Anyone Seen this SOTI Related Book? (Updated with new item on p. 2)) 1 1

[Electricmastro]

On 10/19/2020 at 9:00 PM, sfcityduck said:

Me, I'd blame t.v. for the initial decline of comic reading (and later direct marketing, paper shortages, video games, the internet, and poor publisher choices).  But, I'd blame the anti-comics crusade of the 1940s for the demise of EC and lurid PCH that collectors so love to collect today.

If talking about collecting, then yes it stinks, along with factors such as tv getting more popular. Not sure if EC entirely met a demise though, with them having arguably just as much of a success of Mad magazine. And of course, aforementioned media such as The Twilight Zone, Psycho, and Warren’s horror comics gaining a reputation by the early 60s, making me wonder if the government really would have gone through with their own censorship.

[sfcityduck]

1 minute ago, Electricmastro said:

If talking about collecting, then yes it stinks, along with factors such as tv getting more popular. Not sure if EC entirely met a demise though, with them having arguably just as much of a success of Mad magazine. And of course, aforementioned media such as The Twilight Zone, Psycho, and Warren’s horror comics gaining a reputation by the early 60s, making me wonder if the government really would have gone through with their own censorship.

The Chair of the Senate Committee states in this book that censorship is basically un-American.

[jpepx78]

13 hours ago, adamstrange said:

A man of taste and refinement.

Here is a Feb 12 1955 photo of Senator Estes Kefauver who was chairman of the Senate Juvenile Delinquency subcommittee and his family with his younger kids reading “approved” comics- Western Roundup 3 and Tarzan 54. I find it highly amusing that he approved and allowed his young kids to read a western comic that contains several stories of murder and gunplay and a jungle comic with stories of a nearly naked jungle man killing lions and leopards according to the Grand Comics Database. According to the 1954 Comic Code under general standards: Scenes of excessive violence shall be prohibited. Scenes of brutal torture, excessive and unnecessary knife and gunplay, physical agony, gory and gruesome crime shall be eliminated. Under costume standards: Nudity under any form is prohibited, as is indecent or undue exposure.

Would some Disney comics seem to be a better selection?

 

This is the original caption for the photo:

The whole family of Senator Estes Kefauver goes in for the kind of reading recommended by the Juvenile Delinquency subcommittee, of which he is chairman. Kefauver, whose group is conducting hearings on comic books and TV programs for children, leads some of the approved matter to his own children as his wife Nancy looks on in their Washington home. The young Kefauvers are (left to right) David, 9; Diane, 7; Gail, 4; and Linda, 13 (standing).

 

[sfcityduck]

1 hour ago, jpepx78 said:

Here is a Feb 12 1955 photo of Senator Estes Kefauver who was chairman of the Senate Juvenile Delinquency subcommittee

Kefauver only became chairman after the re-took control of the Senate effective January 1955.  Kefauver's predecessor (and the author of Youth in Danger)Hendrickson did not seek re-election and his term ended on January 3, 1955 because he retired to become an Ambassador.

[Electricmastro]

8 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

The Chair of the Senate Committee states in this book that censorship is basically un-American.

Also interesting how Senator Capehart burned copies of Harvey’s Sad Sack as socialist propaganda, though that said, I wonder if he was just the odd reactionist senator out, like how Wertham was the odd reactionist doctor out, and that the Senate, as a whole, would have actually gone through with taking matters into their own hands and catastrophically destroying the majority of the comics industry to the point that even the success of Superman and the Fantastic Four couldn’t even salvage it. I guess we’ll never know.

[sfcityduck]

55 minutes ago, Electricmastro said:

Also interesting how Senator Capehart burned copies of Harvey’s Sad Sack as socialist propaganda, though that said, I wonder if he was just the odd reactionist senator out, like how Wertham was the odd reactionist doctor out, and that the Senate, as a whole, would have actually gone through with taking matters into their own hands and catastrophically destroying the majority of the comics industry to the point that even the success of Superman and the Fantastic Four couldn’t even salvage it. I guess we’ll never know.

Big difference between state action and rhetorical acts.  If the Senator thought government censorship was the wrong path, and the right path was private action, I don't think censorship was really an option.  

Gaines testified he was a businessman, and he ultimately made a business decision to shut down EC.  It proved smart.  The Senate had a stronger tool than legislation - bad publicity.

[Electricmastro]

1 hour ago, sfcityduck said:

Big difference between state action and rhetorical acts.  If the Senator thought government censorship was the wrong path, and the right path was private action, I don't think censorship was really an option.  

Gaines testified he was a businessman, and he ultimately made a business decision to shut down EC.  It proved smart.  The Senate had a stronger tool than legislation - bad publicity.

Yeah, it really had to due more with money than out of preserving the art of crime and horror comics themselves, which I suspect was more of a surface-level excuse out of EC publishing comics calling the government un-American, going back to Sad Sack. I certainly don’t like the fact of how many publishers shut down in the mid-50s, though as for horror comics themselves, I can agree with the idea that it delayed more horror writing art from being publisher for a little bit. Though of course, once Warren entered the picture, among other factors, and showed that full-force horror comics could indeed be published seemingly because of where you put them on the friggin racks, then by that time it really showcased how the code was based on nothing of actual substance. It seemed to only as last as long as it did out of a stamp that reassured potential buyers it was content worth buying, with any censorship being done with no solid goal, and became even more nebulous once the code started relaxing more and more, effectively becoming defunct in 2011 in favor of a ratings system which should have been used in the first place.

A 1954 ratings system, combined with how bad publicity is only temporary, as shown by how bad publicity and the government didn’t shut down book and movie businesses once books and films like Pyscho and Rosemary’s Baby came out, inclines me to think that publishers were really freaking out over nothing, even with the understanding that money-making businesses are important, and how the mediums are different. 

Of course, I can’t objectively prove many publishers would have still been successful without the code, but I somehow don’t think that other people can objectively prove the comics industry would have been destroyed without the code either, as some people have told me. I guess I just question how much ideas like “the government would have destroyed the comics industry” and “the comics code saved the comics industry from the government” actually hold merit, but again, I guess we’ll never know.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Electricmastro

[sfcityduck]

8 minutes ago, Electricmastro said:

I guess I just question how much ideas like “the government would have destroyed the comics industry” and “the comics code saved the comics industry from the government” actually hold merit, but again, I guess we’ll never know.

The government was never going to shut down the comic industry.  The Supreme Court was aggressively expanding the First Amendment  at that point in time.  Ironically, what killed PCH was free speech by folks like Wertham, parental action, and customer boycotts.  Which is as it should be in a free market of ideas.  

I'm very surprised you say: The CCA "effectively" became "defunct in 2011."  I view it as effectively defunct in the early 80s once the direct market was created.  

[Electricmastro]

10 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

killed PCH

And what rose from the ashes was post-code horror that blossomed in its own appealing way, not just with Warren, but also with DC, Marvel, and Charlton in the 70s, as well as comics like The Walking Dead much later down the line.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Electricmastro

[Cat-Man_America]

9 hours ago, Electricmastro said:

And what rose from the ashes was post-code horror that blossomed in its own appealing way, not just with Warren, but also with DC, Marvel, and Charlton in the 70s, as well as comics The Walking Dead much later down the line.

So the short version of that is ...from the glory days to the gory days. 

[Tri-Color Brian]

On 10/21/2020 at 10:06 AM, sfcityduck said:

Weird Chills of all things!

Damn, I always thought that was a Horror book...oh well, I learn something new every day...

[Tri-Color Brian]

23 hours ago, jpepx78 said:

Here is a Feb 12 1955 photo of Senator Estes Kefauver who was chairman of the Senate Juvenile Delinquency subcommittee and his family with his younger kids reading “approved” comics- Western Roundup 3 and Tarzan 54. I find it highly amusing that he approved and allowed his young kids to read a western comic that contains several stories of murder and gunplay and a jungle comic with stories of a nearly naked jungle man killing lions and leopards according to the Grand Comics Database. According to the 1954 Comic Code under general standards: Scenes of excessive violence shall be prohibited. Scenes of brutal torture, excessive and unnecessary knife and gunplay, physical agony, gory and gruesome crime shall be eliminated. Under costume standards: Nudity under any form is prohibited, as is indecent or undue exposure.

Would some Disney comics seem to be a better selection?

 

This is the original caption for the photo:

The whole family of Senator Estes Kefauver goes in for the kind of reading recommended by the Juvenile Delinquency subcommittee, of which he is chairman. Kefauver, whose group is conducting hearings on comic books and TV programs for children, leads some of the approved matter to his own children as his wife Nancy looks on in their Washington home. The young Kefauvers are (left to right) David, 9; Diane, 7; Gail, 4; and Linda, 13 (standing).

 

And this is why most "approved comics" are not sought after today.  Too many of them survived the comic "witch hunts"...which is good news for cost conscious Disney and Dell collectors like me, but not good for investors...  Of course, all of you know this all too well...

[Electricmastro]

On 10/21/2020 at 5:52 PM, jpepx78 said:

According to the 1954 Comic Code under general standards: Scenes of excessive violence shall be prohibited. Scenes of brutal torture, excessive and unnecessary knife and gunplay, physical agony, gory and gruesome crime shall be eliminated.

Speaking of which, the rule of “Ridicule or attack on any religious or racial group is never permissible.“ is definitely the comics code rule that can’t be reasonably argued against, Judge Murphy’s idiotic case with EC aside.

Seeing as how people like Wertham were right to condemn racism, as well as cases of delinquent white kids attacking other kids for being black, it’s make it all the more ashame that Wertham essentially let any good intentions against racism, including racism in comics, get pushed aside by his overreacting emotions towards biting off more he could chew by trying to find any crime and horror comics he could out of desperation in trying to lessen criminal tendencies, with little to no regard to factual based research and solid evidence. I still don’t see him as a bad man, and maybe somewhat of a good man, but if I’m truly not allowed to call him good, then I see him as a confused man who really desperately thought he knew the solutions that should be had when he really didn’t.

Also how many publishers seemingly tried not to take more risks with race by showing black people less and less in comics in the late 50s and early 60s, with perhaps the biggest exception being Tiny from Harvey Comics, who even got his own feature, and then of course Black Panther came along in the mid-60s.

[sfcityduck]

Here's another cool SOTI related item that I haven't seen before:

Anyone seen this one?  This is a single article academic journal printing of Wertham's "Psychiatry and Censorship" editorial from the American Journal of Psychotherapy, Vol. XI, No. 2, pages 249-253 (April 1957).  These single article pamphlets are a pretty standard thing for Law Journals.  They are given to authors to distribute as they see fit, usually for self-promotion.  I have a box of them from the article I wrote back when I was in law school.  I did not know the academic journals of other disciplines did these kind of single article printings for their article authors, but it makes perfect sense that they do.  It's the only thing the authors get.   This editorial discusses SOTI and censorship.

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by sfcityduck

[sfcityduck]

Here's the editorial for those who want to read it.  It's short:

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by sfcityduck

[Timely]

On 10/19/2020 at 6:40 PM, sfcityduck said:

There are not very many SOTI related items that even SOTIcollector has never seen, but this is one of them.  Does anyone own a copy?  Anyone ever seen one?  

"Youth in Danger: A Forthright Report to the American People - the Findings of the Senate Subcommittee on Juvenile Deliquency" by Sen. Robert C. Hendrickson and Fred. J. Cook. (1956) is from a chapter of comics history that sometimes gets overlooked - the  post-SOTI criticism and condemnation of comic books in the United States.  That's the author on the left:

This book is notable for its extensive Chapter on horror comics and the Senate Hearings at which Wertham, Gaines, and others testified.  

But, the real value of the book is that it (1) lets you know what the Senators who questioned Gaines were thinking, including whether they supported censorship or not, and (2) details the continuing condemnation of comics after SOTI, after the adoption of the CCA, and the skepticism that comic critics had of the CCA itself.  Really interesting stuff.

And, I think, perhaps really rare.  Much rarer than SOTI, and even rarer than POP in my opinion.  I looked, and could only find this copy.  Another copy was mentioned once before on these boards 14 years ago.  But, it sure doesn't look like its caught much attention, despite the super cool back cover.

So I look forward to learning if anyone knows about this book.

 

 

Over the decades I've seen a lot of Golden Age books with a Fred Cook ink stamp on them.  In fact IIRC, some are even in the Gerber guide!

[sfcityduck]

1 hour ago, Timely said:

Over the decades I've seen a lot of Golden Age books with a Fred Cook ink stamp on them.  In fact IIRC, some are even in the Gerber guide!

Fred was a news reporter for a NY paper.  It would be cool if he took possession of Hendrickson's stash of exhibit copies and those made it to the marketplace!  But, seems unlikely.  Maybe he was just like the rest of us, SOTI made the comics more interesting to him.

[RareHighGrade]

A few years ago, someone posted a link to a website on which you could access an audio of the hearings.  It was a fascinating listen.  I remember Dr. Wertham going on and on about the evils of Black Magic 29.  I then spent a couple of years trying to find the issue.

[sfcityduck]

18 minutes ago, RareHighGrade said:

A few years ago, someone posted a link to a website on which you could access an audio of the hearings.  It was a fascinating listen.  I remember Dr. Wertham going on and on about the evils of Black Magic 29.  I then spent a couple of years trying to find the issue.

This should make you happy:

https://www.wnyc.org/story/215964-senate-subcommittee-juvenile-delinquency/

https://www.wnyc.org/story/215975-senate-subcommittee-juvenile-delinquency-ii/

https://www.wnyc.org/story/subcommittee-to-investigate-juvenile-delinquency-and-comic-books-afternoon-session/

Edited October 30, 2020 by sfcityduck

[RareHighGrade]

2 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

This should make you happy:

https://www.wnyc.org/story/215964-senate-subcommittee-juvenile-delinquency/

That's it, thanks sfcityduck!