The Official November Heritage Auction Thread 2 2

[First Upgrade]

2 hours ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

What’s a Nason/McSpidey page?

A Nason/McSpidey page is a page of Todd McFarlane drawn original comic book art from The Amazing Spider-Man series which is being sold by Jeff Nason via Heritage Auctions.

[NelsonAI]

Jeff Nason collection on Heritage

Edited November 8, 2020 by NelsonAI
Typos

[jjonahjameson11]

Thanks!  Didn’t read the item description so I didn’t know it’s from Jeff ‘s collection 

[stinkininkin]

Fun fact-I'm the one who sold the Uncanny Xmen 268 cover to Jeff Nason, but I didn't know his name until I saw and read it right here just now. I barely remember the transaction honestly, but at least I now have the name.

[ShallowDan]

On 11/7/2020 at 2:24 AM, drdroom said:

All of which I'm quoting here partly in memoriam for a collector I didn't know who instantly proved himself to be the real deal. I regret that I never had any further dealings with him. He didn't sound like a guy who was expecting to die in a year. It sounds like if he were here to oversee the sale, maybe the Heritage listing would acknowledge the amateur resto?

 

Obviously this sort of thing is definitely none of our business, but my impression is that Mr. Gorrell's death was very unexpected.  Back in early September, I sent him a CAF message, inquiring about a piece of strip art he had listed for sale earlier this year.  After a couple of weeks went by without a response, I ended up checking out his personal website (I learned that he was an artist himself), hoping to find an alternate email address to directly reach out to him.  It was there that I saw a notice of his death that his family had posted.  From what I learned there, he died in May.  He was still posting/commenting on CAF as late as April, so I'm guessing that whatever happened, it was something sudden.  

My impression from his website was that he didn't have a spouse or any children.  I had debated reaching out to his family, to see if the estate had any plans for his collection (not a "I'd like to offer you pennies on the dollar" sort of thing, but rather a "please be aware that this stuff isn't worthless" message).  So I was happy (or at least happy for them) to see the listings pop up on Heritage.  Much better that they be able to benefit from the sale than it all end up in the garbage.     

[Bronty]

I had the same impression that it was sudden; I had asked about a piece as well.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Bronty

[comix4fun]

19 hours ago, stinkininkin said:

Fun fact-I'm the one who sold the Uncanny Xmen 268 cover to Jeff Nason, but I didn't know his name until I saw and read it right here just now. I barely remember the transaction honestly, but at least I now have the name.

[drdroom]

Update: I wrote to HA about the Titan splash and Todd Hignite got right back to me & said they would investigate, update the listing & inform bidders. Might knock a few grand off the price, but I suspect it will still improve greatly on the Ebay sale. A very handsome splash, much nicer than if Ayers had inked it.

[Bronty]

I love Kirby Ayers.  

[Rick2you2]

On 10/30/2020 at 6:54 PM, jjonahjameson11 said:

Bidding has started, and there's some strong prices already!

I just read an article on “chandelier bidding”. Those could very well be fake bids designed to warm up the bidding. Why would anyone bid high in a bidding round which is going to last for weeks? That leaves way too much time for prospective bidders to out bid the high bid and become the highest bidder.
 

Example, the aforementioned Phantom Stranger story shot up almost immediately to $5,000, and then, bidding stopped cold. If these were real bidders, that doesn’t make sense. Of course, this was also a featured piece, meaning Heritage has a particular interest in seeing it sold. Hmmm....

 I will no longer pay attention to high early bids in a long auction— every reason for me now to think they were triggered by the house and not real bidders. I will simply assume this is a form of bid rigging and ignore it.

[Bronty]

With respect, I think you’re way outsmarting yourself.   People bid early all the time for all kinds of reasons.   I do it myself at times.   
 

You’re not really expecting an early bid to hold up, no.   But that does not mean it is an illegitimate bid or a bid by the house or that it wouldn’t be honoured.   
 

People thrill bid, track bid, bid because they are bored, bid because they are drunk, bid because the name of the day ends in a Y.   They bid to goose comps on examples similar to things they own (neither illegal nor dishonest if they are willing to cut the check if they win).   They bid for information, they bid for “price discovery” , they bid because they will be out of town and busy on the date of the auction.   They bid for a million different reasons , and assuming one reason or another based on little to no information is flawed, lazy and often rooted in an emotional reaction rather than in critical thinking. 
 

And all of that doesn’t even address the most obvious part - that a bid That Rick2you2 considers high may be a bid that someone else considers low. 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Bronty

[Rick2you2]

1 hour ago, Bronty said:

With respect, I think you’re way outsmarting yourself.   People bid early all the time for all kinds of reasons.   I do it myself at times.   
 

You’re not really expecting an early bid to hold up, no.   But that does not mean it is an illegitimate bid or a bid by the house or that it wouldn’t be honoured.   
 

People thrill bid, track bid, bid because they are bored, bid because they are drunk, bid because the name of the day ends in a Y.   They bid to goose comps on examples similar to things they own (neither illegal nor dishonest if they are willing to cut the check if they win).   They bid for information, they bid for “price discovery” , they bid for a million different reasons , and assuming one reason or another based on little to no information is flawed, lazy and often rooted in an emotional reaction rather than in critical thinking. 
 

And all of that doesn’t even address the most obvious part - that a bid YOU consider high may be a bid that someone else considers low. 

You're right; it doesn't mean there was an illegitimate bid. I track bid fairly often, when something first shows up. I will also sometimes throw in a bid just to see what sort of interest there really is in a piece (and maybe win it).

But the effect on the ultimate winner is the same: it raises the base amount he/she will have to pay for the piece. It may have gone there anyway, but the bid locks in the floor.

A bid I consider to be high is not illegitimate just because it is high. But a bid very early in the bidding process is something I will still consider suspect, even if bid for proper reasons. Particularly if the bid seems substantial and there is little or no follow up for some time.

[Bronty]

“You’re right?”

Thats now how this internet debate thing is done!  Lol 

but yeah, I’m glad you agree.   There really are so many reasons someone might bid.   
 

As for raising the floor, even that I don’t view as illegitimate necessarily.   If I am willing to pay 5k for any starlin page no matter what... what’s wrong with someone bidding early and forcing people to pay 5k to join the club.   (I’m assuming here that They don’t know the seller or anything).   I would have no problem with that tbh.   I understand why you might view early bids with more suspicion , but ultimately those early bids almost never win in the end.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Bronty

[vodou]

50 minutes ago, Bronty said:

(I’m assuming here that They don’t know the seller or anything).

50 minutes ago, Bronty said:

I understand why you might view early bids with more suspicion , but ultimately those early bids almost never win in the end.

Not true in the weekly Monday night sessions. I'm the live underbidder on at least 10 pieces every Monday. I'm fighting the computer and the computer wins - because I finally back off the clickage at the last line of financial sanity. Multiplied by at least 10 and regularly more too. The Computer is representing proxy bids (or as some have privately posited JimBot ) placed earlier than live session, and they win, making me the underbidder.

FWIW...I very rarely see any of those pieces hit CAF in the weeks following. Maybe all going to Black Hole Collections or...

[NelsonAI]

While I agree there are always going to be shill bids on any auction platform, there are plenty of legitimate reasons why people bid high early on.

- If you are on a limited total budget to spend, you have to prioritize where your $ is going.  You would rather be blown out early on an item so you know just how much $ you have left to spend.  Then you can go all out after pieces you really want.

- Sometimes you forget to bid.  I have a busy schedule.  If I get blown out early, at least I got my bids in.

 

[Bronty]

18 minutes ago, vodou said:

Not true in the weekly Monday night sessions. I'm the live underbidder on at least 10 pieces every Monday. I'm fighting the computer and the computer wins - because I finally back off the clickage at the last line of financial sanity. Multiplied by at least 10 and regularly more too. The Computer is representing proxy bids (or as some have privately posited JimBot ) placed earlier than live session, and they win, making me the underbidder.

FWIW...I very rarely see any of those pieces hit CAF in the weeks following. Maybe all going to Black Hole Collections or...

re Kool aid - I’m simply drawing a line between shills and non shills.   Obviously they are different and obviously both happen.   
 

re Monday’s - I could see that, there is less bid activity period on Mondays. 

[dem1138]

14 hours ago, drdroom said:

Update: I wrote to HA about the Titan splash and Todd Hignite got right back to me & said they would investigate, update the listing & inform bidders. Might knock a few grand off the price, but I suspect it will still improve greatly on the Ebay sale. A very handsome splash, much nicer than if Ayers had inked it.

Well now they pulled it.

A lot you have been tracking, lot # 94083, previously described as: "Jack Kirby and Russ Heath Tales of Suspense #28 Splash Page 1 Original Art (Marvel, 1962). A fantastic splash page that could easily have been used as one of Kirby's famous "monster" covers of the day! This one's extra special with inks by Russ Heath, renowned as one of the great Silver Age pencilers in his own right. Rendered at twice-up scale in ink over graphite on Bristol board with an image area of 12.5" x 18.5". The slightly toned board has adhesive residue along the back edges, with light smudging and staining from handling wear. In Very Good condition. From the Estate of Jeff Gorrell." in the 2020 November 19 - 22 Comics & Comic Art Signature Auction - Dallas, #7236 has been withdrawn from the auction and is no longer available for tracking.

[First Upgrade]

10 minutes ago, dem1138 said:

Well now they pulled it.

The withdrawn lot...made the front cover of the catalog...huh...

[Rick2you2]

3 hours ago, NelsonAI said:

While I agree there are always going to be shill bids on any auction platform, there are plenty of legitimate reasons why people bid high early on.

- If you are on a limited total budget to spend, you have to prioritize where your $ is going.  You would rather be blown out early on an item so you know just how much $ you have left to spend.  Then you can go all out after pieces you really want.

- Sometimes you forget to bid.  I have a busy schedule.  If I get blown out early, at least I got my bids in.

 

To be clear, by bidding early, I mean the first several days during the auction period. 

If  we are talking about pieces in which competition is expected,  I don’t see how bidding early helps you where there are live sessions afterward or proxies. The bid stays on top until someone bests it, but that won’t happen until the end of the auction when you get into  the live bidding round.

Forgetting to bid, that one I understand.

[Rick2you2]

4 hours ago, Bronty said:

“You’re right?”

Thats now how this internet debate thing is done!  Lol 

but yeah, I’m glad you agree.   There really are so many reasons someone might bid.   
 

As for raising the floor, even that I don’t view as illegitimate necessarily.   If I am willing to pay 5k for any starlin page no matter what... what’s wrong with someone bidding early and forcing people to pay 5k to join the club.   (I’m assuming here that They don’t know the seller or anything).   I would have no problem with that tbh.   I understand why you might view early bids with more suspicion , but ultimately those early bids almost never win in the end.

Not much reason to debate a subject I wasn’t thinking about.
As for bidding early to force people to join the club, joining the club means you are providing price support for a piece by forcing others to outbid you. From my experience,I think that tends to result in a higher price along the pricing spectrum than I would like to pay by introducing early competition. I have inadvertently done that on a few occasions, for the reason you gave (drive out casual interest). Iknow you don’t intend to help the seller by doing so, but that is the result.