Possibility of damage to graded books w/ signatures when regrading 1 1

[themacjesus]

Hello,

First post here, so apologies if it has come up somewhere before - I really did try searching for it beforehand.

I've read that damage can occur to books themselves and/or signatures on books when regrading. My question is how often does something like a previously signed/graded book being submitted for another artist's signature result in a lowered grade or the previous artist's signature "coming off" the book occur? I hope this makes sense, if not I can provide some real world examples that may help. Any information, concrete or anecdotal, would be greatly appreciated. Thank you and stay safe everyone!

[revat]

Both happen

but it might depend on a lot the artist, the type of paper, the original grade of the book, the facilitator working, luck, and other factors.

it also would be hard for anyone person to have a sample size large enough to give you any statistics as more than anecdotal, although there may be some who do have the sample size.  But they are generally in the business of selling, and they have an interest directly getting people to buy signed books or use them as facilitators.

 

id say if you have concerns, ask about a specific creator, book/paper, or facilitator.  Many people pay for a press after grading to attempt to mitigate the effects of potential damage from signing

[theCapraAegagrus]

I'm not sure that a statistic exists to reflect how often it occurs.

[William-James88]

14 hours ago, themacjesus said:

Hello,

First post here, so apologies if it has come up somewhere before - I really did try searching for it beforehand.

I've read that damage can occur to books themselves and/or signatures on books when regrading. My question is how often does something like a previously signed/graded book being submitted for another artist's signature result in a lowered grade or the previous artist's signature "coming off" the book occur? I hope this makes sense, if not I can provide some real world examples that may help. Any information, concrete or anecdotal, would be greatly appreciated. Thank you and stay safe everyone!

Regarding the grade being lowered, someone said that in their personal experience it was 25% rate of lower grade.

But the truth is, be it 50% or 3%, that means the same thing: it ain't perfect and that person with the lower grade could be you. 

So the real question is, are you ok with getting a lower grade? 

[Jeffro.]

I seem to recall somebody posting a book with a McFarlane sig and because he used some odd type of pen/marker the ink didn't fully dry and some of the signature came off and/or got smudged. Anybody else remember that?

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

29 minutes ago, Jeffro. said:

I seem to recall somebody posting a book with a McFarlane sig and because he used some odd type of pen/marker the ink didn't fully dry and some of the signature came off and/or got smudged. Anybody else remember that?

Why white paint or ink pens should not be used

[newshane]

This largely depends on a few different factors:

1. The skill and diligence of the custody chain during the process of cracking the slab, prepping the comic, getting it signed, and submitting it to the CGC. This could be the responsibility of a single person (facilitator) or a small crew of people, depending on the company you choose. 

2. The care and concern of the person signing the comic. 

3. There is a very fine line between 9.6 and a 9.8. You're always going to susceptible to the consistency of the grading teams at CGC. One team's 9.8 many turn out to be another team's 9.6. 

I gathered first hand experience back when I built my legendary, award-winning Spawn run of graded comics. 

I submitted around 40 slabs (9.8 graded) to various signature series facilitators. All of these books were cracked, signed (sometimes multiple times), and resubmitted. I can only recall one (MAYBE two) books that were downgraded to 9.6. 

So, in my experience, we roughly see a 2.5% to 5% chance that a book would come back as a lower grade. 

I chalk this up to the care of my chosen facilitators. I also had signatures from nearly two dozen different artists. I feel like I have my facilitators to thank...

I don't want to leave anyone out, but my main facilitator during that time was @Rich_Henn

There were a few more. If anyone needs a recommendation, I can try to pull up my records if you'd like to PM me. 

I hope this answers your question. One last point - you must accept the notion that your book could come back as a lower grade. It's ALWAYS a big risk. Can you accept it? If not, I suggest doing what I had to do on a few occasions...

buy TWO 9.8 graded copies of the same issue. Send the best looking of the two off to be graded. Hopefully, it comes back a 9.8. If not, you always have your backup copy! Expensive? Yes! But I did it for peace of mind. If your book DOES come back as a 9.8, then you can sell off your blue label to recoup the cost. 

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by newshane

[revat]

1 hour ago, newshane said:

This largely depends on a few different factors:

1. The skill and diligence of the custody chain during the process of cracking the slab, prepping the comic, getting it signed, and submitting it to the CGC. This could be the responsibility of a single person (facilitator) or a small crew of people, depending on the company you choose. 

2. The care and concern of the person signing the comic. 

3. There is a very fine line between 9.6 and a 9.8. You're always going to susceptible to the consistency of the grading teams at CGC. One team's 9.8 many turn out to be another team's 9.6. 

I gathered first hand experience back when I built my legendary, award-winning Spawn run of graded comics. 

I submitted around 40 slabs (9.8 graded) to various signature series facilitators. All of these books were cracked, signed (sometimes multiple times), and resubmitted. I can only recall one (MAYBE two) books that were downgraded to 9.6. 

So, in my experience, we roughly see a 2.5% to 5% chance that a book would come back as a lower grade. 

I chalk this up to the care of my chosen facilitators. I also had signatures from nearly two dozen different artists. I feel like I have my facilitators to thank...

I don't want to leave anyone out, but my main facilitator during that time was @Rich_Henn

There were a few more. If anyone needs a recommendation, I can try to pull up my records if you'd like to PM me. 

I hope this answers your question. One last point - you must accept the notion that your book could come back as a lower grade. It's ALWAYS a big risk. Can you accept it? If not, I suggest doing what I had to do on a few occasions...

buy TWO 9.8 graded copies of the same issue. Send the best looking of the two off to be graded. Hopefully, it comes back a 9.8. If not, you always have your backup copy! Expensive? Yes! But I did it for peace of mind. If your book DOES come back as a 9.8, then you can sell off your blue label to recoup the cost. 

 

 

 

this is a good anecdotal sample, and reflects especially well on your facilitators.  But at the same time (and I don't mean this as a shot to you or the facilitator), since they were all from the same title in roughly the same time period, the paper quality might have been a relatively consistent factor as well.  A comic of a different title from a different company in a different era may be more/less susceptible to preservation of grade or potential damage (or potential benefits of pressing).  

So while I understand the general nature of the question, there's so many factors that it is difficult to broadly apply the stats.  TO me, I think it would make more sense to ask about a specific circumstance the OP is interested, and solicit opinions/experiences on those situations.  Of course if its multiple 'instances' I get that might be difficult too to ask for 25 different situations.  

[Chaz G.]

1 hour ago, newshane said:

buy TWO 9.8 graded copies of the same issue. Send the best looking of the two off to be graded. Hopefully, it comes back a 9.8. If not, you always have your backup copy! Expensive? Yes! But I did it for peace of mind. If your book DOES come back as a 9.8, then you can sell off your blue label to recoup the cost. 

I do this all the time.  And I also use Rich Henn whenever possible.

[newshane]

5 hours ago, revat said:

But at the same time (and I don't mean this as a shot to you or the facilitator), since they were all from the same title in roughly the same time period, the paper quality might have been a relatively consistent factor as well. 

The run spanned 25 years, and there were a few notable changes in the paper and cover stock during that time period. 

I don't take anything as a personal shot. I'm just providing information. I won't pretend that my sample size provides definitive data, but I do feel like I have a larger sample size than most. 

The simple answer is that there are no definitive data. There are too many wildcard factors...too many subjective factors...involved to make a scientific declaration. 

I think it's safe to say, however, based on my personal experience, that the risk is relatively small if everyone in the chain of custody takes reasonable action to preserve the condition of the book. 

One more last tip, eyeball the book hard through the slab. Look for shaken comic syndrome. Look for "soft" 9.8s. Catch it before they do.