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Retcons and issue price increases
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17 posts in this topic

Isn't it just a little weird how retcons can affect back issue prices? The issue was nothing special when it came out, and a writer way down the line decides to make something out of nothing, or change which character was actually there.

Examples? Uncanny X-Men 201 comes to mind, because Nathan was never intended to be Cable. New Mutants #98/X-Force #8 is the reverse, where it actually made the earlier issue less important (though #98 had its own reason to rise).

But how far can it go? What if Len Wein said "In Hulk #179, Wolverine is in disguise and is that fourth guy on the left on the top of page 11, and then he followed Hulk to Canada." What if some other writer came along next year and wrote that into continuity? How far will we go to believe that #179 is worth thousands?

You know what? I'm going to stock up on Strange Tales #104, because that white goo that Paste Pot Pete was shooting out was actually Anti-Venom. It's the first appearance of a symbiote in the Marvel Universe, or at least it will be when Marvel hires me to write it. (Joking, but you see where I'm going with this.)

 

 

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A couple that I recall.

Wolverine Vol 2 issue 41 had Sabretooth claim he was Wolverine’s father, treated at the time as a genuine retcon, which hugely increased demand for Iron Fist 14 in the 90s.

The Ben Reilly retcon in The Clone Saga increased demand and price of another Bronze Age comic, ASM 149, in the same decade.

Edited by Ken Aldred
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The one that really drives me crazy is Avengers #71. It's not even remotely close to being the first appearance of the Invaders. The idea that the GA heroes that appear in #71 are the Invaders is a retcon from 1977 - 8 years after this issue came out. The Invaders didn't actually debut until 1975, 6 years after Avengers #71! 

Similarly, Star Spangled War Stories #151 is the first appearance of Unknown Soldier. The idea that he is the same character from OOAW #168 is a retcon  - a really well done retcon - from SSWS #157. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Crimebuster said:

The one that really drives me crazy is Avengers #71. It's not even remotely close to being the first appearance of the Invaders. The idea that the GA heroes that appear in #71 are the Invaders is a retcon from 1977 - 8 years after this issue came out. The Invaders didn't actually debut until 1975, 6 years after Avengers #71! 

Yup.  I've always thought that as well.  The first appearance would be the first Golden Age comic in which Captain America, Namor and the Torch first teamed up.

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Another one.  Avengers 10 was the first appearance of Hercules until the late 90’s when it changed to being a space phantom disguised as Hercules That made Journey Into Mystery Annual 1 the first appearance.  Now Jim annual 1 is worth about twice what avengers 10 is worth in high grade.  Now Young Allies 16 may end up being the first appearance?  We’ll see how the relative values hold up with that new information.

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10 hours ago, thunsicker said:

Of course there was also Sersi/Sersy being retconned to be Circe and therefore Strange Tales 109 became her first appearance.  Now it's worth a lot more than it should be.

And Makkari, with Hurricane from Captain America Comics 1 retconned as his first appearance.

But, that was already blue chip material.

Yours is a much better example.

Edited by Ken Aldred
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So for me, as a fan of the Invaders, I value the Invaders run (and crossovers since its inception) as the most important books to own and the ones I spent money on. Avengers #71 would be a cool add on piece if I found for like $10-20 in decent shape...but I am not ever gonna spend more than that on it. And obviously any Golden Age team ups are true firsts and should be valuable not as being considered "Invaders" tie ins but simply as awesome Golden Age books.

Same goes for other retcons. If I find and X-Men 201 (which I have) for under $5, sure. Other than that, don't care enough to have it. But alas, I am one man and one man does not the market make. I feel like it is a lot of under 40 year old collectors who are driving this debate of "true firsts" and pushing the values of things like retcon first appearances, ad appearances and preview appearances to new and bizarre heights. And there are people out there willing to pay for it so can ya blame em? It just sucks in some cases because it can make some completionists feel like "oh, should I get that issue? Am I really missing out?"

I had that feeling with Web Of Spidey #18. I was like "it ties in to the Venom origin, I should get it" and I spent $15 on a book that was a super letdown and a laughable tie in to the Venom origin. Plus, to add insult to injury, I found a better copy months later in a collection and basically kept it for free. Lesson is to wait and don't overpay or even bother with a lot of these retcons. 

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29 minutes ago, comicginger1789 said:

So for me, as a fan of the Invaders, I value the Invaders run (and crossovers since its inception) as the most important books to own and the ones I spent money on

Being British, for me the real Invaders team needs to include Union Jack and Spitfire, not just Timely’s Golden Age top three characters. 
 

It then differentiates the team more from the All-Winners Squad.

Edited by Ken Aldred
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1 hour ago, Ken Aldred said:

Being British, for me the real Invaders team needs to include Union Jack and Spitfire, not just Timely’s Golden Age top three characters. 
 

It then differentiates the team more from the All-Winners Squad.

Good point! I love Union Jack! I think Ima have to dig out some Invaders for reading tonight

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6 minutes ago, Stephen Beer said:

 

Well, I'm glad I hit a little nerve! Collectors seldom behave rationally

 

I think we’ve seen a lot of evidence here that many boardies do think rationally, and have enough knowledge of comics not to just blindly go along with every bit of specious hyperbole made by the back issue market.

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