Nominating RICK STARR
9 9

281 posts in this topic

5,915 posts

I've long felt that this kind of issue is one sort that the boards system (PL and HoS) don't address very well.  Probation List is supposed to be for torts.  Someone got money and didn't send a comic, or someone got a comic and didn't send money (or the check bounced, etc.).  HoS is for either someone who screws over lots of board members (think The House of Comics) or really really screws over one board member (think Red Rocks).  I've long felt that the best option would be to allow negative responses to Kudo's threads, but we know the management won't allow that.  I don't really know how best to address this otherwise.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,737 posts

I detect bias in this thread, regardless of decelerations suggesting otherwise...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,299 posts
8 minutes ago, G G ® said:

Here's what I think happened.

There was definitely a delay in the cheque arriving, apparently it never arrived at all, whatever, there was a definite delay.

The seller was annoyed, so much so he changed his mind about selling it to that particular buyer.

I do not believe that the seller had any intention of doing this from 'sellers remorse' from the outset, but I suppose it's all conjecture. There has been very little input from the seller so it's hard to get the full story, but as I said there is something going on here that is not so black and white, but I can't put my finger on it.  

Whatever I don't think the PL is appropriate in this case, but that is just my humble opinion.

🤦‍♂️

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12,442 posts
1 minute ago, G G ® said:

Here's what I think happened.

There was definitely a delay in the cheque arriving, apparently it never arrived at all, whatever, there was a definite delay.

The seller was annoyed, so much so he changed his mind about selling it to that particular buyer.

I do not believe that the seller had any intention of doing this from 'sellers remorse' from the outset, but I suppose it's all conjecture. There has been very little input from the seller so it's hard to get the full story, but as I said there is something going on here that is not so black and white, but I can't put my finger on it.  

 

The seller has literally said he changed his mind, in his PMs posted here. 

The slow mail only gave him the time to stew on it enough to act on his reaction.

Also couldn't the lack of seller input on the topic be because he knows he has no leg to stand on, so what position could he argue?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50,400 posts

I've 

10 minutes ago, miraclemet said:

The seller has literally said he changed his mind, in his PMs posted here. 

The slow mail only gave him the time to stew on it enough to act on his reaction.

Also couldn't the lack of seller input on the topic be because he knows he has no leg to stand on, so what position could he argue?

I'm not saying he is in the right, but I do think his change of mind was prompted by no payment received. Perhaps he took the change of mind stance rather than admit it was prompted by annoyance, but again who knows? I've just been trying to examine all angles but I see I'm in the minority, but that's fine. It's an opinion, and we all have them.

Everyone deserves to be treated fairly whether a 2 year newb or an old stager, but just because someone makes an allegation doesn't mean it cannot be held up to scrutiny.

I'd still be interested to see the duplicate check.

With that I'm out, I've said my two cents and I wish a good outcome for both parties, like I said at the outset...no dog in the fight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,299 posts
Just now, G G ® said:

I've 

I'm not saying he is in the right, but I do think his change of mind was prompted by no payment received. Perhaps he took the change of mind stance rather than admit it was prompted by annoyance, but again who knows? I've just been trying to examine all angles but I see I'm in the minority, but that's fine. It's an opinion, and we all have them.

Everyone deserves to be treated fairly whether a 2 year newb or an old stager, but just because someone makes an allegation doesn't mean it cannot be held up to scrutiny.

I'd still be interested to see the duplicate check.

With that I'm out, I've said my two cents and I wish a good outcome for both parties, like I said at the outset...no dog in the fight.

Cite ANYTHING in the PM exchange that points to the (alleged) delay in write’s payment arriving playing a role in STARR reneging on the deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,244 posts

i have no horse in this race, other than a regular guy who often buys on these boards.

as a relative newbie, if i had shorted a book to someone, i would be easily nominated. as someone wrote before, the rules must apply to all. your years on these boards shouldn't shield you from PL, if anything they should show your understanding of the rules everyone has agreed upon.

you post a book for sale, you do everything in your power to complete the transaction. period.  

rick should be on the PL list,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27,766 posts
14 minutes ago, Chazgee said:

i have no horse in this race, other than a regular guy who often buys on these boards.

as a relative newbie, if i had shorted a book to someone, i would be easily nominated. as someone wrote before, the rules must apply to all. your years on these boards shouldn't shield you from PL, if anything they should show your understanding of the rules everyone has agreed upon.

you post a book for sale, you do everything in your power to complete the transaction. period.  

rick should be on the PL list,

To be fair, they put a well known guy in the hobby on the HOS. 

Robert Beerbohm was nominated and sent into the Hall of Shame... 

 

So... it has happened in the past and the rules do apply for all if the gauntlet is thrown. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,838 posts

I could care less about someone’s history, you are only as good as your last deal, period.  I believe the OP.  The seller should accept another check w/tracking or other form of payment and send him the book.  It really is that simple.  If not on the list he should go.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11,397 posts
5 minutes ago, Domo Arigato said:

I just read this entire thread and don't know the seller or the buyer at all.

What I do know, is that some of the posts in this thread made by long time board members are absolutely ridiculous.  

Based on the proof that's been posted and by the sellers own admission......this is probation worthy.  

It's so frigging probation worthy that it's practically a textbook example of what the probation list was created for.  In fact, if you look up Probation List in the dictionary, they should just provide a link to this thread. 

A deal was agreed upon.  The buyer was making every possible effort to make sure the seller got the payment and in the method that the seller requested.  The seller decided to back out of the deal instead. 

The seller deserves to be added to the probation list and future buyers on the forum deserve to be warned about his ethics as a seller.  

 

Image result for amen brother memes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
414 posts
15 hours ago, Foolkiller said:

I find it odd that he didn't post his own responses in the thread.  if in fact he didn't receive payment timely, I don't think he has to state in the thread this is the time at which it expires or you have until (x) to pay.  Would a month be long enough to wait?  How long should John be expected to wait?  I think if it had been someone John had done deals with in the past, he may not have been skeptical that this was going to be a 'non payer'.  When the buyer contacts him and he says he changed his mind -- I will agree it's dicey but... at the end of the day, for me, it's just not probation list worthy with all the circumstances taken into account.  

Foolkiller, did you see my entire chain of messages with John? I clearly ask him, after only 6 days, if he received the payment. I made several offers to resend a check, or pay by other means.

To your point, John and I completed a deal a couple months back for $1,000.  In fact, after I "took" the book in question, I reached out to remind him that I was the same fellow who bought his Terrors of the Jungle 17. There is no reason for him to think that I would have stiffed him this time around. And if our previous interaction had been a negative one (not sure why it would have been, but just making a point) he had the opportunity right then and there to refuse the sale.

By John's own admission, he simply decided to keep the book, regardless of whether or not the payment would get there. His response in this thread is intentionally misleading, and contradicts the chain of messages I posted, the messages that CLEARLY show that I offered a replacement payment, but he told me to wait longer. I suspect this is because he'd already made up his mind to renege. Otherwise, if timely payment was such a concern, then why keep telling me to wait on it?

At the end of the day, it makes sense that you would not find this probation worthy, seeing as how you purchased ALL the available Cole books in the very same thread to which I am referring. I am not sure how many books that was--four?--five?--but one can infer that you received them all without any trouble.

I would think that would make you just a little bit biased...

 

Edited by thewritestuff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15,066 posts
9 hours ago, thunsicker said:

I've long felt that this kind of issue is one sort that the boards system (PL and HoS) don't address very well.  Probation List is supposed to be for torts.  Someone got money and didn't send a comic, or someone got a comic and didn't send money (or the check bounced, etc.).  HoS is for either someone who screws over lots of board members (think The House of Comics) or really really screws over one board member (think Red Rocks).  I've long felt that the best option would be to allow negative responses to Kudo's threads, but we know the management won't allow that.  I don't really know how best to address this otherwise.  

That's kind of how I feel about this. I'm not comfortable with this 'all or nothing approach' to seller transgressions which can clearly vary significantly in their severity.

In most other walks of life you are judged by the totality of your actions, not a single one.  Rick Starr has been a member here since 2007 and has run countless sales thread, all seemingly successfully. He has many followers and, by his own words, a long history as a seller on and off the boards. Does all that positive history count for nothing? If this were eBay he may have a 99% feedback record with the one transgression noted. 

Rick is clearly in the wrong on this incident based on the facts presented. But people of good character sometimes make inexplicable mistakes or errors of judgement. Maybe, when Rick logged on, he might have expected some more comments from the community that he has been a part of for 13 years supportive of him as a decent guy who has acted out of character. Maybe - and again, this can happen to good people - the barrage of negative commentary (from his peers) seemed so unjust and out of proportion to him that it disabused him of the notion to put the matter right there and then. This can happen to good people - influenced by indignation, they make a bad error of judgement on top of another and all of a sudden the matter seems lost. Have you ever read an online post that was critical of you and felt the rage?

Put yourself in Rick's shoes for one minute. Almost universal condemnation for his actions from his peers. How do you think he feels? How would you feel, logging on to see your name and address posted publicly and an avalanche of criticism from your peers? Is it a part of human frailty that we can resent so strongly an accusation of impropriety - even when it is justified - that it influences us away from putting the matter right?

Rick can put this right by selling the book to the writestuff. But I think he has been smashed here, absolutely smashed, because there is no nuance to the process, no consideration of past behaviours. I doubt he'll return. Maybe a series of posts or PMs from those he has dealt with here urging Rick to do the right thing would have put this right, put him on the right path. We all make mistakes, we all have our pride.

Writestuff - you are absolutely right to feel annoyed and messed around by this event. But 157 posts of character assassination of a fellow board member of previously good standing seems as unjust to me as the crime against you. You've both lost here - you, a comic that you wanted, Rick, his board reputation.

And I dislike the mob mentality here where those who offer alternative viewpoints are themselves ganged up on and, in some indefinable way, placed on the naughty step themselves. 

There has to be a better way of managing such events and I think the one size fits all approach has clear failings. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,948 posts
3 hours ago, thewritestuff said:

At the end of the day, it makes sense that you would not find this probation worthy, seeing as how you purchased ALL the available Cole books in the very same thread to which I am referring. I am not sure how many books that was--four?--five?--but one can infer that you received them all without any trouble.

I would think that would make you just a little bit biased..

Who are you the prosecutor?  Victims are witnesses not prosecutors and witnesses are usually allowed to testify only once.  Your feelings are hurt and you’re mad. We would be too. But your actually not out anything. Can you say the same about Rick Starr? Maybe, just maybe, you could be the bigger man and turn the other cheek?
 

I bought books in same thread (in the mail I’m told). So what? Seller should obviously complete the deal. Not doing so hurts the boards.  Mob mentality hurts the boards too. Probably been a long time since we all read Hawthorne’s Scarlet Letter. Might be time for a reread. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
9 9