Why does CGC note both OOAW 168 and SSWS 151 as "First Appearance of The Unknown Soldier"? 0

[MisterX]

I don't know who Don Markstein is, but I guess he ran a popular website called Toonopedia. 

Wikipedia sites his article for their claim that OAAW 168 is the 1st app of the Unknown Soldier. 

However, where Mr. Markstein got his information from is not cited.

I used to have Chris Pedrin's  Big 5 DC war guide, but I sold it. I wonder now if there's some information in there. Also, I had a Kubert bio that I passed along to a friend, now I wish I had it to double-check.

P.S. I also see that Wikipedia cites a book called  The DC Comics Encyclopedia: The Definitive Guide to the Characters of the DC Universe.  

Anybody here have the Pedrin book of the DC Comics Encylopedia?

Edited September 15, 2020 by MisterX
Forgot another citation!

[Zonker]

On 9/15/2020 at 1:51 PM, MisterX said:

 

Anybody here have the Pedrin book of the DC Comics Encylopedia?

The Pedrin guide doesn't have too much to say about the Unknown Soldier.  Here are the relevant citations.  Not sure if it is significant that he treats the reprint in SSWS #157 as a Sgt Rock story.  In any event he doesn't note OAAW #168 as an appearance of the Unknown Soldier as later understood.  

Edited September 16, 2020 by Zonker
typo

[JazzMan]

It probably boils down to missed updates in CGC's database of record for each title.  Otherwise you wouldn't have this happen either...

 graded 07/27/2020

 graded 07/28/2020

CGC Needs to make up its mind on which is the 1st LL cover.

[Zonker]

I happened to be thumbing through the 1977 Sgt Rock Special the other day and this thread came to mind.

In 1977 Kanigher was claiming no credit for creating Kubert's Unknown Soldier, despite the shenanigans surrounding Star-Spangled War Stories #157.

 

(Note the letters page is signed R.K. even though he refers to himself in the 3rd person.)

Edited September 17, 2022 by Zonker
typo

[bronze johnny]

On 9/17/2022 at 10:00 AM, Zonker said:

I happened to be thumbing through the 1977 Sgt Rock Special the other day and this thread came to mind.

In 1977 Kanigher was claiming no credit for creating Kubert's Unknown Soldier, despite the shenanigans surrounding Star-Spangled War Stories #157.

 

(Note the letters page is signed R.K. even though he refers to himself in the 3rd person.)

Not sure I understand your point? Where’s the evidence suggesting OAAW 168 is not the Soldier’s first appearance? “Shenanigans” regarding SSWS 157? Did we have any references to a second Unknown Soldier anywhere like we later see, for one example, at the end of the Bronze Age with G.I. Robot? Kubert created the Unknown Soldier and retconned it to OAAW 168. The creator himself is responsible for making the connection. Not some other artist or writer doing a retcon 30 or 40 years later. There’s no evidence suggesting otherwise. There is speculation and characterizations that amount to? Kubert had one Unknown Soldier in mind because the Rock “…knew THE Unknown Soldier.” Did the Rock just know “…an Unknown Soldier.” Hence, SSWS 157’s connection to “THE Unknown Soldier” in OAAW 168. We only have these issues since Kubert himself never commented publicly about this. Still, after the Soldier and Rock continue to appear in their classic runs (OAAW, SSWS, Sgt. Rock, & Unknown Soldier) there’s never any mention of the Rock anywhere encountering another Unknown Soldier. Why is that? I had once thought SSWS 151 was the Soldier’s first appearance but also realized that the Soldier isn’t your average comic book lead character because we don’t who know he really is. That’s the beauty and mystery surrounding the Soldier. I like to believe that even the Soldier’s first appearance has somewhat of a mystery to it that we collectors will passionately debate over for as long as we live and love this hobby. Interestingly, there are some and I’m not suggesting you, who have a pecuniary interest in seeing SSWS 151 be defined as the Unknown Soldier’s first appearance because they own high grade copies and can’t find a high grade copy of OAAW 168 because they are scarce due to the black cover (I personally know a few who are interested in seeing this happen for pecuniary gain).

I went back to the prior post and want to mention that Pedrin’s book was first published in 1994, which was prior to the discovery of the Soldier’s first appearance in OAAW 168. Pedrin’s contributions to the comic book war genre are noteworthy and his book is a key reference source for Big 5 war collectors but defining the history of DC’s war books didn’t end with his publication. Keep in mind that a later discovery of a character’s first appearance isn’t unusual. The first appearance of the “Ancient Witch” in Yellowjacket Comics #7 is a recent discovery of one of the first horror hosts telling original stories in the history of comic books. This is nothing new and doesn’t discount the credibility of later discoveries of first appearances. OAAW 168 and SSWS 151 are must haves for the Soldier and Big 5 collector. I’m just hoping DC doesn’t decide to bring the Soldier back with a story that he’s given a DNA test and it turns out he’s Mademoiselle Marie! Then SSWS 84 is the Soldier’s first appearance! With DC and comics today you never know… 

[Zonker]

On 9/17/2022 at 12:11 PM, bronze johnny said:

Kubert had one Unknown Soldier in mind because the Rock “…knew THE Unknown Soldier.” Did the Rock just know “…an Unknown Soldier.” Hence, SSWS 157’s connection to “THE Unknown Soldier” in OAAW 168. We only have these issues since Kubert himself never commented publicly about this. Still, after the Soldier and Rock continue to appear in their classic runs (OAAW, SSWS, Sgt. Rock, & Unknown Soldier) there’s never any mention of the Rock anywhere encountering another Unknown Soldier. Why is that? I had once thought SSWS 151 was the Soldier’s first appearance but also realized that the Soldier isn’t your average comic book lead character because we don’t who know he really is. That’s the beauty and mystery surrounding the Soldier. I like to believe that even the Soldier’s first appearance has somewhat of a mystery to it that we collectors will passionately debate over for as long as we live and love this hobby.

I wouldn't see that much significance in a designation of "THE Unknown Soldier."  The concept of The Unknown Soldier pre-dates DC Comics, and there has been a monument to The Unknown Soldier in Arlington Cemetery since shortly after WWI.  Wiki Link  

 

 

[bronze johnny]

On 9/17/2022 at 12:50 PM, Zonker said:

I wouldn't see that much significance in a designation of "THE Unknown Soldier."  The concept of The Unknown Soldier pre-dates DC Comics, and there has been a monument to The Unknown Soldier in Arlington Cemetery since shortly after WWI.  Wiki Link  

 

 

Yes, and there was a Thor before JIM 83. I do see the significance when it’s Joe Kubert, the creator, who’s responsible for DC’s version of “THE Unknown Soldier” in OAAW 168

Edited September 17, 2022 by bronze johnny

[NP_Gresham]

This is similar to ST #97 being retconned as the first appearance of Aunt May and Uncle Ben

Who cares

The ‘unknown soldier’ first appeared SSWS #151

The guy in #OAAW #168 was NOT the unknown soldier - he was like the Plummer or handyman in Avengers #181 (Scot Lang) who only later becomes Ant-man.

Never bought into ST #97 or Avengers #181 and I am not buying OAAW #168

[Dr Zen]

The Unknow Soldier's Who's Who entry. For whatever that may or may not be worth