1st appearance in comics after other media 1 1

[Ablation Steve]

10 hours ago, William-James88 said:

If Harley only appeared in that comic and not on the show, she'd probably be less popular and thus never entering the cultural zeitgeist as she has now, which would make her comic worth A LOT less.

And let me ask you this, what about Journey into Mystery 83? Stories of Thor had been around for over 1000 years before that comic, by your line of questioning, there is no reason for that comic to be worth much of anything. 

Dude, it's the first appearance of Donald Blake. DONALD BLAKE! I don't think Thor had much to do with it. 

[valiantman]

10 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

15 hours ago, valiantman said:

16 hours ago, miraclemet said:

Ok let me see if i can say this.

Assuming two characters are of equal popularity (good luck measuring that!) and their first appearance in comics are of equal population (copies printed, copies slabbed) i would assume that the "1st appearance" character issue is valued higher than the "1st appearance in a comic" character issue.

There are at least two other requirements for a true test... 1) age of the comics need to be the same, 2) the characters need to have similar depictions in the other media (both are from animations or both are based on live actors, etc.).

I don't see how either of those are relevant if the characters actually have equal demand (popularity) and there is equal supply of their 1st appearances. Of course, as mentioned, popularity is hardly simple to measure and supply may not be much, if any, easier.

I already mentioned it - 1st Star Trek in comics versus 1st Scooby Doo in comics - both are very similar books, but the average Scooby Doo #1 is worth double the average Star Trek #1 even though Star Trek is a bigger franchise.  Scooby Doo is a comic book based on a television show of animated comic book drawings.  Star Trek comics are based on live actors.  That's the main difference, and Scooby Doo is winning because of it.

[silversurfer275]

10 hours ago, William-James88 said:

If Harley only appeared in that comic and not on the show, she'd probably be less popular and thus never entering the cultural zeitgeist as she has now, which would make her comic worth A LOT less.

And let me ask you this, what about Journey into Mystery 83? Stories of Thor had been around for over 1000 years before that comic, by your line of questioning, there is no reason for that comic to be worth much of anything. 

not even to mention the low print run on batman adventures 12 which is definitely a factor on why its so much

[miraclemet]

1 hour ago, valiantman said:

I already mentioned it - 1st Star Trek in comics versus 1st Scooby Doo in comics - both are very similar books, but the average Scooby Doo #1 is worth double the average Star Trek #1 even though Star Trek is a bigger franchise.  Scooby Doo is a comic book based on a television show of animated comic book drawings.  Star Trek comics are based on live actors.  That's the main difference, and Scooby Doo is winning because of it.

When looking at census it seems that Star Trek is more available.

Scooby has 222 slabbed copies with the median grade around 6.0. 

Star Trek has 848 slabbed copies with the median grade around 6.5

So I think that is the main reason for the market value difference. Scoob is 4x rarer than Trek. So the market availability is not really controlled here. 

I'd attribute the difference in relative ability due to Star Trek having an older audience vs Scoob, meaning more comics were "collected" or saved rather than read and tossed (just thinking about the behaviors of an 12 yo vs an 8 yo)

[valiantman]

5 minutes ago, miraclemet said:

1 hour ago, valiantman said:

I already mentioned it - 1st Star Trek in comics versus 1st Scooby Doo in comics - both are very similar books, but the average Scooby Doo #1 is worth double the average Star Trek #1 even though Star Trek is a bigger franchise.  Scooby Doo is a comic book based on a television show of animated comic book drawings.  Star Trek comics are based on live actors.  That's the main difference, and Scooby Doo is winning because of it.

When looking at census it seems that Star Trek is more available.

Scooby has 222 slabbed copies with the median grade around 6.0. 

Star Trek has 848 slabbed copies with the median grade around 6.5

So I think that is the main reason for the market value difference. Scoob is 4x rarer than Trek. So the market availability is not really controlled here. 

I'd attribute the difference in relative ability due to Star Trek having an older audience vs Scoob, meaning more comics were "collected" or saved rather than read and tossed (just thinking about the behaviors of an 12 yo vs an 8 yo)

Possibly - but try naming a bigger property than Star Trek which has fewer than 1,000 copies on the CGC Census.  Star Wars is closer to 10,000.

TMNT #1 has less than 1,000 copies and the prices for TMNT #1 are twenty times higher than Star Trek #1 for an average copy.  TMNT wasn't big until the cartoons.

Either Star Trek #1 is extremely undervalued, or there is a significant "discount" when a comic book 1st appearance happens for a real-world actor vs. animation.

The first appearance of Doctor Who in comics is basically worthless.  The Four Color series is full of 1st-appearance-in-comics for real-world actors in television/movies for decades and they're usually very cheap... unless it's Donald Duck, known best for animation.

[Lazyboy]

6 hours ago, valiantman said:

16 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

21 hours ago, valiantman said:

22 hours ago, miraclemet said:

Ok let me see if i can say this.

Assuming two characters are of equal popularity (good luck measuring that!) and their first appearance in comics are of equal population (copies printed, copies slabbed) i would assume that the "1st appearance" character issue is valued higher than the "1st appearance in a comic" character issue.

There are at least two other requirements for a true test... 1) age of the comics need to be the same, 2) the characters need to have similar depictions in the other media (both are from animations or both are based on live actors, etc.).

I don't see how either of those are relevant if the characters actually have equal demand (popularity) and there is equal supply of their 1st appearances. Of course, as mentioned, popularity is hardly simple to measure and supply may not be much, if any, easier.

I already mentioned it - 1st Star Trek in comics versus 1st Scooby Doo in comics - both are very similar books, but the average Scooby Doo #1 is worth double the average Star Trek #1 even though Star Trek is a bigger franchise.  Scooby Doo is a comic book based on a television show of animated comic book drawings.  Star Trek comics are based on live actors.  That's the main difference, and Scooby Doo is winning because of it.

miraclemet was comparing a real first appearance to a first appearance in a comic. Whether your point is valid or not, your post is about something completely different.

[miraclemet]

11 minutes ago, Jimmy11 said:

I thought Scooby Doo #1 was only expensive because of it's rarity?

it is MORE expensive because of it's rarity. 

It maintains value as a 1st appearance in comics of a pop culture character

It's also notable in that his first comic appearance (Dec '69) came just a few months after his first appearance on TV (Sept '69)

By comparison Star Trek #1 came out in July of '67, after Season 1 (which started in September of '66)  had completed, and just a month before Season 2 was starting. 

[Pantodude]

Seems like the significant impact and enfuring appeal of Star Trek (like Scooby) is now undeniable, if it hasn't been already for decades.  Star Trek has had a live-action multi-year TV series in basically every decade since 1960!   And now "Picard" is in the works.  Not to mention the movie after movie, and numerous other properties.  Start Trek #1 has had decent valuations over the years, just not lofy enough it seems.  Those are really low census numbers for the Scooby #1 and Star Trek #1, particularly in high grade.  Sooner or later the market will (must) take note, especially for the higher-graded books?   So hard to find.  Anyway, some books just matter, and Star Trek, like Scooby, are in that rare, special company of non-superheroes dominating pop culture for generations.  In his own way, William Shatner (and Nimoy, of course), was The Man, reaching the rarified air like Stan Lee.  But Captain Kirk too.   And Scooby was his  Best Friend.     .  

Edited February 1, 2021 by Pantodude

[Namtak]

Its old news always been comic collecter will always want the first comic appearance be the shadow was radio, lex luthor and kryptonite was in radio ,scooby doo was first in tv but the first gold key issu is worth quite a lot of $$$ what i dont understand is the first appearance in continuity they did for Harley and batman beyond those shouldnt rise much but they do!! 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Namtak