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PP F&F payment questions.
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Started by BabaLament,

23 posts in this topic

BabaLament

BabaLament

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hello all! I hope everyone is happy, healthy, and maintaining a reasonable level of sanity.

If this has been discussed elsewhere, I apologize in advance for flogging the dead horse. 
 

I’ve been commissioning ASM 300 cover swipe custom sketches, as well as some other art, throughout the year. Recently, most artists have been asking for payment via PayPal using the F&F option. From what I see, this places the payment of fees onto the purchaser (aka: me) rather than the seller/business, as well as absolving the seller from PP Purchase Protection.
 

Is this a common thing, and is it working out ok for those of you who are buying? Have I been lucky so far in that I haven’t gotten burned?
 

Most artists I have not met or commissioned previously have been reasonable when I’ve explained that, particularly for our first transaction, I would prefer to use the traditional PP payment method. I explain that I’m not questioning their integrity, but that I would prefer the added warm-fuzzy of purchase protection the first time around. I also offer to offset the fee by paying an additional “x” to cover it; which has eliminated almost all complaint about PP fees. So far I’ve only had one person has completely refused anything other than F&F.

I am not entirely comfortable with the F&F option, and would prefer not to use it. What are your thoughts on this, and if comfortable, please provide any advice/stories based on experiences, good or ill. 

Much obliged. Thank you for your time & attention. 

Edited by BabaLament
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BabaLament

BabaLament

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Posted (edited)

@HaDokKen To date, I have been fortunate enough to have all but one individual accept my reasons for *not* paying via PP F&F, and conducting business using the normal method. It’s sellers who continue to request F&F, not me. However, I appreciate the response & fully understand that board-based transactions are to be performed via the traditional PP method. 

Edited by BabaLament
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Sensei Ryan

Sensei Ryan

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Posted

For my 2c I say a huge NO to using F&F for 99.9% of every single transaction I would make.  For those that do use it they've just been lucky to have it not burn them so far (yourself included).  Pay the extra 3% and demand to use a safer method as I can't tell you how many times I've read 'I got burned paying with F&F' on comic purchases, commission sketches, etc.  If you ever do it, you should know beyond a shadow of a doubt the person that you're dealing with and trust them implicitly.  If you can't do that, then never use F&F via Paypal.  To be blunt, don't be cheap (or put yourself out there as an easy victim) and always have peace of mind with what you're paying for. For 3-4% plus 30 cents to me that's priceless, even on high value items.

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thunsicker

thunsicker

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Sensei Ryan said:

If you ever do it, you should know beyond a shadow of a doubt the person that you're dealing with and trust them implicitly.

This.  Only use it for someone you trust implicitly.  Like maybe a friend or a family member.

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Lightning55

Lightning55

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Posted
3 hours ago, B2D327 said:

The payment methods are there for your protection. I personally have added the 3% when buying just for peace of mind. It only takes one bad transaction to fill you with regret.

Agree with the above.  If someone insists of F&F, insist on running away.

After several successful transactions (purchases) with another collector/seller I have come to trust, not on the boards but elsewhere, I have carefully moved to F&F.  I knew each time it was a risk, but a measured risk.  I had to feel that the current transaction, if totally lost, was more than made up for by the previous transactions to the positive.  If I lost it, I was not in the hole overall.

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wombat

wombat

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Posted

This has nothing to do with trusting someone. It is stealing and unethical. Anyone selling something requesting this would make red flags go off immediately. Simply raise your price by 3% to cover the fee. 

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Lightning55

Lightning55

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Posted
3 minutes ago, littledoom said:

FF is for sending money to someone you trust hence friends and family

If I buy stuff over and over from someone, have some good email conversations about the state of the world and family members, they become my friend.  So I figure it qualifies.  I'm sending my friend some money.  He also happens to be sending me some books.

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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

Posted
Posted

PayPal friends and family is meant for friends, and family for things like your fantasy football league or if a friend of mine bought something for me at a local show and I have to transfer money to them.  It is explicitly stated in the terms of service of PayPal that friends and family is not to be used for business transactions. In fact:

  • You cannot ask for friends and family on a business transaction
  • You cannot give a discount for using another form of payment when PayPal is provided as an option. 
  • You cannot charge a surcharge if customers are using PayPal (ex "add 3% if using PayPal

Lately, I have heard of instances where PayPal has been going after people for doing this and either shutting down their account or taking away their ability to use friends and family.  There was a guy on a GI Joe Facebook page that got shut down for adding 3% to the order after the fact if people wanted to use PayPal goods and services.  A few people took screen shots and complained, notified PayPal and they also got the guy to leave the group or he left in his own shame. 

 

Let's also consider that there are quite a few artists that take their sweet time and don't always deliver the goods.   Any time you commission a piece from an artist there should be some type of agreement as to the expectancy of the time frame for when the work will be done.  If the artist cannot deliver within the time frame you can call PayPal to cancel the transaction as a last resort and retrieve your money.  You cannot do that with friends and family. 

 

I ALWAYS walk away when someone insists on me to pay using friends and family.  In one case it cost me a getting some things at a decent price.  At another instance, the guy wound up scamming everyone.  I would rather deal with someone who is a little more professional and knows how to build PayPal fees into the cost of the item rather than some facebook clown.   

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theCapraAegagrus

theCapraAegagrus

Posted
Posted
23 hours ago, BabaLament said:

Hello all! I hope everyone is happy, healthy, and maintaining a reasonable level of sanity.

If this has been discussed elsewhere, I apologize in advance for flogging the dead horse. 
 

I’ve been commissioning ASM 300 cover swipe custom sketches, as well as some other art, throughout the year. Recently, most artists have been asking for payment via PayPal using the F&F option. From what I see, this places the payment of fees onto the purchaser (aka: me) rather than the seller/business, as well as absolving the seller from PP Purchase Protection.
 

Is this a common thing, and is it working out ok for those of you who are buying? Have I been lucky so far in that I haven’t gotten burned?
 

Most artists I have not met or commissioned previously have been reasonable when I’ve explained that, particularly for our first transaction, I would prefer to use the traditional PP payment method. I explain that I’m not questioning their integrity, but that I would prefer the added warm-fuzzy of purchase protection the first time around. I also offer to offset the fee by paying an additional “x” to cover it; which has eliminated almost all complaint about PP fees. So far I’ve only had one person has completely refused anything other than F&F.

I am not entirely comfortable with the F&F option, and would prefer not to use it. What are your thoughts on this, and if comfortable, please provide any advice/stories based on experiences, good or ill. 

Much obliged. Thank you for your time & attention. 

I hope you're staying positive and testing negative! :shy:

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BabaLament

BabaLament

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38 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

Let's also consider that there are quite a few artists that take their sweet time and don't always deliver the goods.   Any time you commission a piece from an artist there should be some type of agreement as to the expectancy of the time frame for when the work will be done.  If the artist cannot deliver within the time frame you can call PayPal to cancel the transaction as a last resort and retrieve your money.

I have had this happen on three occasions; all of which have been resolved in my favor once I filed a claim with PP. This is a big part of the reason I've been concerned/apprehensive over artists recently insisting on payment using F&F, and started this thread.

One guy accepted three sketch cover commissions & said it would take him three months max. He did the first one in short order, then sat on the other two for almost a year. He did communicate regularly, and I did feel a bit of sympathy as death seemed to be cutting down his extended family quite rapidly. I know I wouldn't be productive if I had been bouncing from funeral to funeral like that. (Note: sarcasm is not a lost art.) In the end I asked for a refund for work not performed & that the books be sent back. He obliged, and it was nice that I got he money + books back. Having spoken to others who have worked with the man, it seems his inability to keep to a schedule and/or meet deadlines has been the major impediment to his success.

Another guy accepted payment, did half the work (I asked for an in-progress photo), then the excuses came. Vacation, visiting family, delay due to having to shift from commissioned work to other work that had deadlines approaching, holidays (non-US), etc. He was also a pain in the butt to contact, responding to e-mails all of once a week (if that); but I have to assume part of that was geography/time-zones related (See, I can be reasonable.) When the piece was done, he "shipped" it & the tracking number was bogus, followed by "hey, sorry, I shipped it to the wrong customer; I'll have to start over." I filed a PP claim. Apparently PP locked up his account, because I started getting e-mails *hourly* of the "Hey man, sorry for all the issues, I'll get to it as soon as possible, but will you please unlock my PP account" variety. I told him I'd be happy to resolve the issue; he could send the piece, or provide a refund. I had a legitimate shipping notification & tracking number before the end of the day. When the piece arrived, I resolved the issue & he got his PP account unlocked; though I'll never work with that guy again.

Third contestant took money + books for sketch commission work, sent in-progress + completion photos, then...never shipped them back. I contacted her & she said she wasn't expecting how expensive shipping was going to be, would I please send "X" to cover shipping? Absolutely! Not a problem. Sent the money, and...nothing. Tried contacting her via e-mail, social media, and even a phone call (international); no response at all. PP Claim. Two days later I get a call from her number & a bloke who claimed to be dad. Apparently she took ill & went to the hospital, and would I kindly unlock her PP account so she could transfer money to pay for the medical expenses. I told him "sure; as soon as you send me a tracking number for my books." Again, I had a tracking number by the end of the day; and another artist I won't be working with in the future.

However, to @Buzzetta point, if it had been F&F, I would have been screwed.

 

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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

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Posted
22 minutes ago, BabaLament said:

I have had this happen on three occasions; all of which have been resolved in my favor once I filed a claim with PP. This is a big part of the reason I've been concerned/apprehensive over artists recently insisting on payment using F&F, and started this thread.

One guy accepted three sketch cover commissions & said it would take him three months max. He did the first one in short order, then sat on the other two for almost a year. He did communicate regularly, and I did feel a bit of sympathy as death seemed to be cutting down his extended family quite rapidly. I know I wouldn't be productive if I had been bouncing from funeral to funeral like that. (Note: sarcasm is not a lost art.) In the end I asked for a refund for work not performed & that the books be sent back. He obliged, and it was nice that I got he money + books back. Having spoken to others who have worked with the man, it seems his inability to keep to a schedule and/or meet deadlines has been the major impediment to his success.

Another guy accepted payment, did half the work (I asked for an in-progress photo), then the excuses came. Vacation, visiting family, delay due to having to shift from commissioned work to other work that had deadlines approaching, holidays (non-US), etc. He was also a pain in the butt to contact, responding to e-mails all of once a week (if that); but I have to assume part of that was geography/time-zones related (See, I can be reasonable.) When the piece was done, he "shipped" it & the tracking number was bogus, followed by "hey, sorry, I shipped it to the wrong customer; I'll have to start over." I filed a PP claim. Apparently PP locked up his account, because I started getting e-mails *hourly* of the "Hey man, sorry for all the issues, I'll get to it as soon as possible, but will you please unlock my PP account" variety. I told him I'd be happy to resolve the issue; he could send the piece, or provide a refund. I had a legitimate shipping notification & tracking number before the end of the day. When the piece arrived, I resolved the issue & he got his PP account unlocked; though I'll never work with that guy again.

Third contestant took money + books for sketch commission work, sent in-progress + completion photos, then...never shipped them back. I contacted her & she said she wasn't expecting how expensive shipping was going to be, would I please send "X" to cover shipping? Absolutely! Not a problem. Sent the money, and...nothing. Tried contacting her via e-mail, social media, and even a phone call (international); no response at all. PP Claim. Two days later I get a call from her number & a bloke who claimed to be dad. Apparently she took ill & went to the hospital, and would I kindly unlock her PP account so she could transfer money to pay for the medical expenses. I told him "sure; as soon as you send me a tracking number for my books." Again, I had a tracking number by the end of the day; and another artist I won't be working with in the future.

However, to @Buzzetta point, if it had been F&F, I would have been screwed.

 

Anthony C? 

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wombat

wombat

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Posted
8 hours ago, Lightning55 said:

If I buy stuff over and over from someone, have some good email conversations about the state of the world and family members, they become my friend.  So I figure it qualifies.  I'm sending my friend some money.  He also happens to be sending me some books.

It doesn't qualify. You are trying to rationalize something that you shouldn't be doing. 

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