Randall Dowling Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 20 hours ago, comicginger1789 said: I mean, imagine if for cars there was a machine that smoothed out dents without you having to repaint or anything....you can't tell me car collectors would be upset and saying "oh no you removed all those dents and kept everything else original, boooo give me back the dents". Same thing in my eyes for pressing. You clearly don't know car collectors. Those guys freak out if you don't have the correct vintage grease pencil marking on parts. I'm talking the actual grease pencil used in 1950 or whatever to mark on the underside of the hood. Yes, I think they would care if you smoothed out dents. Just like people care if a car title has been salvaged. Even if it "appears" to be just like other cars. 20 hours ago, comicginger1789 said: Once again, if you have showroom car that rolled off the lot back in 1960 and into a museum and you also have barn find car that is cleaned up with a good wash and looks exactly the same, does it really matter that one sat in a showroom all its life and the other had a bath but is now the same car? Yes, yes it does. I want the one that was stored in the museum. Have you ever seen a car come out of a barn? It takes more than a "good wash" to look "exactly the same". The car analogy is really bad. If you're an advocate for pressing (and apparently not disclosing), you should stop using it. It's not helping your cause. As @PovertyRow said before, not only do you guys not understand car collectors, the materials are completely different. It's a specious argument. PovertyRow 1 Link to post Share on other sites
comicginger1789 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 2 hours ago, Randall Dowling said: You clearly don't know car collectors. Those guys freak out if you don't have the correct vintage grease pencil marking on parts. I'm talking the actual grease pencil used in 1950 or whatever to mark on the underside of the hood. Yes, I think they would care if you smoothed out dents. Just like people care if a car title has been salvaged. Even if it "appears" to be just like other cars. Yes, yes it does. I want the one that was stored in the museum. Have you ever seen a car come out of a barn? It takes more than a "good wash" to look "exactly the same". The car analogy is really bad. If you're an advocate for pressing (and apparently not disclosing), you should stop using it. It's not helping your cause. As @PovertyRow said before, not only do you guys not understand car collectors, the materials are completely different. It's a specious argument. It's just an analogy...obviously a barn car will be worse than a museum one. I'm saying if a wash and clean is all it took to get the barn car to be exactly the same as a museum one, would it matter? Again, not a likely scenario at all. My point being your comic is getting a bath. Just like a barn car would. Nobody yells at someone who takes a dusty barn car and washes it up. Start chaging stuff, sure....just like comics, you cut, trim, add, glue or change the book and we care. I am not an advocate for pressing. Never pressed a book in my life. I just don't think it should matter if Joe Blow has a 9.0 book that was never pressed and Susie Loo has a 9.0 that was....one is not better than the other IMO. Link to post Share on other sites
Angel of Death Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, comicginger1789 said: It's just an analogy...obviously a barn car will be worse than a museum one. I'm saying if a wash and clean is all it took to get the barn car to be exactly the same as a museum one, would it matter? Again, not a likely scenario at all. My point being your comic is getting a bath. Just like a barn car would. Nobody yells at someone who takes a dusty barn car and washes it up. Start chaging stuff, sure....just like comics, you cut, trim, add, glue or change the book and we care. I am not an advocate for pressing. Never pressed a book in my life. I just don't think it should matter if Joe Blow has a 9.0 book that was never pressed and Susie Loo has a 9.0 that was....one is not better than the other IMO. Assuming that it was professionally and properly done, then I agree. Link to post Share on other sites
comicginger1789 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 I'll agree that if someone presses a book, gets it graded and then advertises it as having never been pressed, that is shady. However, if you press a book, get it graded and just sell it as it is, a 9.0, I don't feel you need to disclose that you pressed it. Obviously, if someone asks you can say "yup, been pressed". I understand there are a number of people who might try to pass off 8.5-9.0 books as having never been pressed to buyers hoping to press it into a 9.2-9.6 or whatever. That in itself is a silly game IMO but people do it. So maybe I see the case for CGC noting on books they have pressed that they have done so. Link to post Share on other sites
comicginger1789 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said: Assuming that it was professionally and properly done, then I agree. Yes...amateurs + press = disasters MR SigS 1 Link to post Share on other sites
comicginger1789 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 15 minutes ago, NoProbBob said: Oh I definitely disagree with this. One is an original book, and one is no longer in original condition because it has been manipulated/restored by a machine after humidity and heat was added. Original is always better. I don't want my books pancaked by a greedy presser To what extent though? How much more are you willing to pay for the "unpressed"? It can't be that substantial. If pressed book was $100 and non pressed book was $200 would you bite the bullet? Link to post Share on other sites
csaag Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 1 hour ago, NoProbBob said: Oh I definitely disagree with this. One is an original book, and one is no longer in original condition because it has been manipulated/restored by a machine after humidity and heat was added. Original is always better. I don't want my books pancaked by a greedy presser Pressers are providing a service requested by the owner of the book so I don't see how they are 'greedy' Heat & Humidity aren't permanently added to the book like tape or color markers etc so I don't quite get that one either. Pressure is also applied which obviously isn't permanently added either. What if I just stack a couple dictionaries on top of a book for a while? Or place a comic on the bottom of a large stack of other comics? MR SigS 1 Link to post Share on other sites
William-James88 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 20 minutes ago, csaag said: Heat & Humidity aren't permanently added to the book like tape or color markers etc so I don't quite get that one either. Ah, color markers, that's another thing Dylan (the person who started this thread that we are all commenting on) said should not affect a book being labeled as restored or not: Quote I do not believe the color touch was additive to the grade in anyway and [the label] should have been blue. thehumantorch and kimik 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
kimik Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, William-James88 said: 1 hour ago, csaag said: Heat & Humidity aren't permanently added to the book like tape or color markers etc so I don't quite get that one either. Ah, color markers, that's another thing Dylan (the person who started this thread that we are all commenting on) said should not affect a book being labeled as restored or not: Quote I do not believe the color touch was additive to the grade in anyway and [the label] should have been blue. This guy keeps getting better and better with his views on restoration. Like I stated in the locked Strict Grading thread, pressing/restoration services should really think twice about whether their posts will deter people from ever using them or buying from them....... Edited November 12, 2020 by kimik Link to post Share on other sites
thehumantorch Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 2 hours ago, kimik said: This guy keeps getting better and better with his views on restoration. Like I stated in the locked Strict Grading thread, pressing/restoration services should really think twice about whether their posts will deter people from ever using them or buying from them....... Clearly Dylan cares more about making money than he does about the hobby or the comics he's selling Angel of Death and MR SigS 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Math Teacher Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 7 hours ago, NoProbBob said: Oh I definitely disagree with this. One is an original book, and one is no longer in original condition because it has been manipulated/restored by a machine after humidity and heat was added. Original is always better. I don't want my books pancaked by a greedy presser Man, I thought I had a bad case of OCD.... Link to post Share on other sites
csaag Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 4 hours ago, NoProbBob said: You have a long way to go before we can discuss this as peers. So? Plenty of conversations on these boards among people who aren't 'peers'. Why would that be needed to explain a point like 'greedy pressers'? Link to post Share on other sites
comicginger1789 Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 I think he just wants you to clarify your point. While I understand the “greedy pressers” statement to a degree I don’t think most people are pressing for greedy purposes. A few sure and some are hiding or lying about it bht certainly not the respected majority. Link to post Share on other sites
Math Teacher Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 2 hours ago, NoProbBob said: Luckily I have no real OCD and no fake comic book OCD. In fact people with OCD would freak out if they saw the way I treat my comics Let me guess. You have all your comics piled up around you, while you sit in the middle with a shotgun. Is that about right? Go ahead and repeat your self ad infinitum. Saying something over and over (and over and over...) doesn't make it true. Link to post Share on other sites
Angel of Death Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 12 hours ago, comicginger1789 said: I think he just wants you to clarify your point. While I understand the “greedy pressers” statement to a degree I don’t think most people are pressing for greedy purposes. A few sure and some are hiding or lying about it bht certainly not the respected majority. I'm pretty sure that "most" people are pressing out of some consideration for greed. Think about how many books are pressed. Think about how many are barely - if at all - structurally improved by the process. There are very few instances in which I agree with pressing a book. Too many people just wanna pancake the damn things. Randall Dowling 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Spawnfreak Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 28 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said: I'm pretty sure that "most" people are pressing out of some consideration for greed. Think about how many books are pressed. Think about how many are barely - if at all - structurally improved by the process. There are very few instances in which I agree with pressing a book. Too many people just wanna pancake the damn things. IMO- If I have a Spawn 1 newsstand with a small finger break on the back, and in my opinion it is otherwise a 9.8, I'm having Jumbo sit on that sucker! Angel of Death 1 Link to post Share on other sites
joeypost Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 54 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said: I'm pretty sure that "most" people are pressing out of some consideration for greed. Think about how many books are pressed. Think about how many are barely - if at all - structurally improved by the process. There are very few instances in which I agree with pressing a book. Too many people just wanna pancake the damn things. You can apply that logic to every job. Who works for free? Who feels they are underpaid? Believe it or not, I don't press every book. I let my customers know which ones would improve from a press, and which ones will not. comicdonna, Randall Dowling, silverseeker and 1 other 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Angel of Death Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 1 minute ago, joeypost said: You can apply that logic to every job. Who works for free? Who feels they are underpaid? Believe it or not, I don't press every book. I let my customers know which ones would improve from a press, and which ones will not. I'm sorry, Joey, I wasn't referring to the actual pressers (people). I was referring to those who get books pressed. Link to post Share on other sites
joeypost Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 8 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said: I'm sorry, Joey, I wasn't referring to the actual pressers (people). I was referring to those who get books pressed. Understood. I have some customers that ask me to review books to see if they need a press, I have some that ask me to press everything, and yet a select few who are not happy unless they get the grade they want. You cannot "will" a book in to being a 9.8...unless it has the potential to begin with, no matter how many times you press it. csaag, Randall Dowling and Angel of Death 3 Link to post Share on other sites
comicginger1789 Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said: I'm sorry, Joey, I wasn't referring to the actual pressers (people). I was referring to those who get books pressed. I totally agree that there is a growing market of buyers who are buying raw books (or even slabbed 9.0-9.4 books) and hoping pressing will result in a magic bump. I think that is a silly game to play and results in people getting upset at pressers, CGC and the like because they are bent outta shape that their books weren't magically turned into high grade copies. Pressing does not equal a grade bump. Pressing the right defects will result in a possible grade bump. Edited November 13, 2020 by comicginger1789 Angel of Death 1 Link to post Share on other sites
