HAUNT #1 - 1st print v.s. 3rd print (collectors gold foil edtion) 0

[StreetPreacher]

As part of my McFarlane quest, I was looking to purchase a copy of Haunt #1, and noticed that there seem to have been 3 printings of this issue.  The 1st print has a yellow/gold outline to the cover title, and a horizontal UPC at the bottom right corner.  The 2nd print can be identified by having a blue outline to to cover title instead of the yellow/gold used on the 1st print.  Then there was ALSO a THIRD print that was advertised as a 'collectors' edition, and it used a reflective gold foil outline on the cover title, and the UPC at the bottom right is vertical instead of horizontal. 

 

Now I normally prefer FIRST prints, but when I checked the stats on 'gocollect' it seemed like the 'THIRD' print has actually been selling for more than the FIRST print?

 

It seems I can currently find raw copies of both 1st & 3rd prints for the same price and in similar conditions, so just wondering if people here actually consider the THIRD print to be a more desirable version (smaller print run?), or if I'm better off with the FIRST printing in the long run?  I know it's a relatively inexpensive book, but even with the cheap stuff I like to at least think I'm getting the best deal possible  

 

And just for the record I'm referring to these 3 'main' McFarlane variants.  I know there might have been a couple other variants, and extremely limited edition 'sketch' versions.  But I'm only looking at these 3 printings...

 

  FIRST PRINT:

 

SECOND PRINT (possibly 3rd print if you consider the ultra limited sketch cover to be the 2nd print...)

 

THIRD PRINT - Or 'Collectors Edition', which I also see this version advertised as...  And it's not obvious in the image, but this edition used shiny reflective GOLD FOIL around the cover title lettering, which I believe is required to be present on all 'collectors edition' comics  

 

So in a nutshell I'm asking, if you had the choice to buy 1 of these 3 in the same condition for the same price, which would you purchase?  As I said, I would normally grab the first edition, but I checked 'gocollect' (no idea if that site is even accurate), which showed recent sales of CGC 9.8s copies of both the First and 'Collectors' editions, and the 'Collectors Edition sold for $40 more than the first print, and it looked like selliing prices were alsi less than for the First print at all lower grades...

Edited September 30, 2020 by StreetPreacher

[valiantman]

This is not an answer about Haunt #1 specificially, but more about the 2nd, 3rd, etc., reprints.

Here's a general rule that's important to keep in mind:

If there were an equal number of 1st prints, 2nd prints, 3rd prints, etc., there would be no contest in the value for any of these comics...  the 1st print would always win.

The value of 2nd and 3rd prints only go higher than 1st prints when the number printed (or number available) is much lower than the 1st print.

Those higher prices for 3rd prints would be fine if the total value of all 1st prints was still higher than the total value of all 3rd prints.

For example:  20,000 copies of a 1st print sell for $5 each and 2,000 copies of a 3rd print sell for $20 each.

That's $100,000 total for 1st prints and $40,000 total for 3rd prints.  Seems legit to me.  1st print > 3rd print, but the individual prices are $5 for 1st and $20 for 3rd.

But...

When the 3rd print (of any comic, not specifically Haunt #1) has 2,000 copies and they sell for $100 each, you get a total value for 3rd prints at $200,000 while the 1st print total is just $100,000.

That's off... by a lot.  Why would all the copies of a book that wasn't printed until 3rd be worth more than all the copies of the 1st printing?  It doesn't make any sense.

Individually, sure... a 3rd print can be worth more if there are a lot fewer printed... but collectively, they shouldn't be worth more than the 1st printing total.  It's a 3rd print. A reprint. Not an original.

 

Since you asked specifically about "in the long run" - I don't believe these 3rd prints that total more dollars (for all copies) than the 1st prints can win in the long run.  They don't make any sense.

But... if the price is still reasonable when you look at the total value of all 3rd prints (like $20 x 2,000 copies) vs. all 1st prints (like $5 x 20,000 copies), then the 3rd print could be more valuable (as a single book) than 1st print forever.

Edited September 30, 2020 by valiantman

[gradejunky]

The blue logo is the 3rd print as identified by the 00113 on the UPC and the "Collector's Edition" appears to be like a Director's Cut as that UPC say 00111.  Spawn later printings can be huge winners but as of now not many care about that Haunt character.  I would get them all to be honest as I'm sure those later printings are much harder to find like most other later printings and they may become pure ghosts in the future.  Valiantman did a good synopsis above me so I won't even compete with that summary.  However, I would say get the later printings now, and then get the 1st print at your leisure as it is common.

[lonetree]

1 hour ago, gradejunky said:

The blue logo is the 3rd print as identified by the 00113 on the UPC and the "Collector's Edition" appears to be like a Director's Cut as that UPC say 00111.  Spawn later printings can be huge winners but as of now not many care about that Haunt character.  I would get them all to be honest as I'm sure those later printings are much harder to find like most other later printings and they may become pure ghosts in the future.  Valiantman did a good synopsis above me so I won't even compete with that summary.  However, I would say get the later printings now, and then get the 1st print at your leisure as it is common.

Thats interesting information regarding the UPC codes.  I did not know there was actually information to be gleaned from them.  Is there a site that helps with the UPC identification?

I concur getting the harder issues now and the 1st print later.  Just had these two come back from CGC this week:

[StreetPreacher]

So the 3/4 print 'gold foil' edition is actually less common and harder to find than the 1st print?  And it looks like the 'official' SECOND print was the McFarlane sketch variant, of which only 24 copies were published, so I'm not sure that can really be considered a 'printing' :).

And those two 9.8s are what got me wondering!  According to gocollect the 1st print 9.8 is $100 while the 3/4 print 'gold foil collector' edition most recently traded for $140...  So is the later 'collector' edition printing really 40% more valuable than the 1st printing?!?!  And WHY couldn't this be the case for my GOLD New Mutans #87, where the 1st print is $300+ while the 2nd print 'gold collector' edition is worth next to nothing?

But it sounds like the suggestion is to pickup the Gold Foil and Blue editions first, and then look for a 'yellow' 1st print as the price has likely already stabilized?

I found #3-5 for $5 (CAD) each at my LCS, but they've never had the earlier issues, so I figured I'd have to grab  them online, at which point I encountered this predicament...

And I'm not a serious enough collector (or investor) to start buying 3 variants of the same book, so if I was to pick 1 of the 3 'common' Issue #1 variants, which should it be?  Will the Blue or Gold variants hold their value, or would the 1st printing be a safer choice?

Although I guess this entire discussion is sort of pointless, as none of the variants are likely to become valuable enough to spend this much time debating which to buy   Kind of like when I spent like 20 minutes trying to decide which copy of a $5 comic to buy from my LCS...

 

Though, really I just don't want to be kicking myself in 10-20 years because one edition became valuable, while the variant I bought became worthless lol!

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by StreetPreacher

[valiantman]

42 minutes ago, lonetree said:

Thats interesting information regarding the UPC codes.  I did not know there was actually information to be gleaned from them.  Is there a site that helps with the UPC identification?

(1) The very first digit denotes a UPC approved number system - has a meaning but isn't important to collectors.

(2) The next five digits are the manufacturer code.  Publishers are assigned this code by the UCC council.

(3) The next set of five digits are the product code and created by a publisher.

(4) The final single digit is called the check digit for barcode reader error checking.

 

(5) The 5 digit supplemental code found at the end.  THIS IS THE IMPORTANT SECTION.

---------The first three digits are the issue number.

---------The fourth digit is the cover version.

---------The fifth digit is the printing.

EXAMPLES: 

03421 is issue #34, 2nd cover, 1st printing.

00112 is issue #1, 1st cover, 2nd printing.

etc.

NEWSSTAND NOTE: Section (5) on the graphic for newsstand books will only have 2 digits, not 5 digits. 

Newsstands have 2 digits on the top right, direct editions have 5 digits on the top right.

Edited September 30, 2020 by valiantman

[StreetPreacher]

40 minutes ago, lonetree said:

Thats interesting information regarding the UPC codes.  I did not know there was actually information to be gleaned from them.  Is there a site that helps with the UPC identification?

Were there direct edition of this that didn't have UPC codes?  Or do even Direct Editions ALL have a UPC these days?  At least in my day you'd get a cool little sketch instead of the ugly UPC if you bought a direct copy...  But now ugly  UPCs are actually preferred since those copies might be less common!  Don't you love when your hobby becomes big bussines?

  On this issue I had just noticed that the first print uses a horizontal bar code, while the 'gold foil' printing went with a vertical UPC orientation...  Is this just to help differentiate the editions?  Like how some of the Marvel reprint/facsimile appear to BLACK out the UPC square to make the books harder to pass off as the real thing?

Edited September 30, 2020 by StreetPreacher

[valiantman]

2 minutes ago, StreetPreacher said:

Were there direct edition of this that didn't have UPC codes?  On this issue I had just noticed that the first print uses a horizontal bar code, while the 'gold foil' printing went with a vertical UPC orientation...  Is this just to help differentiate the editions?  Like how some of the Marvel reprint/facsimile appear to BLACK out the UPC square to make the books harder to pass off as the real thing?

They're all direct editions.  Newsstand wasn't used on Haunt #1.

[StreetPreacher]

1 minute ago, valiantman said:

They're all direct editions.  Newsstand wasn't used on Haunt #1.

Well I actually meant in general?  I currently focus exclusively on back issues, but it seems like new Direct Editions at my LCS now have a UPC on the cover?

Edited September 30, 2020 by StreetPreacher

[lonetree]

9 minutes ago, valiantman said:

 

(1) The very first digit denotes a UPC approved number system - has a meaning but isn't important to collectors.

(2) The next five digits are the manufacturer code.  Publishers are assigned this code by the UCC council.

(3) The next set of five digits are the product code and created by a publisher.

(4) The final single digit is called the check digit for barcode reader error checking.

 

(5) The 5 digit supplemental code found at the end.  THIS IS THE IMPORTANT SECTION.

---------The first three digits are the issue number.

---------The fourth digit is the cover version.

---------The fifth digit is the print run.

EXAMPLES: 

03421 is issue #34, 2nd cover, 1st printing.

00112 is issue #1, 1st cover, 2nd printing.

etc.

NEWSSTAND NOTE: Section (5) on the graphic will only have 2 digits, not 5 digits.  Newsstands have 2 digits on the top right, direct editions have 5 digits on the top right.

 

That is awesome information - THANKS

[valiantman]

1 hour ago, StreetPreacher said:

Well I actually meant in general?  I currently focus exclusively on back issues, but it seems like new Direct Editions at my LCS now have a UPC on the cover?

Reread this topic. Direct editions have had UPC for 25 years. The numbers are explained above.

[StreetPreacher]

That would explain it.  I hadn't bought any comics in 25 years, so 'back in my day', Direct Editions always had logos or sketches in place of the UPC code that was only on Newstand copies...

So, There's no real WINNER between these 3 available 'variants'?  I'd like to complete at least the first 7 issue run that McFarlane did cover work on, but just wondering if people think whether the BLUE or GOLD cover variant will be more valuable long term?  Or if the title is/was popular enough to even be in demand 20 years from now?

I just don't want to buy one, and then learn that the other variant ended up spiking in value for some reason that i'm currently overlooking?

Some ads state that the blue 'third' printing is more rare, but I'm not sure if that's just sales BS being used to help sell the book? 

 

Or I guess I should just do what I did when I was a kid and, BUY THE SHINY ONE!

Edited October 2, 2020 by StreetPreacher

[StreetPreacher]

On 9/30/2020 at 11:02 AM, valiantman said:

If there were an equal number of 1st prints, 2nd prints, 3rd prints, etc., there would be no contest in the value for any of these comics...  the 1st print would always win.

So, where do you find information about how many of each 'variant' or 'printing' of the book was produced?

I guess it makes sense that later printings might become more valuable if the print run was reduced with each subsequent publication, and there are FAR more 1st printings available than 4th printings if you're only considering supply & demand, but I always felt with collectables like comics or sportscards, that the ORIGINAL printing would normally be considered more valuable...

See, THIS is why buying comics is NOT an investment! lol.  And I doubt that "Haunt" will ever become even a 3 figure book in raw form, so I guess it doesn't really matter which version I buy

[valiantman]

2 hours ago, StreetPreacher said:

On 9/30/2020 at 10:02 AM, valiantman said:

If there were an equal number of 1st prints, 2nd prints, 3rd prints, etc., there would be no contest in the value for any of these comics...  the 1st print would always win.

So, where do you find information about how many of each 'variant' or 'printing' of the book was produced?

About 20 years of arguments on this topic on this board - but the short answer is that you can't find that information.  Most of the time.

Some comics do state "one of 1,000 copies" or something similar and some publishers do announce "Limited to 10,000" but most of the time the only numbers we have are the orders for North America reported on Comichron.com as estimates for the first month of sales (which might be just one week if the book arrived late in the month).

There are other continents in the world, so obviously the North American orders don't equal the total number printed.  Furthermore, publishers might get early orders for 25,000 but really believe the book will be popular and print 40,000 so that re-orders will make them more money.

Other times, a book catches them by surprise, so they sell out of 20,000 and then go back and print 5,000 second printings.  If those sell they might print 5,000 third printings.

No one (besides the publisher) really knows, and actual numbers printed are considered a "trade secret" so people who do know aren't allowed to talk about it.

Variants are a different animal, since the RETAILERS have rules for getting them like "order 50 copies of this comic and get 1 copy of the variant", but the PUBLISHERS don't have any rules... they are the ones in charge.  So a comic might sell 10,000 copies and the 1:50 variant would be expected to be 200 copies (since 10,000 divided by 50 is 200), but the publisher probably prints 500 to 1,000 copies of everything since it's cheaper to print in bulk.  They give away the extras, sell them later in discount bulk, anything they want to do because they're not the retailer, they're the publisher.  Supposedly rare Marvel variants have turned up by the hundreds at 75cents each months later when Diamond Distribution had a warehouse sale (with Marvel setting the prices).

Anyone who takes the Comichron.com order number and divides by the "order 50 copies to get 1 variant" number to talk about the print run of variants is being ignorant at best and dishonest at worst. 

There's no way to know what publishers actually do, since the retailers don't even know, so the customers/collectors definitely don't know.  Anyone who says Marvel only prints 200 of some comic is someone to avoid. They don't know how many were printed but they usually have  hundreds or thousands of dollars riding on keeping people believing that a book is rare.  They literally don't know, but they'll swear they do, usually because they say they know-a-guy-who-knows-the-actual-publisher-numbers-and-he-told-them-and-so-you-can-believe-them-or-not-because-they're-sure-they're-telling-the-truth-and-yes-it-does-make-sense-to-pay-$5,000+-for-an-ultra-rare-variant-of-a-book-that-sells-for-$5-in-the-regular-edition.  They get really mad when you doubt them, but please, keep on doubting.

Edited October 2, 2020 by valiantman

[Lazyboy]

On 9/30/2020 at 12:22 PM, valiantman said:

(5) The 5 digit supplemental code found at the end.  THIS IS THE IMPORTANT SECTION.

---------The first three digits are the issue number.

---------The fourth digit is the cover version.

---------The fifth digit is the printing.

EXAMPLES: 

03421 is issue #34, 2nd cover, 1st printing.

00112 is issue #1, 1st cover, 2nd printing.

Important note: This is the standard, but the publishers don't always follow it for whatever reason.

[Lazyboy]

1 hour ago, StreetPreacher said:

I guess it makes sense that later printings might become more valuable if the print run was reduced with each subsequent publication, and there are FAR more 1st printings available than 4th printings if you're only considering supply & demand, but I always felt with collectables like comics or sportscards, that the ORIGINAL printing would normally be considered more valuable...

First printings are almost guaranteed to have more demand, but value and demand are not the same thing.

If 95,000 people want the first printing and there are 100,000 copies, but 25,000 people want the second printing and there are only 20,000 copies, the second printing is likely to be more valuable.

[valiantman]

33 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

On 9/30/2020 at 12:22 PM, valiantman said:

(5) The 5 digit supplemental code found at the end.  THIS IS THE IMPORTANT SECTION.

---------The first three digits are the issue number.

---------The fourth digit is the cover version.

---------The fifth digit is the printing.

EXAMPLES: 

03421 is issue #34, 2nd cover, 1st printing.

00112 is issue #1, 1st cover, 2nd printing.

Important note: This is the standard, but the publishers don't always follow it for whatever reason.

True - the "most popular" example right now would be Ultimate Fallout #4 - which has two clearly marked 2nd printing variants.  They are direct edition UPC coded as 3rd cover, 1st printing and 4th cover, 1st printing.

[StreetPreacher]

38 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

First printings are almost guaranteed to have more demand, but value and demand are not the same thing.

Even after reading all of this information, my lizard brain says get the gold foil embossed one!  

Although, It seems that Haunt is unlikely to transform into a lucrative mainstream IP that causes the comic price to  explode, so is there a good chance that prices for the first issue have already essentially stabilized?

I just started shopping around for Haunt, but it seems like one of those titles that'll probably always be available for ~$25?  I haven't seen a sale price graph, but I'd guess that an 11 year old book without any associated movie or TV series is unlikely to suddenly become a hot commodity?

And did this become the longest most detailed thread that was started to ask for advice about a $20 comic?   But seriously, thanks for all of the insight about how print runs normally work!

[StreetPreacher]

45 minutes ago, valiantman said:

True - the "most popular" example right now would be Ultimate Fallout #4 - which has two clearly marked 2nd printing variants.  They are direct edition UPC coded as 3rd cover, 1st printing and 4th cover, 1st printing.

Hmm, I know that CGC makes a distinction between Newstand/Direct editions of some books now, but not all?

And, is there any chance of UPC v.s. Direct editions ever being considered separate printings? 

I mean, I assume that the publisher would have printed ALL of the Newstand UPC copies at once, and the Direct Editions would also have been printed together as a separate run?  So wouldn't that mean that either the UPC or Direct version would have been printed as a complete batch 'first'?  Meaning that one variation must technically be a 2nd printing?

Edited October 2, 2020 by StreetPreacher

[valiantman]

20 hours ago, StreetPreacher said:

Hmm, I know that CGC makes a distinction between Newstand/Direct editions of some books now, but not all?

And, is there any chance of UPC v.s. Direct editions ever being considered separate printings? 

I mean, I assume that the publisher would have printed ALL of the Newstand UPC copies at once, and the Direct Editions would also have been printed together as a separate run?  So wouldn't that mean that either the UPC or Direct version would have been printed as a complete batch 'first'?  Meaning that one variation must technically be a 2nd printing?

I think you're using "UPC" incorrectly.  Both the newsstand and the direct editions have a UPC.  They are Universal Product Codes (barcodes) and except for the late 1970s, the 1980s, and early 1990s, all books now have barcodes (UPCs), both newsstand and direct edition.

In fact, there are very few newsstands left today (publishers don't even make them now), and books like Haunt only have direct edition UPCs.  There are no newsstand editions of Haunt... but every copy has a UPC (barcode) on it because it's a direct edition UPC.

CGC has been very inconsistent on identifying Newsstand Editions, choosing only to identify Newsstand if the price is different or if the contents are slightly different (with or without a poster insert), and even then, they don't always get it right.

But it is likely that there will be a distinction in the future because direct editions went to comic shops and collectors while newsstand editions (mostly) went to grocery stores and bookstores, getting flipped through by non-collectors and generally causing about 1.0 additional damage (on average) for every newsstand out there.  The exceptions are books like Amazing Spider-Man #252 and Amazing Spider-Man #361 which sold very well as direct editions so the same collectors (and dealers) went out there and scooped up the newsstand editions, too... protecting them as well as they protected direct editions (bags and boards), so not every Newsstand Edition has the same (usually sad) story.  Some newsstands have lived lives of luxury beside the direct editions in well-protected collections.

Newsstand books and direct edition books (if we're talking about first printings) were all printed at the same time.  The barcodes (or other minor changes are made) are swapped out and the press keeps running.  There's no "first" or "second" printings on newsstands and direct editions.  The second, third, etc., only happened when the presses were turned off after the first printings... a few days/weeks/months go by... and they turn the presses back on to make more copies (2nd print, 3rd print, etc.).  Except for very rare situations, there are now 2nd print newsstands.  The newsstand just got whatever it got.  Whatever didn't sell at a newsstand was returned for a refund (and supposed to be destroyed).  Most of the time, almost always, a 2nd print, 3rd print, etc., is only possible in the direct editions.  Comic shops could order more of what they wanted, but newsstands just took whatever showed up.

Edited October 3, 2020 by valiantman