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LOCKED - disruptive thread - [CLOSED] Ebay/Auctiva is busted and I gotta sell some comics!
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131 posts in this topic

On 10/18/2020 at 9:41 PM, agamoto said:

ON HOLD

ACtC-3dl96g2i8U30bUDUgoyPmcGbszPUJO4vKNXlXKgQwCd_dIG_igV9VM06ax1e3VY_YbowjtRbYtJzGP7rMk6tnCEg6TBc-HRRxQ77Cy2e994fRcbq7dEiqtK9Uld-XxzDHDuYzCuw2HMlGwjb25Ucu7v=w1478-h1970-no?authuser=0

 

Amazing Spider-Man, #14, 7/64, 6.5 (FN+), CGC Universal, Cr2OW, 3706889002, PhotoLink, light creasing to cover, light foxing to cover, light pieces out to cover, light spine stress lines to cover, light wear to cover, moderate staple tears, staple detached top of front cover, GPA90: $2724 GoCollect: $2700, Asking: $2625

:takeit: and batman 20 per pm. 

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On 10/21/2020 at 4:42 AM, agamoto said:

I don't disagree with you on that honor arrangement, however it's not quite how this incident rolled out.  

Miraclemet approached me via private message @ 11:14AM, expressing general interest with the sale as whole with no mention of any book in particular, inquiring only if any of my books had been pressed. 

I responded 46 minutes later at 12:00PM saying it depends on the books and which ones he wanted. 

He responded 42 minutes later at 12:42PM with an attempt to open negotiation on a bundle deal with the message, "Was thinking about a bundle of Avengers #8 and IH141".

I responded one hour and one minute later at 1:43PM informing him that the Avengers 8 was indeed pressed, and the Hulk was not, and in that message told him that I had decided to pull it from sale and CPR it.

He responded to that message 15 minutes later at 1:58PM indicating "he'd buy the 141 if I was willing to sell" despite me expressing my intent to pull the book in the previous private message with him.

After leaving the 1:58PM message, timestamps indicate he then quoted the ad in the thread at 1:59PM with a "take". 

At 2:15 PM I responded to his 1:58PM private message reiterating I was pulling the ad, and I then I went to make the necessary edits. I did not see his 1:59PM "take" until I later reading his public follow-up message within the thread "never mind, I guess it's getting pulled" at 2:16PM

He then replied again to me via PM at 2:18PM saying he "should have just bought it instead of asking. lesson learned". 

I replied via PM at 2:27PM indicating that if he had jumped at buying it prior to my 1:43PM response to him, I certainly would have honored it. I expressed sympathy for him not getting what he wanted, and in return offered him not only first crack at the book at whatever it comes back at, but also an additional 10% off. If it comes back 9.2, he can have it for $270 or less. He gets first shot at it regardless, at that price, even if FMV at 9.2 goes up. Might I add, the current GPA90 value on that book is above $300.

At 2:30PM, I publicly reiterated my offer in the thread of a 10% discount.  

At 3:29PM he replied via PM telling me that going forward I should indicate in the ad itself whether a book has been pressed or not so that people can just pull the trigger on a buy w/o having to check in with me first. I haven't responded to that, and while he's not wrong, I want to say a few things about that, and I'll do so publicly.

Had I made the pressing status of those books known in advance, It would not have changed the outcome. The message received at 12:42 PM indicated a desire to open a dialog about a bundle deal for the two books and not an express commit to buy. The answer about the Hulk would have been the same from my end. It's not unimportant to note that Miraclemet slapped down his "take" 16 minutes after I had already told him I was going to pull the book from sale and 1 minute after he confirmed receipt of that intent at 1:58. 

 

Was this Central, Eastern, or Pacific?? Asking for a friend.

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On 10/21/2020 at 7:46 PM, Jordysnordy said:

 

I am curious as others have pointed out - what would you have done in someone else had claimed the book?

He already stated that he would NOT honor it. Apparently his unwritten rules require mind reading. :banana:

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On 10/21/2020 at 11:25 AM, agamoto said:

 

No, I would NOT have honored any other "take" after I made the decision to pull it, just as I would not honor a "take" on any book which I had already committed to selling to someone else privately yet hadn't had time to alter the ad to indicate it's closure.
 

 

THIS is the problem. Everyone is not required to be mind readers. If the book is listed and someone posts a Take It then it is theirs. 
The specific situation with Miraclemet is more of a gray area for me given the ambiguous “I think I’m going to pull it” followed by the Take It. But your answer to the hypothetical of a third party taking the book is unacceptable. 

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3 hours ago, joeypost said:

The right thing to do, is sell the book as the 9.2 for the original asking price. 
 

The rules are the rules. That’s why we have them, which results in very few selling/buying issues on the boards. If the rules are broken, the boards have a way of reminding others about a seller/buyers inability to complete a transaction. 

I have a list of right things to do too, for buyers!  

The right thing to do, is to not stake a claim on a book when the seller has told you the book is about to be removed from sale, yet you go ahead and stake a claim on it anyway. 

The right thing to do after staking that claim and being denied it, is to consider once more why it was denied, and maybe not go off grumbling about it when you've been around long enough to know that  you'll be setting off firecrackers in the pants of every single comic-book forum karen here, all demanding to see that seller's manager.

The right thing to do if you do decide to publicly grumble about that big seller who wouldn't accept your take is to not forget to also grumble the little details. Like how you staked your claim on a book only after you were told it wasn't for sale and was going to be pulled but before the seller had an opportunity to alter his ad. 

The right thing to do is admit that sellers deserve a few rights too, in this case, the right to pull a book from sale for ANY reason they deem fit provided no one has staked a claim on that book even if that seller is fielding questions about the book that are entirely non-committal in nature. 

The right thing to do is to give sellers who have responsibilities outside of this site a little time to make changes to their ads and not simply tell them, "dems the rules", thereby literally extorting a sale from them just to avoid reputation loss.

Just some suggestions to add to the suggestion box for future sellers. Maybe they can benefit, since I sure as shiite I won't be selling anything to anyone on this site again, regardless where I wind up on the reputation scale. 

 

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15 minutes ago, WeR138 said:

"Maybe they can benefit, since I sure as shiite I won't be selling anything to anyone on this site again"

 

Isn't there some way we can get you to reconsider?

Your shine box, go shove it. 

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I am absolutely through with this community, but I didn't want to leave specifically without a few comments just for Miraclemet. You don't have to answer back. In fact, I've disabled all notifications, so I won't see them anyway unless I return to the site, which I now have zero desire to ever do! 
 
You said: "my lesson is to not ask if a book is pressed or not, just take it. cause if you ask if it's pressed, that gives the non-seller a chance to second guess his listing and decide to pull it. I went ahead and took it because even after the non-seller talked about CPRing it (at which point I also said I'd take it in PMs), it was still listed, so I went ahead and took it again in the thread. I've had the "Im thinking about sending it back for a press and resub" line used as a tactic to close a deal and to fend off a possible offer under the asking price. So I went ahead and took it. It appears the non-seller is intent on not selling the book so that's all she wrote."

Your retelling here of the details in the discussion thread is a large part of the reason why I was brigaded. You may note how several have jumped on this precise detailing of the incident in your grumble as a cornerstone of their argument for dumping on MY head. You don't mention here that you had sent two non-committal, exploratory questions and I didn't simply say "I'm thinking about sending it back for a press and resub". My message to you was nuanced, but unmistakably declarative to anyone with half a brain, and you've got at least 51% up there. 

You had asked if all my books were pressed, I said yes and asked you which ones you were interested in. I pulled those two books out and realized that the IH141 was actually not pressed (or pressed poorly). In my response I said "After having another look under the loupe, I think I'm going to pull it and CPR it anyway. No reason at all it can't be a 9.6 and a 9.8 if the grader lets the slight miswrap slide." I'm not sure how you interpreted that as anything other than my desire to NOT sell the comic.

Later, in the epilogue to this insanity, you compare and contrast how we both used forms of the word think. I found this to be incredibly disingenuous as I suspect you have  more than a just a passing grasp of grammar and syntax, so let's just admit here and now that the two statements share little in common other than the word. To paraphrase your first two comments, you had in your mind (thinking) of an interest in two of my books, with some qualifiers. To me your statement is exploratory only and tells me your interest is piqued, however you remain non-committal pending some  expressed and unexpressed conditions of sale, the first of which is apparent. You want to know the press status. Second, left unstated, but implied, is the desire to "bundle" which implies you'd -possibly- consider taking both, at the right price. 

My expression of the word "think" is part of a far more concrete declaration and as mentioned in another comment, which likely 90% of people didn't bother to read, was used as an I-statement: Personalization to avoid conflict and not as part of the standard subject/predicate form, part of a declarative, parenthetical statement. To paraphrase myself, I have it in my mind (I think), after looking closely at the book, I'm going to pull the comic from sale."

If this requires further explanation, consider the removal of the phrase "I think", or "I'm thinking" altogether. In your case, your initial two comments could have been compressed into one, 

"I'm interested, maybe, in a bundle of Avengers 8 and IH141, are any of your books pressed?"

You'd have a very hard time arguing in court regarding that statement being anything other than exploratory and non-committal in its intent. Now consider my statement w/o "think": "After having another look under the loupe, I'm going to pull it and CPR it anyway."

I hope now that you see the difference between the two statements, and how one is open-ended while one is clearly declarative in its meaning.


Re: "my lesson is to not ask if a book is pressed or not, just take it. cause if you ask if it's pressed, that gives the non-seller a chance to second guess his listing and decide to pull it. I went ahead and took it because even after the non-seller talked about CPRing it (at which point I also said I'd take it in PMs), it was still listed, so I went ahead and took it again in the thread. I've had the "Im thinking about sending it back for a press and resub" line used as a tactic to close a deal and to fend off a possible offer under the asking price. So I went ahead and took it. It appears the non-seller is intent on not selling the book so that's all she wrote."

This is not an honest retelling of the timeline of what happened, and it's yet another cornerstone for the Karens in their assault. You were told the book was going to be pulled. You responded to that 15 minutes later indicating you'd buy it and then doubled down with a qualified take in the thread. You did this because you felt I was deceiving you about pulling the ad, as you explain here, as other have done to you. An act taken against you as a means to fend off a possible offer under the asking price. First off, that sounds ridiculous. I'm going to pull a book from sale out from under you just because I think you might, maybe, possibly offer me less than what I'm asking for? What?!? There was no offer made, bundle or otherwise. I've sold lots of comics already in reduced price bundles. WTF? If your intent was to guard me from denying you a sale because I didn't think I'd like your offer, when you DIDN'T EVEN HAVE AN OFFER on the table, then that's borderline extortion. The fact that the community even allows someone to essentially preempt or filibuster a seller's right to do what he wants with his property in the absence of any legitimate offer is infuriatingly insane!!! 

Re: "Yep, there were at least a dozen posts by the seller in the thread after the IH141 "slipped thru" plus lots of PMs it seems. And the whole time he didnt bother to go back and pull it..."

Once again, an absolutely false claim stoking the fire and fury of every thread champion on the general discussion warpath. The IH141 "slipped thru" because I was tired when I posted it and did not look closely at it under the loupe and assumed it was pressed just like everything else I had posted. THAT DOES NOT MATTER. The realization that it may not have been pressed was made at the time you asked about it, and that's when I said I would remove it from sale. I even mentioned in the previous private message that all the books were pressed. REGARDLESS, it's all moot because you had NOT committed to the book, and only did so AFTER I told you I was pulling it off the sale. 


Re: Pressure tactics and their usage. It's a VF first appearance of Kang and a NM first appearance of Doc Samson. Two books that will never, EVER require ANY pressure tactics to sell. ESPECIALLY when you're selling them below GPA FMV as I was. C'mon man, seriously? Who's pressuring whom here?

Re: "If it had been me, when I decided to pull the IH141 (or when I realized I had posted it, but had not intended to), my immediate action would have been to pull it from the thread. Not continue posting books or replying to PMs, it would have been the #1 thing to d. Again. I can only say what I would do."

Again, this makes no sense. I decided to pull the IH141 when I looked at it again under the loupe light and realized it wasn't pressed or was pressed badly. My immediate action was to tell YOU, the only person who had shown interest (maybe) that the book was no longer going to be for sale. I also immediately started to alter the ad, which if you haven't noticed, I don't simply hide or delete, I change/add formatted text, I alter the image size to make the thread as a whole look better, I change to strikethrough, etc. That takes a couple of minutes and at precisely 1:44PM, less than a minute after letting you know I'm pulling it, I received a message from a client that I had to respond to. When I was done with the client around 2:15 to 2:20. I saved the changes to the ad. In that time, you had decided to disregard me telling you that the book was no longer for sale entirely, essentially weaponizing your take privately and publicly because you've had "sellers try that one before" as per your explanation in the discussions thread.

When I saw your 1:58 response at 2:15 and clarified my intent, you then made a pretty clear choice. You could have deleted or rescinded that take entirely once I cleared up any confusion you might have had about my intent right there and then. Nope! You chose to continue to think I was somehow trying to manipulate you or pressure you into a sale which is entirely bonkers. You then doubled down and let that "take" of yours simmer, with a follow up at 2:19 stating "never mind" guess it's going to be pulled!"

At 2:23PM, I then made you an offer that I wasn't obligated to do, an excellent deal and a promise that you'd get that book for even less than I was asking for it at the time if it graded the same, even if the value at that grade went up, or at a substantial discount if it graded higher. Not to placate you, as I don't owe you a damn thing, but as an empathetic gesture. Still not good enough for you I guess, and you chose to then re-arm your weaponized take by making sure to leave a comment about all of this in the discussion thread followed by your absolutely skewered/skewed recollection of the time line making yourself look good along the way. Had someone not mentioned my name in their response within my thread, I would not have even realized what you were up to. 

Your comments in the sales thread and in the grumble discussion thread are very difficult not to interpret as anything but DELIBERATE. I am desperately trying to give you the benefit of the doubt on this, however I think you know damn well that grumbling about your loss, (when in fact you lost NOTHING here) within the discussion thread was exactly what the doctor ordered and your experience in the threads over the years possibly has taught you that in circumstances like this, hell hath no fury like a taker and his brotherhood scorned. 

What was it that other pole-smoker posted about god forgives, but the brother hood doesn't? a few others others distinctly stated that most sellers will bend to the pressure put on them and "do the right thing" less they suffer the sad, woeful fate of irreparable reputation loss.

Well to hell with that. 

The bottom line here is that as someone of integrity, I am NOT going to bend over and be forced into a sale and give up my property for any reason when I broke no rules while others appear to be bending them to their own benefit. 

I'll be happy selling my stuff somewhere else. I hope my suspicions about you aren't true, but if they are, you should not only talk to someone about your passive aggressive sneaky tendencies but you might also want to take a long hard suck on my arse.

 

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