market.

If these books were $5, who cares... but they're 5-figure books... and collectors tend to get "serious" when the prices get that high.

very well said!

The exception to this might be if the yellow label was signed by both Laird and Eastman. It's fairly common to find an Eastman sig but rare and expensive for a Laird one.

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valiantman

valiantman

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4 minutes ago, pubmonkey said:
32 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Combining the details of this particular book with the current practices in the industry...

A CGC 9.8 blue label TMNT #3 variant with signatures inside has all the "signs" pointing to an original copy that was obtained at the 1985 convention and somehow kept pristine during the convention and the 35+ years that followed.

A CGC 9.8 yellow label TMNT #3 variant with signatures on the cover has all the "signs" pointing to a copy that has been recently "maximized" (signature added to the cover decades after printing, CGC witness verified, no doubt pressed before CGC grading), etc., and for lack of a better word the book "reeks" of seller cash-grab.

They're both awesome books, but TMNT #3 variant represents a very special, very early day in the history of TMNT.    The closer you can get to that day and the preservation of that day, the better. 

Yellow labels blur the "special day" in history with another day... a random day... decades later... when the book was scribbled on by that original creator --- now a famous millionaire, not the same kid who made a comic --- and presented for "maximum profit" to CGC for certification before coming to market.

If these books were $5, who cares... but they're 5-figure books... and collectors tend to get "serious" when the prices get that high.

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very well said!

The exception to this might be if the yellow label was signed by both Laird and Eastman. It's fairly common to find an Eastman sig but rare and expensive for a Laird one.

Agreed, but you're still "blending" the survival aspects of a 1980s independent convention comic with the autographs of famous people decades later.  When it's the creators, that's a good thing.  They're famous now, they weren't then, but at least it's the creators.  It's those decades in between which create that gap between "amazing preservation" and "oh, look... that's nice". :grin:

Signatures get weirder when when it's a current actor signing decades old comics for a character they play.  There's definitely a market for it, but it's strange... imagine having the Diana actress from The Crown sign a Life magazine with the real Princess Diana on the cover. (kinda creepy)

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valiantman

valiantman

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1 hour ago, spracknetch23 said:

Re the #3 variant, I wonder how many of them aren’t signed at all? I’ve only run across one unsigned. I assume a high percentage of them were signed at the con back in the day. 

Is there any discussion of whether they sold out at the convention?  I agree that unsigned copies are unusual, but if they are "leftovers" (unsold copies), they lose a little bit of nostalgia-sparkle. :grin:

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pubmonkey

pubmonkey

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2 hours ago, spracknetch23 said:

Re the #3 variant, I wonder how many of them aren’t signed at all?

It's an interesting question, and likely only 2 people would know the answer if they remember at all...

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