• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Ethics of Pressing
0

Started by Dylan.,

61 posts in this topic

  • Popular Post
Tony S

Tony S

Posted
  • Popular Post
Posted (edited)

it's an endless debate where no one changes their mind. And it goes back before CCS. It goes back (at least)  to Classics Inc, which was ultimately purchased by CGC and renamed CCS. 
 

I think of it like this:   One finds a classic car in a barn. All original, numbers match. You can pick your favorite car. I'll go with a 1970 Olds 442. 

if you repaint the car and have the interior replaced - then the car is still wonderful and desirable, but not 100 % original. Stuff has been added. 

If you have the car detailed - washed, buffed,  waxed, every little nook and crevasse cleaned . It is still original and unrestored.  And you don't have to "disclose" it. People assume unless your a total dummy that you had the car carefully cleaned before putting it in a show or your garage. 

That's pressing/cleaning of comic books.  Nothing added.  100% original 

Edited by Tony S
Link to comment
Share on other sites
KCOComics

KCOComics

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Tony S said:

it's an endless debate where no one changes their mind. And it goes back before CCS. It goes back (at least)  to Classics Inc, which was ultimately purchased by CGC and renamed CCS. 
 

I think of it like this:   One finds a classic car in a barn. All original, numbers match. You can pick your favorite car. I'll go with a 1970 Olds 442. 

if you repaint the car and have the interior replaced - then the car is still wonderful and desirable, but not 100 % original. Stuff has been added. 

If you have the car detailed - washed, buffed,  waxed, every little nook and crevasse cleaned . It is still original and unrestored.  And you don't have to "disclose" it. People assume unless your a total dummy that you had the car carefully cleaned before putting it in a show or your garage. 

That's pressing/cleaning of comic books.  Nothing added.  100% original 

That's a great metaphor. 

Pressing and cleaning doesn't really influence my buying decision. I don't strictly buy unpressed comics nor do I buy comics with the intention of improving them with a press.  For that reason,  disclosing pressing isn't that important to me. 

That said,  it's really important to some collectors.  I think sellers of expensive comics have an ethical obligation to disclose everything they know about the book, especially if the info is requested. 

Trust and integrity are everything in this space. The 3 biggest books I've ever bought have all been from the same seller. I buy from him because I know exactly what's up with the books, I know exactly how the process is going to go and I know he'll communicate with me if anything should come up. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
theCapraAegagrus

theCapraAegagrus

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Tony S said:

it's an endless debate where no one changes their mind. And it goes back before CCS. It goes back (at least)  to Classics Inc, which was ultimately purchased by CGC and renamed CCS. 
 

I think of it like this:   One finds a classic car in a barn. All original, numbers match. You can pick your favorite car. I'll go with a 1970 Olds 442. 

if you repaint the car and have the interior replaced - then the car is still wonderful and desirable, but not 100 % original. Stuff has been added. 

If you have the car detailed - washed, buffed,  waxed, every little nook and crevasse cleaned . It is still original and unrestored.  And you don't have to "disclose" it. People assume unless your a total dummy that you had the car carefully cleaned before putting it in a show or your garage. 

That's pressing/cleaning of comic books.  Nothing added.  100% original 

source.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites
B2D327

B2D327

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, KCOComics said:

That's a great metaphor. 

Pressing and cleaning doesn't really influence my buying decision. I don't strictly buy unpressed comics nor do I buy comics with the intention of improving them with a press.  For that reason,  disclosing pressing isn't that important to me. 

That said,  it's really important to some collectors.  I think sellers of expensive comics have an ethical obligation to disclose everything they know about the book, especially if the info is requested. 

Trust and integrity are everything in this space. The 3 biggest books I've ever bought have all been from the same seller. I buy from him because I know exactly what's up with the books, I know exactly how the process is going to go and I know he'll communicate with me if anything should come up. 

There’s that other number of buyers looking to bump that 9.whatever to a 9.8 that figure if it got that high a grade without a press...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dylan.

Dylan.

Posted
  • Author
Posted
On 10/30/2020 at 1:17 PM, B2D327 said:

There’s that other number of buyers looking to bump that 9.whatever to a 9.8 that figure if it got that high a grade without a press...

so then if you use natural materials found outside, like water to clean is that restoration? currently that gets the cover cleaned designation

If you marry pages and use the same book, is that technically bad? (other than the cgc stigmatization of the green label) If your headlights broke in 1970 and you got them fixed in 1970 with 1970 headlights is that different than getting them fixed now with 1970 headlights? Because wrongly IMO CGC says it's the same thing.

and if you trim you aren't adding to the book, in fact you are taking away. 

 

(I do not condone not noting restoration of any kind. The above are part of a series of ethically provocative questions. Viewer discretion is advised.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
boomcomics

boomcomics

Posted
Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, dylanthekid said:

so then if you use natural materials found outside, like water to clean is that restoration? currently that gets the cover cleaned designation

If you marry pages and use the same book, is that technically bad? (other than the cgc stigmatization of the green label) If your headlights broke in 1970 and you got them fixed in 1970 with 1970 headlights is that different than getting them fixed now with 1970 headlights? Because wrongly IMO CGC says it's the same thing.

and if you trim you aren't adding to the book, in fact you are taking away. 

 

(I do not condone not noting restoration of any kind. The above are part of a series of ethically provocative questions. Viewer discretion is advised.)

It depends on how your representing that car to the potential buyer. If you tell that buyer that your car is completely original and every part on that car is the part it left the factory with. Then they later find out you changed the headlights , whether they were the correct ones or not, you misrepresented the car. It’s still “factory correct” but it’s NOT all original. 

Edited by boomcomics
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Randall Dowling

Randall Dowling

Posted
Posted

I think to use the car analogy, if a car was in an accident, and you could hammer out the dents through some process and make it look like it had never been in an accident without repainting, just maybe some buffing and washing after the dents were fixed, and you then sold it as never having been in an accident, would that be an honest thing to do.

The answer, obviously, is no.  On a molecular level, the metal has fatigue and is weaker where it was once bent.  Comics aren’t any different. 

I would personally pay more for a raw book that had never been messed with and appeared to be a lower grade than one that’s been pressed and certified by CGC as a higher grade.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jeffro.

Jeffro.

Posted
Posted
On 10/29/2020 at 11:04 PM, dylanthekid said:

Why is Pressing/Cleaning NOT unethical and before CCS would it be considered differently?

I guess it's a good thing you didn't succeed in destroying CGC because then you wouldn't have the privilege of posting on their boards. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
joeypost

joeypost

Posted
Posted
On 11/2/2020 at 1:05 PM, Randall Dowling said:

I think to use the car analogy, if a car was in an accident, and you could hammer out the dents through some process and make it look like it had never been in an accident without repainting, just maybe some buffing and washing after the dents were fixed, and you then sold it as never having been in an accident, would that be an honest thing to do.

The answer, obviously, is no.  On a molecular level, the metal has fatigue and is weaker where it was once bent.  Comics aren’t any different. 

I would personally pay more for a raw book that had never been messed with and appeared to be a lower grade than one that’s been pressed and certified by CGC as a higher grade.

What if the metal was stronger in the area that was Hammered out"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
joeypost

joeypost

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Randall Dowling said:

I will refer you to basic material science for what happens when materials leave the elastic range and enter the plastic range of deformation.  

What if...paper behaves differently than metal. I know it's a big what if, but what if?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Randall Dowling

Randall Dowling

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, joeypost said:

What if...paper behaves differently than metal. I know it's a big what if, but what if?

LOL, you act like it's a mystery.  As if this hasn't been studied and understood by engineers for over a century.  Of course, metal behaves differently.  It's modulus of elasticity is different, it's stress curve is different, it's yield strength is different.  But all fibrous and metallic materials share similar properties of deformation.

You must already know all of this.  Are you just messing around?  You've been pressing books for a long time.  Haven't you ever looked into what's actually happening on an atomic and molecular level?  It's all readily accessible information.  Do a google search.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
joeypost

joeypost

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Randall Dowling said:

LOL, you act like it's a mystery.  As if this hasn't been studied and understood by engineers for over a century.  Of course, metal behaves differently.  It's modulus of elasticity is different, it's stress curve is different, it's yield strength is different.  But all fibrous and metallic materials share similar properties of deformation.

You must already know all of this.  Are you just messing around?  You've been pressing books for a long time.  Haven't you ever looked into what's actually happening on an atomic and molecular level?  It's all readily accessible information.  Do a google search.

I'm just messing with you. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
0
Go to topic listing