Which GA titles had the most readable stories? 1 1

[Ken Aldred]

- Pre-Code New Trend ECs. (Before this classic period, ECs were very run-of-the-mill, after it, the New Direction stories were neutered by the imposition of the Comics Code.)

- Plastic Man 

- The Spirit

Edited October 8, 2020 by Ken Aldred

[Electricmastro]

23 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said:

- Pre-Code New Trend ECs. (Before this classic period, ECs were very run-of-the-mill, after it, the New Direction stories were neutered by the imposition of the Comics Code.)

Ya know, I’ve seen condemnation made against people like Wertham, the Senate, and the people behind the Comics Code as the ones to blame for as to why the writing for any post-1955 mystery/anthology comics got bad, or neutered as you put it. But now that I think about it, I’ve never really seen anyone take the time to explain in-depth as to how exactly the writing got bad, in light of mystery/anthology shows like The Twilight Zone coming about a little later and winning over many people despite not really using aspects like gore, cheesecake visuals, or delving into the dramatically unpleasant territories of topics like divorce or drug abuse, at least in the way comics did.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Electricmastro

[Scrooge]

14 minutes ago, Electricmastro said:

t, I’ve never really seen anyone take the time to explain in-depth as to how exactly the writing got bad

Not that I can back it up but my initial reaction is that in light of the changes, being gun shy about how the Code would react to the story is what most would point out to. Your reply is that a good writer can adjust to this. Yes, they could. That leaves us with two solutions: 1) the writers weren't that good in the first place and using gore hid their faults and 2) even a good writer will not sell you his best ideas when the page rate went down when sales dropped. My thought: # 2 has a lot to do with the decline in story quality. The same did not happen in the markets where sales maintained. There is no decline in the quality of the Dell books. The selection of artists might have taken a hit but the stories not noticeably ... though OtherEric might state otherwise?

[Ken Aldred]

55 minutes ago, Electricmastro said:

But now that I think about it, I’ve never really seen anyone take the time to explain in-depth as to how exactly the writing got bad, 

Perhaps there was simply a period of adjustment to working with those limitations, figuring out what could be done inventively within the new, censored system?

At first you might expect there to be lots of misfires.

Eventually you got the often EC-like stories of Twilight Zone, without the comics' pre-Code excesses, and, after only a half-decade or so, the Marvel super-hero renaissance. The better, more adaptable writers could make that transition.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Ken Aldred

[Robot Man]

5 hours ago, OtherEric said:

I suspect part of the reason Spirit Sections are so cheap is they're so hard to find, particularly the post-war issues.  I've gotten very few over the years, they just never show up.  And the no copies for sale means the prices don't go up much.  The war-time, non Eisner issues, are what I see most often... and, while they do have people like Fine and Cole working on them, they're not nearly as good.  So the ones that do show sales are lower value, and the market looks weird.

(My copy, but the image is heavily cropped because it was meant for the DCM.  The nature of how they were published means copies are often rough around the edges... the top of my copy literally has a line saying cut here:

Other than the tail end of the Spirit Section run (the Wally Wood issues), and the larger tabloid issues,  I have found them all fairly easy to find. Quite a run though. Weekly for over 10 years there are quite a few. They usually seem like to turn up in large groups when they do. I can’t think of anyone who has ever been brave or dedicated to collect them all. And, they aren’t usually cheap.

Other than the sheer amount of them, they are newspaper inserts with no “covers”. This might also contribute to the reason they are so very little collected. 

I probably only have about a dozen of them. I just pick up a few here and there when I run into them (usually cheap). There are a couple on my want list though. I saw a huge group of them at a paper show just before lockdown. Didn’t buy any because of the prices but were great to see. 

Always great reads and beautiful art. They are almost “designed” as opposed to simply just illustrated stories. Many also have Lady Luck back up stories as well. 

The one you posted is classic Eisner! 

[OtherEric]

1 hour ago, Robot Man said:

Other than the tail end of the Spirit Section run (the Wally Wood issues), and the larger tabloid issues,  I have found them all fairly easy to find. Quite a run though. Weekly for over 10 years there are quite a few. They usually seem like to turn up in large groups when they do. I can’t think of anyone who has ever been brave or dedicated to collect them all. And, they aren’t usually cheap.

Other than the sheer amount of them, they are newspaper inserts with no “covers”. This might also contribute to the reason they are so very little collected. 

I probably only have about a dozen of them. I just pick up a few here and there when I run into them (usually cheap). There are a couple on my want list though. I saw a huge group of them at a paper show just before lockdown. Didn’t buy any because of the prices but were great to see. 

Always great reads and beautiful art. They are almost “designed” as opposed to simply just illustrated stories. Many also have Lady Luck back up stories as well. 

The one you posted is classic Eisner! 

I found it a few years ago at Emerald City Comic Con; I think I paid under $30.  I was amazed that I found that particular issue; it's my personal favorite of all the Spirit stories.

[fifties]

5 hours ago, Electricmastro said:

Ya know, I’ve seen condemnation made against people like Wertham, the Senate, and the people behind the Comics Code as the ones to blame for as to why the writing for any post-1955 mystery/anthology comics got bad, or neutered as you put it. But now that I think about it, I’ve never really seen anyone take the time to explain in-depth as to how exactly the writing got bad, in light of mystery/anthology shows like The Twilight Zone coming about a little later and winning over many people despite not really using aspects like gore, cheesecake visuals, or delving into the dramatically unpleasant territories of topics like divorce or drug abuse, at least in the way comics did.

It wasn't that the writing got bad, it was that the target readers for whom they were written changed.  Pre code, adult type fare.  Post code, 10 year old fare.

[Electricmastro]

3 hours ago, fifties said:

It wasn't that the writing got bad, it was that the target readers for whom they were written changed.  Pre code, adult type fare.  Post code, 10 year old fare.

Implying that pre-code crime/horror comics were only read by adults and post-code comics were only read by kids.?

[jimbo_7071]

Some GA collectors don't like strip reprint books, but the serial strips from the newspapers tended to be better written than most of the stories written strictly for comic books. To get a newspaper serial, an artist/writer had to be the crème de la crème.

With some notable exceptions, like ECs, GA stories were mediocre. They were primarily written for children and teenagers, so most of them would not hold an adult's interest for very long. I do occasionally read GA comics just for fun, but most of the time I'm having a chuckle at how wacky some of them were.

I haven't read too many recent comics, but the ones that I've checked out haven't held my interest much, either. The best stories I remember reading in comics were some of the Batman story arcs in the early 70s. I haven't found any GA superhero stories that are on par with those.

5 hours ago, fifties said:

It wasn't that the writing got bad, it was that the target readers for whom they were written changed.  Pre code, adult type fare.  Post code, 10 year old fare.

What do you mean by adult-type fare? Are you talking about material for teens and very young adults? I'm sure some pre-code books targeted comic book readers who had outgrown superheroes, but I have a hard time envisioning many 30- or 40-year-olds reading comic books back in the early 50s. I would think that children and teenagers were still the target audience for most of the material that was being published.

[fifties]

15 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:

 

What do you mean by adult-type fare? Are you talking about material for teens and very young adults? I'm sure some pre-code books targeted comic book readers who had outgrown superheroes, but I have a hard time envisioning many 30- or 40-year-olds reading comic books back in the early 50s. I would think that children and teenagers were still the target audience for most of the material that was being published.

Quote

  21 hours ago, fifties said:

It wasn't that the writing got bad, it was that the target readers for whom they were written changed.  Pre code, adult type fare.  Post code, 10 year old fare.

Implying that pre-code crime/horror comics were only read by adults and post-code comics were only read by kids.?

 

Comic books, like magazines in general, were available to be read by everyone.  Now of course, Dell fare funny animals would have been targeted to the younger set.  I would venture that Classics Illustrated would have been gleaned by teenagers and older, as well as romance titles.  Horror books perhaps by teens and somewhat older.  Crime comics I think would have appealed to the broadest swath of readers.  I've read more than a few times in the letters columns of fare like Crime Does Not Pay, where ppl in their seventies wrote in to compliment the editor, not to mention the many parents that wrote in.  I'm guessing parents of children old enough to read would indeed be in their 30's and 40's.

Personally, as I've aged, the horror titles seem less interesting, the crime titles more so, and I read comics several evenings a week, all pre-code.  AFA audiences for them, I posted awhile back panels out of a Fox crime book from about 1950 where the heavy discussed dope pushing and prostitution; do you really think that was aimed at the little tykes?  Do you think stories about infidelity and murder, ala EC Comics, would have been understood by a nine year old?

Remember, post-war entertainment consisted of live stage, movie theaters, radio, precious little TV, and magazines, to include comic books.  Their presence and "importance" as an entertainment medium was far stronger than today.  It was estimated that in the 1952-54 era, no less than 500 different titles were published each month.  ALL of them for the kiddies?  Not hardly.

[Electricmastro]

14 hours ago, fifties said:

Comic books, like magazines in general, were available to be read by everyone.  Now of course, Dell fare funny animals would have been targeted to the younger set.  I would venture that Classics Illustrated would have been gleaned by teenagers and older, as well as romance titles.  Horror books perhaps by teens and somewhat older.  Crime comics I think would have appealed to the broadest swath of readers.  I've read more than a few times in the letters columns of fare like Crime Does Not Pay, where ppl in their seventies wrote in to compliment the editor, not to mention the many parents that wrote in.  I'm guessing parents of children old enough to read would indeed be in their 30's and 40's.

Personally, as I've aged, the horror titles seem less interesting, the crime titles more so, and I read comics several evenings a week, all pre-code.  AFA audiences for them, I posted awhile back panels out of a Fox crime book from about 1950 where the heavy discussed dope pushing and prostitution; do you really think that was aimed at the little tykes?  Do you think stories about infidelity and murder, ala EC Comics, would have been understood by a nine year old?

Remember, post-war entertainment consisted of live stage, movie theaters, radio, precious little TV, and magazines, to include comic books.  Their presence and "importance" as an entertainment medium was far stronger than today.  It was estimated that in the 1952-54 era, no less than 500 different titles were published each month.  ALL of them for the kiddies?  Not hardly.

Nobody is saying all crime comics were directed to and read by kids, even putting crime comics specifically focusing on gore and prostitution aside. I just found it amusing you said “the target readers for whom they were written changed.  Pre code, adult type fare.  Post code, 10 year old fare.” as if you were implying that post-56 companies like DC and Marvel were specifically excluding 11 year olds, teens and adults,  even though writers from then like Stan Lee welcomed letters being sent to him people like college students and really doesn’t make me feel he wanted to not target them in readership, and I don’t feel the corporation bosses would want to exclude them either if it means making more money from people buying their stuff as much as possible, as the code didn’t change the fact that the publishers still in business still had goals of more money being made after all, as well as how many 1960s comics could be legitimately enjoyed by kids and adults like regardless of the code too.

[50YrsCollctngCmcs]

On 10/8/2020 at 5:33 PM, Robot Man said:

Other than the tail end of the Spirit Section run (the Wally Wood issues), and the larger tabloid issues,  I have found them all fairly easy to find. Quite a run though. Weekly for over 10 years there are quite a few. They usually seem like to turn up in large groups when they do. I can’t think of anyone who has ever been brave or dedicated to collect them all. And, they aren’t usually cheap.

Other than the sheer amount of them, they are newspaper inserts with no “covers”. This might also contribute to the reason they are so very little collected. 

I probably only have about a dozen of them. I just pick up a few here and there when I run into them (usually cheap). There are a couple on my want list though. I saw a huge group of them at a paper show just before lockdown. Didn’t buy any because of the prices but were great to see. 

Always great reads and beautiful art. They are almost “designed” as opposed to simply just illustrated stories. Many also have Lady Luck back up stories as well. 

The one you posted is classic Eisner! 

Yeah, in my fifty years of going to comic shows you just don't see these that often. Even at the NY shows in the early seventies when people were still really into comic strip characters they just weren't around. I saved the New York Daily News Sunday comic section that my Grandmom got from about 1973-1974. It was about a 16 page comic like supplement but bigger like 11 x 17 inches. Tracy was on the front and I think Dondi was on the back on the full page; so it wasn't the Golden Age of strips but way bigger than anything you see today. I would put them into one of those accordion type file folders. I got tired of saving them or maybe they stopped printing them that big and finally when I move out of my parent's house they just didn't seem like they were worth saving so I tossed them!!

Now Mr. Eisner besides being a very gifted designer as evidenced on all his splash panels; was a gem of a guy to talk to and very accessible. I used to chat him up at the early nineties San Diego shows and he was such a great guy. I had him autograph my Warren Spirit #1 to my two kids (twins) who were with us in a double stroller at the time. He got a big kick out of that!