What exactly did this auction winner just buy? 0

[glendgold]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Marvel-The-Uncanny-X-Men-234-COVER-Color-Key-1-1-RARE-Item-Wolverine-Cover-/164401552059?hash=item2647189abb%3Ag%3A3MoAAOSw8vpfbhb5&LH_BIN=1&nma=true&si=SdO%2BevSJNJcYgh%2FbM45ehaAmZQY%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I genuinely don't know.

[zhamlau]

6 minutes ago, glendgold said:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Marvel-The-Uncanny-X-Men-234-COVER-Color-Key-1-1-RARE-Item-Wolverine-Cover-/164401552059?hash=item2647189abb%3Ag%3A3MoAAOSw8vpfbhb5&LH_BIN=1&nma=true&si=SdO%2BevSJNJcYgh%2FbM45ehaAmZQY%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I genuinely don't know.

The mechanical color separations, each layer printed on its own sheet. Guess that’s something neat.

[grapeape]

1 hour ago, glendgold said:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Marvel-The-Uncanny-X-Men-234-COVER-Color-Key-1-1-RARE-Item-Wolverine-Cover-/164401552059?hash=item2647189abb%3Ag%3A3MoAAOSw8vpfbhb5&LH_BIN=1&nma=true&si=SdO%2BevSJNJcYgh%2FbM45ehaAmZQY%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I genuinely don't know.

[ESeffinga]

Apparently nothing, as it has been re-listed for sale.

And for anyone new to the comic OA section of eBay and collecting in general that happens to be reading this... if you are not already familiar with comic production processes, stay away from this until you are 150% more familiar. The bulk of this separation/overlay stuff on eBay is totally made at home garbage, preying in an audience that just doesn’t know. And the bulk of the real stuff is mere curiosity trinkets. Very little of the real production material has much if any worth. 
 

There is the slimmest chance this is some kind of watercolor airbrush under painting with one of those black line transparencies under it. But who can tell, as there are no actual photos of the layers, and zip for worthwhile description. Both of which leaves me seeing the usual red flags.

Edited September 26, 2020 by ESeffinga

[grapeape]

🚩🚩🚩💀🚩🚩🚩
 

Relisted...

For our Newbies: when dealing with eBay, when you see an item “sell” on eBay and then it very quickly gets Relisted....most likely the sellers friendly shadow bidders accidentally “bought” the item trying to drive the price up.

Not saying that’s what happened here. 
 

🚩

Edited September 26, 2020 by grapeape

[Siege Perilous]

Yikes! That person bought a matted slightly better version of a computer print out for $450?

[glendgold]

He has another one for a different comic, too, just as vaguely described: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Marvel-Age-87-GHOST-RIDER-COVER-Color-Key-Film-by-Marvel-1-1-RARE/164364000290?hash=item2644db9c22:g:ngEAAOSwBCtfTpob

Acetate, right? My impression is that if you have the right kind of printer and a high-rez scan you can just load up pretty much any comic and make one of these that will be identical.  Like, if I wanted to I could have a rare 1/1 AF 15 or whatever?

[aokartman]

1 minute ago, glendgold said:

He has another one for a different comic, too, just as vaguely described: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Marvel-Age-87-GHOST-RIDER-COVER-Color-Key-Film-by-Marvel-1-1-RARE/164364000290?hash=item2644db9c22:g:ngEAAOSwBCtfTpob

Acetate, right? My impression is that if you have the right kind of printer and a high-rez scan you can just load up pretty much any comic and make one of these that will be identical.  Like, if I wanted to I could have a rare 1/1 AF 15 or whatever?

Why wouldn't you just take or swipe a scan of the actual cover and make an 11 X 17 copy for yourself?  Or swipe a scan of some original art and do the same thing?

A lot cheaper.

With some actual handwork, like some color guides display, color guides have interest to me, but acetates (fake or real) are down on the list without provenance.

Best, David S. Albright

[wurstisart]

15 hours ago, ESeffinga said:

Apparently nothing, as it has been re-listed for sale.

And for anyone new to the comic OA section of eBay and collecting in general that happens to be reading this... if you are not already familiar with comic production processes, stay away from this until you are 150% more familiar. The bulk of this separation/overlay stuff on eBay is totally made at home garbage, preying in an audience that just doesn’t know. And the bulk of the real stuff is mere curiosity trinkets. Very little of the real production material has much if any worth. 
 

There is the slimmest chance this is some kind of watercolor airbrush under painting with one of those black line transparencies under it. But who can tell, as there are no actual photos of the layers, and zip for worthwhile description. Both of which leaves me seeing the usual red flags.

„There is the slimmest chance this is some kind of watercolor airbrush under painting with one of those black line transparencies under it. But who can tell, as there are no actual photos of the layers, and zip for worthwhile description. Both of which leaves me seeing the usual red flags.“

 I actually have one of those and was always wondering what I have ?  Am you shed some light on this ? What is it ? 

[ESeffinga]

Pictures would help, but if you have a hand colored painting with a clear acetate overlay with the line art on it, then it’s probably a work from the late 80s to late 90s period. Before that time and the birth of the prestige format comic paper, print quality was too rough and lousy to reproduce painted comics properly. After that period; the need for shooting the art went away as the line would would be digitally applied over the painting, after being scanned.

As to what it is, more than likely the art was drawn, inked and then someone possibly listed as the colorist in the book, or even the artist themselves depending on the project, painted the piece, with the intention of the ink work laying over the top of it. Different people had different methods for this. But the final product was intended to have the acetate laid over too and then the whole thing photographed for use as the printed piece. Whether for a cover or an interior page. The colors having been printed directly from the art you have. Sometimes colored light boxes over the pencils. Sometimes colored on a blue line of the art. Then the ink art overlay was applied on top for reproduction.

-

This is different from the much more common color guide, where the colorist would take a reduced xerox copy of the inked page and apply dyes to the art and then mark that up with the actual color codes for the printer to go by.

And then there is the thing that very rarely exists, and that people all the type put up faked versions of which is actual printed acetate color plates. Real acetate plates would be a registered set of 4. One in Cyan, one in Magenta, one in Yellow and one in Black. Each one has only the part of the color spectrum it takes to make up the mix of colors in the printed page. They are small, line the size of the comic. A printable size on your average household printer, and most of those can print on clear sheets, so enterprising comes artists love to fake them. Most do it wrong and do not print separations though, which is the first clue.

 All overlaid on each other they kind of look like something. Most of the real stuff doesn’t survive because it’s really just a byproduct of printing, and the materials it is printed on were never designed to be archival. It was designed to be run and thrown away. I wouldn’t want it near any of my art if I was interested in having any of the real separation plates. The chemicals on that stuff are not ideal. And as it relates to art, IMO it’s a more visually appealing version of having the typewriter ribbon off the typewriter that a given writer used to type the -script for the book. Or having his ink cartridge from his desktop printer.

Or maybe less cool version of having a metal printers plate. Those are rare too, mostly because they’d get melted down and recycled into new plates, from what I have heard.

-

But if it is hand painted, or painted with an airbrush, it was colors by someone that were shot on camera and used to print directly from those colors. So the closest thing to color original art you get for some books. Examples of creators that have done work like that would be Lynn Varley for Frank Miller. Laura Allred has done a lot of pieces like that for Mike Allred. Mark Wheatley did some work like that for Marc Hempel. I’m sure there are many dozens of collaborators who’ve done work that way.

 

 

[wurstisart]

Thank you for the explanation.

Here is what I have.

The printed lines are the actual cover, you even see all the typical notes on the overlay.

[ESeffinga]

Yup. Looks like it was painted on a blue line board. It’s like blue line inks, but in this case, painted blue line for colors. Look up who the colorist on the cover is and there you go. That’s who did that bit. Somewhere out there is the inked art too.

[wurstisart]

Are these common ?

I honestly never paid attention but also never noticed they are out there 

[aokartman]

I have this RAY four piece acetate production proof with a full size (folded) black and white xerox of the ink art stapled to it and signed by the colorist Rob Schwager.

There is no hand work on it, just an artifact of the process.

I have saved some of my wife's print production artifacts, and they are cool, but only as interesting as your imagination.

The other image is Fred "RAY" i was not able to delete it, so take a look (not mine).

Best, David

 

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by aokartman
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