Comic Art Commission how long is too long and what to do 1 1

[exitmusicblue]

Maybe I'm weird -- and much of my collection is quirky -- but I wouldn't mind that Strange toooo much.  Feels so personal, which ain't always a bad thing..  }:-) Just cracks me up.  Maybe it's funnier from the outside looking in.

[exitmusicblue]

23 minutes ago, grapeape said:

That’s the one..... He who lacks patience gets Goldened.....

Def showed this to the wifey and she lost it, too...

[grapeape]

13 minutes ago, exitmusicblue said:

Def showed this to the wifey and she lost it, too...

I think it’s worth considerably more then $537 now. I mean as a conversation piece alone at the next dinner party/original comic art gathering.

😂

[ShallowDan]

I don't think anyone has mentioned the payment terms, but I imagine very few published/known artists would tackle a piece featuring a client-created character without getting payment in full at the start of the project, so I wouldn't be bothered by that aspect of the transaction at all.  Logically, they will always have other opportunities to sell a piece based on a published character, if the commission falls through, but there's a much diminished chance of that when it's something super-specific.

As far as the timeline goes, I don't have a ton of experience with commissioning, but I usually ask the artist for a worst-case time estimate, add another 20% or so to the length of time, and then ask that they reach out to me with an update if it's not complete my that date:  I'm fairly specific with this request, but still have had mixed results.

I've never had any nightmare scenarios like I've seen others recount, but it's obvious that some artists are just lousy at handling that aspect of their business.

[ShallowDan]

20 minutes ago, exitmusicblue said:

Maybe I'm weird -- and much of my collection is quirky -- but I wouldn't mind that Strange toooo much.  Feels so personal, which ain't always a bad thing..  }:-) Just cracks me up.  Maybe it's funnier from the outside looking in.

I could almost agree, EXCEPT for the fact that the jerk misspelled "virtue".  That just adds to the insulting manner of the thing..  

[exitmusicblue]

6 minutes ago, ShallowDan said:

I could almost agree, EXCEPT for the fact that the jerk misspelled "virtue".  That just adds to the insulting manner of the thing..  

Aye, that's unacceptable. Dude fumbled it right at the end.  Like someone insulting you with "ur an insufficiently_thoughtful_person."

[grapeape]

3 hours ago, ShallowDan said:

I could almost agree, EXCEPT for the fact that the jerk misspelled "virtue".  That just adds to the insulting manner of the thing..  

haha....yeah other threads have beat this to death but VIRU is certainly a candidate for nomination to the Urban Dictionary.

Viru:  Also known as the Golden Rule:

To lack a perceived quality (exp patience) as ascertained by one who agrees to terms and does not follow through and gets P OFF when called on it.

”I didn’t keep my promise and you called me out so you lack VIRU.

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by grapeape
Correction V I R U E

[nathanlogan]

22 minutes ago, ShallowDan said:

I don't think anyone has mentioned the payment terms, but I imagine very few published/known artists would tackle a piece featuring a client-created character without getting payment in full at the start of the project, so I wouldn't be bothered by that aspect of the transaction at all.  Logically, they will always have other opportunities to sell a piece based on a published character, if the commission falls through, but there's a much diminished chance of that when it's something super-specific.

As far as the timeline goes, I don't have a ton of experience with commissioning, but I usually ask the artist for a worst-case time estimate, add another 20% or so to the length of time, and then ask that they reach out to me with an update if it's not complete my that date:  I'm fairly specific with this request, but still have had mixed results.

I've never had any nightmare scenarios like I've seen others recount, but it's obvious that some artists are just lousy at handling that aspect of their business.

This is a really good point and makes a lot of sense to me. Absolutely logical reason for him to ask for the payment in advance in my case. Really just a matter of the amount of time and lack of communication on it I'd say, but I also don't know his life and things have been pretty strange since February. 

[alexgross.com]

artists are the worst.

[exitmusicblue]

3 hours ago, grapeape said:

haha....yeah other threads have beat this to death but VIRU is certainly a candidate for nomination to the Urban Dictionary.

Viru:  Also known as the Golden Rule:

To lack a perceived quality (exp patience) as ascertained by one who agrees to terms and does not follow through and gets P OFF when called on it.

”I didn’t keep my promise and you called me out so you lack VIRU.

 

There's an E at the end, my friend, he almost made it !

[grapeape]

34 minutes ago, exitmusicblue said:

There's an E at the end, my friend, he almost made it !

Gerry should have spotted Golden the T

💡 

[Rick2you2]

8 hours ago, grapeape said:

Edited September 18, 2020 by Rick2you2

[Will_K]

8 hours ago, grapeape said:

Gerry should have spotted Golden the T

And the E.

Renee Witterstaetter was acting as Golden's representative.  So whatever the "real" issues, in hindsight, I think Renee did not serve Golden well at the time.  Because the whole episode went public... it has become the gift that keeps on giving, more than 10 years later.

Also public was a statement from Golden where he said that he would not do a replacement drawing (which he ultimately did).  I'm not sure if Golden's statement went out directly or if Renee just released Golden's statement.  If she released it, I think it would've been better if she just read it and told Golden, "I can't release this.  Yeah I get it, you're pissed.  But now we have to fix this."

The last time "viru" was revived (where it was mentioned that there were a total of 4 "viru" pieces):

https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/460473-patience-is-a-virue-by-golden

Edited September 18, 2020 by Will_K

[exitmusicblue]

1 hour ago, Will_K said:

And the E.

Renee Witterstaetter was acting as Golden's representative.  So whatever the "real" issues, in hindsight, I think Renee did not serve Golden well at the time.  Because the whole episode went public... it has become the gift that keeps on giving, more than 10 years later.

Also public was a statement from Golden where he said that he would not do a replacement drawing (which he ultimately did).  I'm not sure if Golden's statement went out directly or if Renee just released Golden's statement.  If she released it, I think it would've been better if she just read it and told Golden, "I can't release this.  Yeah I get it, you're pissed.  But now we have to fix this."

The last time "viru" was revived (where it was mentioned that there were a total of 4 "viru" pieces):

https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/460473-patience-is-a-virue-by-golden

There's an E beneath the U, fwiw.

Very fun story.  And yup, this qualifies as legend.  }:-)  

[alexgross.com]

i'm not a comic artist but i am a professional artist who has done plenty of commissions in my life. hence my earlier joke.

but i will say that on commissions i never take the full fee up front, even when it's offered. that reduces my motivation to work. i prefer half up front and half on completion because it gives me something to work towards. i have several collector friends who have paid other fine artists the full fee up front and then end up waiting around forever, complaining. so this is not only comic book artists that are slow or blowing it off completely.

i understand that sought after artists may not negotiate how much they take up front. but if you can, you should. 

[RBerman]

14 hours ago, ShallowDan said:

I could almost agree, EXCEPT for the fact that the jerk misspelled "virtue".  That just adds to the insulting manner of the thing..  

It just adds to the absurdity of Golden complaining that a paying client expected him to hold up his end of an agreement.I'm sure I'm not the only person who put Golden on the "avoid" list as a result of this episode. Though I too would now enjoy owning such an infamous conversation piece. Art from the heart!

I didn't realize that there were four affected pieces. I'd heard that John Byrne sent a sympathy freebie in response, but not that Golden had also supplied a replacement commission. How was it?

[Will_K]

22 minutes ago, RBerman said:

I didn't realize that there were four affected pieces. I'd heard that John Byrne sent a sympathy freebie in response, but not that Golden had also supplied a replacement commission. How was it?

I didn't know there were 4 until it was mentioned in that topic/thread I referenced above.  Re: the Golden replacement... I recall there was a comment that Dr Strange resembled Geraldo Rivera.  I mean, maybe.  But I think at that point, the well was poisoned.  And there was still some "piling on".

[ShallowDan]

1 hour ago, www.alexgross.com said:

i'm not a comic artist but i am a professional artist who has done plenty of commissions in my life. hence my earlier joke.

but i will say that on commissions i never take the full fee up front, even when it's offered. that reduces my motivation to work. i prefer half up front and half on completion because it gives me something to work towards. i have several collector friends who have paid other fine artists the full fee up front and then end up waiting around forever, complaining. so this is not only comic book artists that are slow or blowing it off completely.

i understand that sought after artists may not negotiate how much they take up front. but if you can, you should. 

This "half up front, remaining half upon completion" is always my preference as well.  It just seems like the fairest arrangement for everyone, since both parties have some skin in the game.  

If you don't mind me asking, as an artist what would you feel is the best approach for the person on the other end of the transaction to take if they find themselves in a situation where the completion date has been pushed out past a reasonable point.  I think a lot of folks fear that if they get too pushy then the piece will get rushed, with the final results reflecting that.

Also, something I didn't mention in my previous post, but I always try to make sure that the idea behind a commission project is one that the artist is fully on board with and enthusiastic about (usually I'll pitch 2 or 3 ideas and let them pick the one that most inspires them).  It's just a gut feeling, but I can't help but imagine that if the artist likes the general idea of a piece, the end results will be all the better.  In your experiences, is there any truth to that?  

[grapeape]

There are many artists out there that are trustworthy. I met Bob Layton in Oceanside California at the Boys and Girls Club. It was for a fun local 1 day comic con. I paid Bob up front to complete a Dr. Doom Commission. I fully anticipated he wouldn’t have time to complete it for sometime. He’s very popular and Ironman at its zenith at this time.

Well I’ll be darned if he didn’t work on the piece during the convention and presented it to me at the end of the day without the long wait and hassle. 

Still each commissioner has to work a transaction they feel comfortable with.

[grapeape]

2 hours ago, exitmusicblue said:

There's an E beneath the U, fwiw.

Very fun story.  And yup, this qualifies as legend.  }:-)  

My friends I apologize as I further messed with the Golden Legend.

Presume that Golden meant Virtue?

Came up with V I R U E

Then I came along being the 2+2=5 guy that I am, and wrote V I R U half hoping that we could keep the joke going until we got down to V U.....

Like a Virue Virus I infected the thread with VIRU, since corrected in my post.

Michael Golden = VIRUE = legend

I feel sorry for Gerry but I think he actually made out ok in the end. The board now has a legend, a cautionary  tale.

It feels like an EC Comic.

Have Patience lest Ye fall victim to VIRUE  💀 

FYI I have met Michael in person and he’s a wonderful guy. He really is. He’s funny and intelligent. Very giving of his time. I have no idea how he feels about this whole ordeal today. 
 

I just think it’s important especially for my homies the NEWBS to know that one story does not necessarily capture the complete picture.

Things I heard from others starting out.

John Buscema hates comics and hates the fans even worse. A monster.

 Not at all my experience. John was kind, thoughtful and he enjoyed talking with me as much as I with him. He showed an appreciation of the work he created.

Bruce Timm is unbearable!!! 

He won’t draw what I want. Haha....he’s not unbearable but yes at the last convention you had to sign on a list and you could put what character you wanted. But Bruce would draw what he wanted instead for a flat $200. At the end of the day you may or may not want what he drew for you. So you don’t pay he sells to someone else. 
Ecentric? Hell yes! I loved it. Some didn’t. I asked him up front, “Bruce who do you NOT want to draw.” Please don’t ask me for Harley, or Batman.,,,.”

Haha!!! Of course—for us it’s fresh for a creative artist it’s like oh no not again.

In other words, make your own experiences. 
 

🍇.....🦍