OA stream of consciousness thread
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On 2/25/2021 at 3:37 PM, exitmusicblue said:

Speaking of, latest Frazetta pickup:

https://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1707080

I think I can see it in the man's hair...

Great page...some of Fritz's greatest work can be found in his romance comic book pages...check out the stories "Empty Heart" and THE masterpiece, "Untamed Love"...

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This is just me personally, but I have a difficult time looking at Schomburg art from the Golden Age comics era where he depicts racial caricatures of Asians with the extreme slant eyes and extreme buck teeth...same goes for Connie in Terry and the Pirates by Caniff.  I'm aware that these comics with Schomburg covers still sell well as do Terry and the Pirates originals by Caniff featuring Connie...but for me, it's a real turn-off to look at these, and as such, could never own such items...

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IMHO, the three greatest comic inkers (i.e. those who really didn't pencil for the most part and primarily inked over the pencils of others for the bulk of their career) are Sinnott, Janson, and Austin...

Austin in particular looked great over pretty much everybody (Byrne, Miller, Golden, Paul Smith, Leonardi, Arthur Adams, Toth, Simonson, Perez, etc.).

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This might be a "DUH!" moment but if you aren't looking for one of the "big" artists, look them up and reach out. I did that for a cover I'm looking for and the artist responded very quickly and was very open to working with me. I'll post the cover if all goes well over the next few weeks!

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4 hours ago, HotKey said:

This might be a "DUH!" moment but if you aren't looking for one of the "big" artists, look them up and reach out. I did that for a cover I'm looking for and the artist responded very quickly and was very open to working with me. I'll post the cover if all goes well over the next few weeks!

No artist is too big to entertain a business transaction and make money; some are just lousy at getting back to you. So, if you see a "big" artist you like, and can't find his representative, try them direct.

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When pencils and inks are split, I have taken to buying inks lately even without the pencils. They usually look better, particularly when those pencils are incomplete, and are cheaper.

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I believe three (temporarily four) different forces are going to come together to reshape the entire notion of what collecting is and what means for prices going forward. 

1. The more our culture fractures, the less likely it will be to have a shared love of the same cultural icons and artifacts. The world where everyone enjoyed an "Avengers" movie or a sports team winning its championship will be gone because the universal nature of those things/events will be lost as they shift away from being unifying and into more likely divisive events. A response to this effect I think has been the trend in Hollywood to do nothing but remakes or focus on IP's that existed before say 2010. It's almost as if no one really likes the world of the last 10 years or so and we collectively want to look back to a time before we became so divided. The more a cultural product is tied to the world of the last 10+ years, the less people will be interested in watching or collecting it. The more it is tied to that previous culture/world, the more likely people will want to embrace it.

2. In the last year we have managed to do a complete shift on the cultural requirements specifically for people under 40. Leading into last year the trend was to "experiences over things" and it kept a lot of people out our niche markets. Why have things when you can have "more meaningful" experiences was the guiding principle. Now however fear of coming into contact with other humans has become ingrained (and likely will have profound psychological impact for decades to come) in this group of people, the dynamic has completely shifted. "Things over experiences" is all they are left with, hence the desire to own things (like comic art) has gone full bore and the prices of these items have jumped in a short order to offset that rush of money.

3. The more we as a people isolate and separate ourselves from the collective and real world interactions, the more we will view others not so much as people but as commodities to be exploited. People just profiles on a screen to us, another "product" for us to interact with and if possible exploit. Its why we are seeing such a rash of people jumping into hobbies with no actually connection to them beyond the desire to exploit those "products" by flipping items back and forth with them in a never ending game of tag. This has caused the number of interactions/sales to skyrocket as we have transitioned away from a community of in-person collectors to online product flippers. As the desire to isolate will become more commonplace and accepted, this trend will continue on and become part of the new market we have created.

Those three forces will completely change the way in which we consume "collectibles". We will have created a culture where people feel alienated and disconnected from each other and previously shared experiences/ideas, yet who have limited options/desires for doing other things with their money while feeling a desperate need for distraction/denials of said fracturing world...all in a market being driven by people who have completely dehumanized/monetized the entire collecting process.

The infotainment product makers will see this and will continue to try and market us IP based in the world before that (sorta arbitrary) 2010 cut off in an effort to try and cash in on the last scraps of cultural unity we once felt. Complicating this dynamic further we have flooded our economy with freshly printed money causing all markets to rise.

I believe points 2, 3, and this currency flood has been the cause of asset boom across the board (especially collectibles like art, comics , and cards). While the money printer effect wont last forever the other two underlying forces will. The limiting effect on this however will be point 1. This is going to cause a lot of distorting and twisting of how we evaluate collectable items like comic art going forward as we all learn to navigate that churning sea. It could also be why we are seeing items like NFT's, that are tailor made for this type of environment, flourish.

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3 minutes ago, zhamlau said:

"Things over experiences" is all they are left with, hence the desire to own things (like comic art) has gone full bore and the prices of these items have jumped in a short order to offset that rush of money.

3. The more we as a people isolate and separate ourselves from the collective and real world interactions, the more we will view others not so much as people but as commodities to be exploited. People just profiles on a screen to us, another "product" for us to interact with and if possible exploit. Its why we are seeing such a rash of people jumping into hobbies with no actually connection to them beyond the desire to exploit those "products" by flipping items back and forth with them in a never ending game of tag. This has caused the number of interactions/sales to skyrocket as we have transitioned away from a community of in-person collectors to online product flippers. As the desire to isolate will become more commonplace and accepted, this trend will continue on and become part of the new market we have created.

@zhamlauVery interesting observations (all not just quote above). I love to play Devil's Advocate with sweeping statements but can't easily here; good stuff.

However, we hobbyists are enjoying (?) something very much out of step with "everything" else. I point us all here to US-domestic Velocity of Money charts:

MZM

MZMV
.

M1

M1V

M2

M2V

For those that don't know and don't want to look it up: what is Velocity of Money? A measure of how fast the same $1 is transacting and re-transacting through the economy, basically the opposite of saving (or hoarding) money. So take those charts above and it tells you: even though liquidity in the system as massive...it is not moving around, not even close. It's being hoarded and being hoarded like no other time in sixty or more years. I'm lazy right now but the most recent data I saw on "consumer credit" was that it's being massively paid down...so that's at least part of where all that "savings(hoarding" of money is going - reduction of risk. We're not seeing that but need to be aware/mindful that "our" experience is hardly universal. Those charts tell us people are scared and it doesn't matter how much money/credit you throw at them - they're not taking any new risks on with it and would actually prefer to de-risk as much as possible in the aggregate.

Let's talk about "risk" for a minute. If you think you can make even 1% risk-free, you'll go for it, but nobody wants to break even or lose...if that's the feeling then "no new risk, reduce risk" is the name of the game. THAT is what those charts tell us - in the aggregate Americans are re-risking, even though "we" are not.

 

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6 hours ago, vodou said:

@zhamlauVery interesting observations (all not just quote above). I love to play Devil's Advocate with sweeping statements but can't easily here; good stuff.

However, we hobbyists are enjoying (?) something very much out of step with "everything" else. I point us all here to US-domestic Velocity of Money charts:

MZM

MZMV
 

For those that don't know and don't want to look it up: what is Velocity of Money? A measure of how fast the same $1 is transacting and re-transacting through the economy, basically the opposite of saving (or hoarding) money. So take those charts above and it tells you: even though liquidity in the system as massive...it is not moving around, not even close. It's being hoarded and being hoarded like no other time in sixty or more years. I'm lazy right now but the most recent data I saw on "consumer credit" was that it's being massively paid down...so that's at least part of where all that "savings(hoarding" of money is going - reduction of risk. We're not seeing that but need to be aware/mindful that "our" experience is hardly universal. Those charts tell us people are scared and it doesn't matter how much money/credit you throw at them - they're not taking any new risks on with it and would actually prefer to de-risk as much as possible in the aggregate.

Let's talk about "risk" for a minute. If you think you can make even 1% risk-free, you'll go for it, but nobody wants to break even or lose...if that's the feeling then "no new risk, reduce risk" is the name of the game. THAT is what those charts tell us - in the aggregate Americans are re-risking, even though "we" are not.

 

Or, it could be reflective of the fact that currently, 70% of the wealth in this country is concentrated in the hands of 10% of the population— the highest level of stratification of wealth since the Guilded Age of the last 19th Century. Since the rich don’t spend much in proportion to their income, the velocity of money has consistently dropped over the decades. Then, add in the fact that with Covid, the leisure and services end of the economy went down the toilet, along with a lot of lower income jobs (with people who spend most of what they get and otherwise produces a high velocity of money), giving you those charts. But, for the lucky 20%, between the rich and poor, they have diverted their excess funds to products over services—until later this year when service sectors are expected to grow again—thereby likely resulting in a slump in pricing when experiences can be had without fear of death (except for the young who will insist on going on Spring break).

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5 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

Or, it could be reflective of the fact that currently, 70% of the wealth in this country is concentrated in the hands of 10% of the population— the highest level of stratification of wealth since the Guilded Age of the last 19th Century. Since the rich don’t spend much in proportion to their income, the velocity of money has consistently dropped over the decades. Then, add in the fact that with Covid, the leisure and services end of the economy went down the toilet, along with a lot of lower income jobs (with people who spend most of what they get and otherwise produces a high velocity of money), giving you those charts. But, for the lucky 20%, between the rich and poor, they have diverted their excess funds to products over services—until later this year when service sectors are expected to grow again—thereby likely resulting in a slump in pricing when experiences can be had without fear of death (except for the young who will insist on going on Spring break).

You don't think the greatest de-risking post-War will climb the ladder? OK ;) 

My point - still valid - was that we should not be lulled into believing the vibrant transactional fury we see "in our world" is actually The World. It is not.

Or maybe we should all just...dance!

What was your favourite part of this movie? - Titanic ...

As for that iceberg...

The Uncataloged Museum: What, Me Worry? Crowdsourcing ...

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17 minutes ago, vodou said:

You don't think the greatest de-risking post-War will climb the ladder? OK ;) 

My point - still valid - was that we should not be lulled into believing the vibrant transactional fury we see "in our world" is actually The World. It is not.

Or maybe we should all just...dance!

What was your favourite part of this movie? - Titanic ...

As for that iceberg...

The Uncataloged Museum: What, Me Worry? Crowdsourcing ...

Even Alfred E. Newman lost most of his job. More pointedly, if spending on our little obsession has seen a price spike due to the Pandemic, guess what’s likely to happen when everyone gets vaccinated?

Edited by Rick2you2
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On 1/25/2021 at 8:02 PM, zhamlau said:

You should be able to print a book on that stock for 1.25-1.55 a copy since much of it’s in house from what I’ve read. I can imagine a print run of 25-35k could be doable. You sell at 2.99 a book to mostly older established collectors who might be willing to step back in for the nostalgia and see where you go. 
 

The value comes from the free press this generates beyond the book sales. Marvel giving back to the creators, hell you would get main stream media pick ups on that. Shop owners would be more In support to take a chance on this product than some rando inhumans relaunch. 
 

The marketing alone makes this book a guaranteed hit. Like Marvel doing a hero’s initiative version of their own. Any proceeds extra goes to a fund for older artists and creatives. 
 

This is tip-money to Disney, a guaranteed PR win in the era of dark days for them. It makes it seem like a big happy family looking out for its past and maybe opening up a nice new product line that could catch fire considering their readers skew older.

It would be great if you could get stuff back on to spinners in stores.  Build the audience

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1 hour ago, Heidjer Staecker said:

It would be great if you could get stuff back on to spinners in stores.  Build the audience

Sure. If anybody ever lifted their eyes off cell phones ;) 

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Just in, Cosmic Horror from the Legends set. 

Required some trade + sale acrobatics with comic original art, NFT land and art, plus a sports card.

Happily causing a (Lovecraftian) splash in the MtG FB groups...

https://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1708862

 

06FDD49B-F8E6-49A6-A589-404FE1073EDE.thumb.jpeg.7c56b16074b2d2c8116f8e49a9259272.jpeg

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3 hours ago, exitmusicblue said:

Just in, Cosmic Horror from the Legends set. 

Required some trade + sale acrobatics with comic original art, NFT land and art, plus a sports card.

Happily causing a (Lovecraftian) splash in the MtG FB groups...

https://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1708862

 

06FDD49B-F8E6-49A6-A589-404FE1073EDE.thumb.jpeg.7c56b16074b2d2c8116f8e49a9259272.jpeg

Looks like a Chinese delicacy.

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