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50th annual Overstreet - What does he get right? What does he get wrong?
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186 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, MrBedrock said:

And yet they actively encourage "Market Reports" from all sorts of folks that they call advisors. These so-called experts are then able to get the most self-serving BS into print and essentially endorsed.

I love the price guide and consider it dear. But the entire front section of the book in manipulated garbage edited by folks who don't actively participate the the back-issue market and do not recognize the hot steaming pile of faulty information that are the market reports..

I cull thru these reports and try to separate the wheat from the chaff. It’s still interesting and informative. There are spots that strike me as manipulative, but I read em anyway. I think you may be in a better position than most to spot the manipulation 

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4 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Sean;

Didn't you used to be an advisor for the Overstreet Guide back in the 90's or thereabouts when you were much more active as a dealer and also a regular contributor to the CBM magazine?  hm

Maybe you could touch base with Bob one of these days and ask him about this obvious pricing anomaly between Cap 2 and Cap 3 and then give us the scoop here.  (thumbsu

Yes, but surely among all the high profile people we have on this board, I can't be the best source to reach/question Bob about his decisions.

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7 hours ago, Crowzilla said:

Maybe that is the real takeaway, the guide is (mostly) accurate, just not the grades Bob says.

So instead of looking at Batman #1 in 2.0 and thinking, "wow that $2,000 increase this year to $57,300 put the price close to 2016 levels",we should just read it as the price for a 1.0. and think "yeah that sounds about right".  Then just replace the other grades as needed, the 4.0 price is the 3.0 price, the 6.0 is the 4.5 price, the 8.0 is actually 7ish, etc. 

But of course for the first 3 prices in the guide Cap #1 is listed as exactly half the value of Bat #1, so not sure how the sliding scale will work there. To be fair, Bob did raise Cap #1 an astonishing 10% to keep it at half Bat #1 value, which is for Bob is about as progressive as you can get.

No the more I think about it, there is no excuse to be that far off, how can you have Cap #1 in 6.0 at $85,950 (and 2.0 at $28,650) when that number hasn't been correct since about 2014?

 

 

Agreed, Sean. The scale somewhat slides as the 2.0 price is the “Real world” 1.0 price to some extent. I think Bob has felt the pressures of raising the prices like Cap 1 to help make it look more reasonable with true FMV. I’ve always mentioned that AA16 probably needs to drop down a bit relative to overall power rankings for golden age. But, considering the rarity of AA16 and not trading hands too often publicly, It has maintained a top 5 status for years. Certainly, it should not be ranked ahead of Marvel 1, Bat 1, or Cap 1 in today’s market. AA16 is a cool book nonetheless.  

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I love reading the Overstreet but some pricing has not come up to the value.I know flippers would love it tons of cash to be made.All classic cover books are getting prices that reach the stars and new heights everyday :insane: 

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1 hour ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

I cull thru these reports and try to separate the wheat from the chaff. It’s still interesting and informative. There are spots that strike me as manipulative, but I read em anyway. I think you may be in a better position than most to spot the manipulation 

Certainly, the reports offer unbiased opinions with some advisors. But, I can certainly see pumping up one’s favorites, spec books, or hopeful markets. I always favor writing/reading about the historical aspects of the hobby, but it is a price guide so it’s always going to be filled with googling numbers. 

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2 hours ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:
5 hours ago, MrBedrock said:

And yet they actively encourage "Market Reports" from all sorts of folks that they call advisors. These so-called experts are then able to get the most self-serving BS into print and essentially endorsed.

I love the price guide and consider it dear. But the entire front section of the book in manipulated garbage edited by folks who don't actively participate the the back-issue market and do not recognize the hot steaming pile of faulty information that are the market reports..

I cull thru these reports and try to separate the wheat from the chaff. It’s still interesting and informative. There are spots that strike me as manipulative, but I read em anyway. I think you may be in a better position than most to spot the manipulation 

Well, in the days of yore before they had the internet and social media websites which was actually not so long ago, I most definitely read the market reports as they were a must read and one of the first things that I checked out when I got my copy of the guide.  :luhv:

Now with the boards and all of the other sources of information that we seemingly have at the click of a button, definitely not so much as I tend to read them only when I am bored and have nothing else to do.  Just went through the last few of them from the 2019 guide the previous weekend as I figured that I should get through all of them before the new edition of the guide came out last week.  :p

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8 hours ago, MrBedrock said:
8 hours ago, Chicago Boy said:

This post wins the day !

:acclaim:Why else make a post?

Why else?  Well let's see.  For the post to win the week, or the month, or the year, or the decade, or the century, or ......

A day is so puny!

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16 minutes ago, bronze johnny said:

50 years of a price guide is an incredible achievement. Agree with the view about the self serving articles in the market report section not being helpful to the guide - isn’t this just one of many self-serving examples we see throughout the hobby? 

The Guide should be taken in its entirety and the historical role its played in the hobby. I remember a time when I could walk into a comic book shop or go to a show with a current edition of the guide and refer to it as a reference on pricing when a seller tried to take advantage of me. I also remember the surprised and sometimes uncomfortable look on some sellers’ faces when they saw my copy in hand.

Let’s keep in mind Bob’s view on long term view on pricing with all the shenanigans that go on in the comic book market. Just check out threads and you’ll see hype about movies and/or tv shows increasing the value of a book. You then see some seller‘s using hype like “movie --script is in the works...” to push a book. We’ve always had hot books but the notion that success in another medium automatically and permanently increases the value of a comic book is also something to look out for. The Guide provides a view that hyped-inflated prices on books due to flipping and in some cases, market manipulation (see shill bidding on eBay), will not necessarily lead to long-term increases. One other factor that’s significant today has to do with the lack of transparency in auctions. A book that doesn’t sell for a price can then appear on an auction and sell for a greater than expected price. Who’s bidding is another question that lacks transparency. The time may eventually come for laws requiring greater transparency in private auctions in order to protect the integrity of the auction process. Collectors should keep this in mind when looking at previous auction prices for books. The Guide is a reference that can help provide some accuracy about how to interpret these sales but the emphasis should be placed on the word “can” since the standards used to confirm source material may raise issues. 

The Guide has been and will continue to be one of many sources (along with the internet) a collector will refer to for pricing and history despite the lack of objectivity provided by some of its market reports.

I was happy to add the 50th Edition to my hardcover collection and upon looking at all the editions going back to the first, still can’t believe how this comic book “institution” has provided the hobby with a degree of consistency and predictability - necessary for the existence of any marketplace.
 

Most importantly, the Guide has not only given collectors references to the history of our hobby but also become one of the greatest parts of comic book history.
 

-john

Well said...:applause:

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1 hour ago, Robot Man said:
1 hour ago, bronze johnny said:

I was happy to add the 50th Edition to my hardcover collection and upon looking at all the editions going back to the first, still can’t believe how this comic book “institution” has provided the hobby with a degree of consistency and predictability - necessary for the existence of any marketplace.
 

Most importantly, the Guide has not only given collectors references to the history of our hobby but also become one of the greatest parts of comic book history.
 

-john

Well said...:applause:

Indeed..........definitely very well said!!!  (thumbsu

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The annual release of “The Overstreet” as I used to call it back when I started collecting was a big event for me. My first was in 1981. I read that thing until it fell apart, poring over the LB Cole covers (including some of his paperback work), discovering new worlds of collecting that blew my “I just finished completing a run of new X-Men so what else is left” mind. My favorite part, in those pre-Gerber book times, were the color sections with so many beautiful comics! After a few years I had an index of what golden age books were in each guide, to reference when I received typed lists from dealers. Now, it’s a great piece of nostalgia and I still enjoy it every year.

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4 hours ago, comicnoir said:

Cap 46 went from $32,000 to $40,000 an increase of $8,000, now tied with with PL17.

Isn't it time for Cap 46 to enter the Top 100?

I assume his Top 100 along with his other charts must still be done up manually  :screwy: as opposed to being computerized since it's quite common to see new entrants to the charts be missed for a year or two.  Similar to what happened with a couple of the pre-Robin Tec books a few years ago.  doh!

Maybe somebody here should send a qiick email to Overstreet and his gang beause these are the exact types of mistakes or oversights that they will indeed fix up for the next edition of the guide.  Now, if you are talking about your own personal opinions on individual pricing valuations for certain books, most definitely not so much.  Looks like the Cap 46 would have taken top spot in terms of his Top 100 percentage increases since it increased by 25% if he had correctly included it in his Top 100 chart for this year's edition of the guide.  :applause:

On the other hand it appears that poor Hoppy's not getting much love from Overstreet this year as he dropped Hopalong Cassidy #1 by a whopping 35% from the #2 spot at $4,600 in his Top 10 Western chart in last year's guide down to only $3,000 or into the #9 spot in his Top 10 Western chart for this year.  :whatthe:  :whatthe:

Edited by lou_fine
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I was wondering recently about what software they use...  it’s a lot of data, and it MUST be a spreadsheet of some kind to calculate all the in between grades, right?  Any database software could do this AND be searchable and sorted/reordered by any of the fields for each book... like NM- price , AND database apps can be formatted to produce the final print ready hi-res  page galleys , fonts, sizes spacing columns etc too... Cause pouring the text into indesign would lead to a lot or reformatting and tabbing etc...

so  now that you Point out that the top 100 has omissions and errors?  Wow.  How ARE they doing this book?

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58 minutes ago, Aman619 said:

I was wondering recently about what software they use...  it’s a lot of data, and it MUST be a spreadsheet of some kind to calculate all the in between grades, right?  Any database software could do this AND be searchable and sorted/reordered by any of the fields for each book... like NM- price , AND database apps can be formatted to produce the final print ready hi-res  page galleys , fonts, sizes spacing columns etc too... Cause pouring the text into indesign would lead to a lot or reformatting and tabbing etc...

so  now that you Point out that the top 100 has omissions and errors?  Wow.  How ARE they doing this book?

Every page is written by hand on paper, and then secretaries copy the handwritten sheets by typing them out on their typewriters.  Pretty straightforward actually; it's not Rocket Science!  (Come to think of it, Rocket Science is also pretty darn easy.)

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