Please Share The Bruce Timm Art From Your Personal Collection!
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Question for collectors: Has anyone had an issue with a framed Timm color piece fading?

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Mine is one of the very few pieces that I never bothered to frame, for this very issue. In fact most of the time I refuse to buy marker art for fade and the other issues tied to markers. But this was one of those situations where Timm only used markers for these pieces, and there's really no alternative. And in this case it was such a desire to have a fun Timm with these characters, that I overruled my no marker stance on this one piece.  I ended u selling the other Timm pieces. I just didn't want a bunch of marker art. :/

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On 9/22/2020 at 9:42 AM, ESeffinga said:

Mine is one of the very few pieces that I never bothered to frame, for this very issue. In fact most of the time I refuse to buy marker art for fade and the other issues tied to markers. But this was one of those situations where Timm only used markers for these pieces, and there's really no alternative. And in this case it was such a desire to have a fun Timm with these characters, that I overruled my no marker stance on this one piece.  I ended u selling the other Timm pieces. I just didn't want a bunch of marker art. :/

i would have thought that artists like Timm would use markers that are permanent. as i don't use them much i havent looked into it deeply, but given how many high end color markers there are these days, do you, or anyone here, know of Timm's marker art fading over time? 

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1 hour ago, www.alexgross.com said:

i would have thought that artists like Timm would use markers that are permanent. as i don't use them much i havent looked into it deeply, but given how many high end color markers there are these days, do you, or anyone here, know of Timm's marker art fading over time? 

I’m not aware of any dye based pen/marker that is permanent. Fade resistant, sure. Permanent?  Nah. Nothing like a pigment based ink like India, etc.  Copics seem to be everyone’s favorite, art wise, and it says right in their site that they will fade with UV exposure.

I’ve seen a number of companies using UV resistant dye based inks, but all do fade given enough time. 
 

What’s more, my issue with markers is also solvent issue as well as the fading. The solvents can and do often “migrate” given enough time. They can leach out of the paper onto anything around them, including plastics. I’ve personally experienced this from my own pieces that were “permanent”.
 

But that’s just my observations. I’m sure some folks are living with marker art on their walls. I just wouldn’t do it personally, based on my personal experiences.

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40 minutes ago, ESeffinga said:

I’m not aware of any dye based pen/marker that is permanent. Fade resistant, sure. Permanent?  Nah. Nothing like a pigment based ink like India, etc.  Copics seem to be everyone’s favorite, art wise, and it says right in their site that they will fade with UV exposure.

I’ve seen a number of companies using UV resistant dye based inks, but all do fade given enough time. 
 

What’s more, my issue with markers is also solvent issue as well as the fading. The solvents can and do often “migrate” given enough time. They can leach out of the paper onto anything around them, including plastics. I’ve personally experienced this from my own pieces that were “permanent”.
 

But that’s just my observations. I’m sure some folks are living with marker art on their walls. I just wouldn’t do it personally, based on my personal experiences.

 

On 9/22/2020 at 8:47 AM, J.Sid said:

Question for collectors: Has anyone had an issue with a framed Timm color piece fading?

I don't know of any actually fading, but I asked Bruce when I got sketches from him and he said the markers are not lightfast and will fade.  Which isn't that surprising.

Malvin

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1 hour ago, ESeffinga said:

I’m not aware of any dye based pen/marker that is permanent. Fade resistant, sure. Permanent?  Nah. Nothing like a pigment based ink like India, etc.  Copics seem to be everyone’s favorite, art wise, and it says right in their site that they will fade with UV exposure.

I’ve seen a number of companies using UV resistant dye based inks, but all do fade given enough time. 
 

What’s more, my issue with markers is also solvent issue as well as the fading. The solvents can and do often “migrate” given enough time. They can leach out of the paper onto anything around them, including plastics. I’ve personally experienced this from my own pieces that were “permanent”.
 

But that’s just my observations. I’m sure some folks are living with marker art on their walls. I just wouldn’t do it personally, based on my personal experiences.

My picture was done by Hembeck using marker from the early 1980’s. But, I can certainly understand your reluctance.

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2 hours ago, ESeffinga said:

I’m not aware of any dye based pen/marker that is permanent. Fade resistant, sure. Permanent?  Nah. Nothing like a pigment based ink like India, etc.  Copics seem to be everyone’s favorite, art wise, and it says right in their site that they will fade with UV exposure.

I’ve seen a number of companies using UV resistant dye based inks, but all do fade given enough time. 
 

What’s more, my issue with markers is also solvent issue as well as the fading. The solvents can and do often “migrate” given enough time. They can leach out of the paper onto anything around them, including plastics. I’ve personally experienced this from my own pieces that were “permanent”.
 

But that’s just my observations. I’m sure some folks are living with marker art on their walls. I just wouldn’t do it personally, based on my personal experiences.

as @Subby1938 just said, my next question was going to be about UV plexiglas or museum glass. i use these in most of the art that i display in my home. i would think that these would really take down any fading unless one was silly enough to display marker based art directly in sunlight. 

and i imagine if you store marker art in flat files where it is not exposed to light, it probably would not fade either. anyway, thanks for this info, it had never occurred to me. Timm's marker work is so stunning. It would be tragic if some of these pieces faded to a noticeably degraded state. 

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56 minutes ago, Subby1938 said:

Protect the image from UV light with best UV glass offered . That’s what I do . Zero worries for me . 

I've heard that UV glass doesn't fully protect marker, as those fade with light, not just UV light (plus the chemicals degrade regardless)

Malvin

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24 minutes ago, malvin said:

I've heard that UV glass doesn't fully protect marker, as those fade with light, not just UV light (plus the chemicals degrade regardless)

Malvin

Museum grade  blocks out 98% of UV on oil , marker , ink whatever is used really .I have a Bill Everett sketch from 1970 done in the day of primitive marker and paper quality and it’s holding up very well 50 years later!

I also use acid free matte so I’m not too concerned because if it’s good enough for art galleries it’s good enough for me . You will pay higher amounts for these materials and obviously don’t display in direct sunlight

 

Edited by Subby1938

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4 hours ago, malvin said:

I've heard that UV glass doesn't fully protect marker, as those fade with light, not just UV light (plus the chemicals degrade regardless)

Malvin

 

4 hours ago, Subby1938 said:

Museum grade  blocks out 98% of UV on oil , marker , ink whatever is used really .I have a Bill Everett sketch from 1970 done in the day of primitive marker and paper quality and it’s holding up very well 50 years later!

I also use acid free matte so I’m not too concerned because if it’s good enough for art galleries it’s good enough for me . You will pay higher amounts for these materials and obviously don’t display in direct sunlight

 

 

I am 0-for-1 with museum glass over a marker piece.

Had it framed on the wall for 3-4 years. Not direct sunlight, but there was a window in the room (not facing the artwork, curtains mostly closed). One day the person I got it from was visiting and saw it on my wall.

"WTF happened to the Miller??" he asked.
"What do you mean? It's framed on the wall right there," I replied. "I love it, it's great."
He assured me it was not "great" and insisted we take down the piece.

We removed it from its frame, and sure enough, my friend was right. The bottom type which reads "BFK#2" had been covered by the mat while hanging. The rest of drawing used to be that dark. I didn't notice it when it was fading one day at a time.

P.S. yes, I had the glass installed correctly...

 

Faded_Marker_Sin_City.jpg

Edited by J.Sid
typo

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44 minutes ago, J.Sid said:

 

 

I am 0-for-1 with museum glass over a marker piece.

Had it framed on the wall for 3-4 years. Not direct sunlight, but there was a window in the room (not facing the artwork, curtains mostly closed). One day the person I got it from was visiting and saw it on my wall.

"WTF happened to the Miller??" he asked.
"What do you mean? It's framed on the wall right there," I replied. "I love it, it's great."
He assured me it was not "great" and insisted we take down the piece.

We removed it from its frame, and sure enough, my friend was right. The bottom type which reads "BFK#2" had been covered by the mat while hanging. The rest of drawing used to be that dark. I didn't notice it when it was fading one day at a time.

P.S. yes, I had the glass installed correctly...

 

Faded_Marker_Sin_City.jpg

Exactly.

UV glass doesn't do as much as people think when it comes to comic art.

Malvin

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I’m confident in my framing . Sucks that happened but that’s a whole lot of terrible fade there if they were same colour . Not sure what to make of that . That marker on bottom looks a lot blacker than actual graphic . Like I said I have a 50 year old piece that hasn’t faded that bad ????

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26 minutes ago, Subby1938 said:

I’m confident in my framing . Sucks that happened but that’s a whole lot of terrible fade there if they were same colour . Not sure what to make of that . That marker on bottom looks a lot blacker than actual graphic . Like I said I have a 50 year old piece that hasn’t faded that bad ????

It's not about the framing.  Markers fade, and if it fades day by day you don't notice.

Malvin

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6 hours ago, J.Sid said:

 

 

I am 0-for-1 with museum glass over a marker piece.

Had it framed on the wall for 3-4 years. Not direct sunlight, but there was a window in the room (not facing the artwork, curtains mostly closed). One day the person I got it from was visiting and saw it on my wall.

"WTF happened to the Miller??" he asked.
"What do you mean? It's framed on the wall right there," I replied. "I love it, it's great."
He assured me it was not "great" and insisted we take down the piece.

We removed it from its frame, and sure enough, my friend was right. The bottom type which reads "BFK#2" had been covered by the mat while hanging. The rest of drawing used to be that dark. I didn't notice it when it was fading one day at a time.

P.S. yes, I had the glass installed correctly...

 

Faded_Marker_Sin_City.jpg

Oh no, I'm so sorry that you had to directly experience this but thank you for sharing. The CULT OF MUSEUM GLASS wouldn't believe there could be a problem otherwise!

It's not that the stuff does "nothing" but the promise is not supported by reality and then the price...what exactly are you paying up for then?

All this stuff...not oils, not acrylics, not india ink...keep it in a portfolio or a drawer and pull out occasionally, or...just live with and love, and when it's gone "it is GONE". That's okay too!

 

P.S. Everyone should make a color-corrected scan of this stuff at time of acquisition, save that/them somewhere safe (not just CAF, which can/could disappear at any time as so many other private web sites have over the past 25 years --it happens) and then no matter what happens -including fires and floods, the thing is not lost forever as it fades (along with so much Starlin and Gil Kane into...oblivion).

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2 hours ago, ESeffinga said:

I’m of the opinion that if the piece is protected as well as possible, and you love to see it and enjoy seeing it every day... and especially commissions or sketches... frame it. Let it fade slowly over time. But enjoy it. Getting daily enjoyment from those things IMO outstrips their historic value 9 times out of 10. 

Yes. 100%. Yes.

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