Darrow - Hard Boiled art 2 2

[Dayzen]

I’ve recently been looking at Darrow Hard Boiled art. So did Geoff do all the art on vellum or did he do some on art board? I’m confused because I see panels, vellum, prelim, etc... 

What is considered the original art to get? 
 

Any help or information would be appreciated. Thanks 

[Overthetopinc]

Geof for Hard Boiled pages were mainly comprised of many small drawings that were put together to lay a sheet of onion skin over the pencils and create the page. I have some but they are all double page spreads and splashes on one board which is why I got them. Much of his Hard Boiled vellum pieces got damaged over the years. Like he told me 80% of the work are in the pencils.

[Dayzen]

30 minutes ago, Overthetopinc said:

Geof for Hard Boiled pages were mainly comprised of many small drawings that were put together to lay a sheet of onion skin over the pencils and create the page. I have some but they are all double page spreads and splashes on one board which is why I got them. Much of his Hard Boiled vellum pieces got damaged over the years. Like he told me 80% of the work are in the pencils.

Thanks for the info. So the panels would be like the prelims with the vellums being the published page? Which explains why the vellums are so much more. I guess?

Trying to figure it out because I’d like to get a page.

[Overthetopinc]

no there is more work on the pencils. The vellum is just cleaner but a tracing and technically what is published. As far as which is worth more it all depends on the piece. Hard Boiled was constructed in a very unusual way. One vellum panel page can have 8 different pieces of pencils. He does not work that way anymore. I collect his pencils because they are so beautiful in their raw form but there are not many Hard Boiled inked vellum pieces out there. Most got damaged and such. If I come across any, I will let you know.

[Dayzen]

2 minutes ago, Overthetopinc said:

no there is more work on the pencils. The vellum is just cleaner but a tracing and technically what is published. As far as which is worth more it all depends on the piece. Hard Boiled was constructed in a very unusual way. One vellum panel page can have 8 different pieces of pencils. He does not work that way anymore. I collect his pencils because they are so beautiful in their raw form but there are not many Hard Boiled inked vellum pieces out there. Most got damaged and such. If I come across any, I will let you know.

Got it. Thanks for the education. 

[ESeffinga]

And there is a BUNCH of Hard Boiled vellum drawings out there. Not pages, but drawings of various characters that were done after the book was published. Some of the same poses and drawings have been done over and over again. All are inked by Darrow on vellum, and most have little differences in the details. But something else to be aware of.

And with Darrow art, it’s not just Hard Boiled, but Shaolin Cowboy, Big Guy and Rusty (so much big guy and rusty!!!) and more. For years Geoff would bring these vellum drawings to sell at shows. Many/most not being published drawings but possibly inked from pencils done for published drawings, if that makes sense. 

[Overthetopinc]

The Hard Boiled drawings you talk of are post 2000 when he starting doing them for conventions. Those should not be confused with the art from the early 90's. And lot of those are on boards not vellum. In fact the only Hard Boiled Nixon drawing I found from the 90's I bought and had to pay good money for. Again, there are a ton of those drawings he brings to conventions but that is not what I was referring too.

[mediaslave]

Does anyone know if Darrow is signing anything? I want my Hardboiled set signed. Got it out for Frank, definitely need Geof. 

[ESeffinga]

21 hours ago, Overthetopinc said:

The Hard Boiled drawings you talk of are post 2000 when he starting doing them for conventions.

And was writing my response to the OP and not to you, but since you mention it, this is 100% not correct. I didn’t buy any art directly from Darrow after 1998, (in Chicago, if anyone cares). My Darrow art collecting pre-dated that show, from 3-4 years prior as we’d see him every year.

Geoff was absolutely bringing vellum drawings to conventions in the 90s. I bought several from him, usually a piece or two every year. I stopped going to those Cons after my 99trip to SD. I can tell you what years and what shows even. Some of the art was published, like the Shade The Changing Man piece from another Vertigo gallery comic, or a Transmet cover. Several were absolutely not. And were 100% based on already published work. He had Nixon art every single time we saw him.

In fact I bought 2 non-hard boiled pieces from the same show that were essentially the same art work, with only the main figures changed out. One was published in one of the Sandman art gallery books, the other was Big Guy and Rusty in the same piece (giant car filled with frogs at a gas station) little Morpheus and/or little Big Guy. Same show. Same size vellum. And then a year or two later I saw someone with yet another copy of that drawing with yet another character in the piece in place of Sandman and Big Guy. Which was when I finally got wise to Darrow’s recycling of certain images. Then post-2000 as you say, they became super obvious and everywhere.
 

Of course there are pencil on board pieces out there, and those are generally originals, though Darrow has also been known to light box pencils from time to time. You can usually tell the working pencils though as they don’t tend to be all that clean. They show work on the page.
 

The earlier in the the 90s the piece is, the more likely it is a 1-off that is also for sure, as this tendency to repeat images really wasn’t as common until the mid to later 90s.

But they are absolutely out there. Dated and all. And some of the later 90s and into the 2000s pieces are redrawn/revisited bits from the early 90s. 
And Darrow’s modern art is still produced the same way. So published inks are on vellum, and unpublished ones look very similar. They are generally priced accordingly. But this is why Darrow’s art has never hit the highs of other artists. His process scares off many would-be collectors.

Just something to keep in mind for someone who is just getting into Darrow’s art. It’s something to be aware of. 
 

I should add, by mid-90s Darrow had sold every pencil page of Hard Boiled already. I asked him about pages as early as 95, I think, and they were gone. He may have held a few back and sold them at a later date, but my direct experience with him was the vellum inks were a way of hooking up fans with what they wanted. The real trick is to look at the dates! He dated a lot of that stuff. Some is only signed, but much was dated.

Edited November 18, 2020 by ESeffinga

[ESeffinga]

16 hours ago, mediaslave said:

Does anyone know if Darrow is signing anything? I want my Hardboiled set signed. Got it out for Frank, definitely need Geof. 

He does happily sign things in my past experience. I’ve seen a number of people share their signed books in recent years. You just have to catch him at a show. If he has a chance he is also very kind with little doodles in his hardcover books, from what I’ve seen. 
 

[Dayzen]

5 minutes ago, ESeffinga said:

And was writing my response to the OP and not to you, but since you mention it, this is 100% not correct. I didn’t buy any art directly from Darrow after 1998, (in Chicago, if anyone cares). My Darrow art collecting pre-dated that show, from 3-4 years prior as we’d see him every year.

Geoff was absolutely bringing vellum drawings to conventions in the 90s. I bought several from him, usually a piece or two every year. I stopped going to those Cons after my 99trip to SD. I can tell you what years and what shows even. Some of the art was published, like the Shade The Changing Man piece from another Vertigo gallery comic, or a Transmet cover. Several were absolutely not. And were 100% based on already published work. He had Nixon art every single time we saw him.

In fact I bought 2 non-hard boiled pieces from the same show that were essentially the same art work, with only the main figures changed out. One was published in one of the Sandman art gallery books, the other was Big Guy and Rusty in the same piece (giant car filled with frogs at a gas station) little Morpheus and/or little Big Guy. Same show. Same size vellum. And then a year or two later I saw someone with yet another copy of that drawing with yet another character in the piece in place of Sandman and Big Guy. Which was when I finally got wise to Darrow’s recycling of certain images. Then post-2000 as you say, they became super obvious and everywhere.
 

Of course there are pencil on board pieces out there, and those are generally originals, though Darrow has also been known to light box pencils from time to time. You can usually tell the working pencils though as they don’t tend to be all that clean. They show work on the page.
 

The earlier in the the 90s the piece is, the more likely it is a 1-off that is also for sure, as this tendency to repeat images really wasn’t as common until the mid to later 90s.

But they are absolutely out there. Dated and all. And some of the later 90s and into the 2000s pieces are redrawn/revisited bits from the early 90s. 
And Darrow’s modern art is still produced the same way. So published inks are on vellum, and unpublished ones look very similar. They are generally priced accordingly. But this is why Darrow’s art has never hit the highs of other artists. His process scares off many would-be collectors.

Just something to keep in mind for someone who is just getting into Darrow’s art. It’s something to be aware of. 

Thanks. What you just said is the reason I’m skeptical in getting a piece. I’d really like a piece.

as an example, the Comic Art Live Con had a pice from Hard Boiled for sale. I liked it but after researching I saw that it might be a prelim. It was ink on paper and a panel from the first issue. For $5500, I was definitely hesitant. 

[ESeffinga]

I don’t blame you. The real thing is to match up the inks to the published art. While Darrow does re-ink pieces, he doesn’t do slavish recreations. The details and linework will differ on the re-inks. You just have to really looks close.

And often the re-inks are similar poses you will see over and over. I see it way more with Shaolin Cowboy and Big Guy than Hard Boiled, other than a couple of very popular shots from that book. The full figure Nixon standing pose, and the kicking in the car hood shot are the ones I’ve seen the most. 
 

The other thing that put me off was Vellum isn’t exactly an archival material. In recent years he has switched over to using more paper than he used to. But so much older vellum yellows or grows brittle. It’s like markers, in that I won’t buy that stuff myself anymore. I want to display the art. I just don’t trust the materials.

But there are good pencil pieces out there to be had in people’s collections, line overthetop mentions. I’ve seen some doozies over the years. Just be prepared to pony up for them.

[Overthetopinc]

Very interesting Eric. I did not know that. I can almost always tell a convention drawing from something that was published from the 90's era. If you have the time I would love to see one or two of your Darrow Hard Boiled pieces you bought from him at a convention in the 90s. Darrow pencils for me are the way to go. They are rough but beautiful in their own raw way and he told me that is 80% of the work. This is the only unpublished Hardboiled piece I own. It was made to be a guide to s statue they made around that time. It was done on gray vellum that they stopped making in the 90's. He had to change. What are your pieces on for my own curiosity? 

[Dayzen]

Please share your pieces. Thanks 🙏 

[ESeffinga]

Let me see what I can dig up old scans or photos of.  Alas, I sold and or traded off all my old Darrow art over the last 2 decades, with the exception of this one more recent piece (inked on paper not vellum) that hangs in my kitchen.
One of our dogs is a Frenchie, and I can attest to the accuracy of the drool and stares any time we have food. Which is why it hangs where it does. The struggle is real. 

I may have some old scans of art tho, and maybe even some at the show photos. I can't recall exactly what. Been ages since I scrolled through all that material. I'll check my other computer a bit later on.

 

 

 

[Overthetopinc]

Ya the styles are completely different to me but more importantly I have a Frenchie too. Long live the Frenchie! Here is a pic of Sir Newton French the First

[ESeffinga]

Bruce:

The Mrs is still working on the main computer,so I haven't checked there yet, but here's a little fun. I stumbled across an old art insurance binder a few weeks back when cleaning out a closet. Back in the pre-internet/website days, I used to print scans of the art with notes about the pieces as part of my then art insurance policy. This was in the era of the Iomega Zip and Jaz drives, when the occasional hard "floppy" disk was still around and people didn't yet have the ability to save CDs yet, and there were no such thing as DVDs, much less the ability to burn them. Hahah.

Anyhow, so this binder is a bit of a show. I don't think I have 90% of what is in there anymore, and it's THICK. I couldn't find my Hard Boild panel piece, or my Sandman one, which ticks me off as it should have been next to this Big Guy. My other Big Guy monster published page was not in there either, and I'm not sure why. tBut since I mentioned these earlier I guess having a crappy black and white copy printed out in a binder is better than nothing for show and tell purposes...

Pretty sure the Shade Darrow piece ended up with Scott Eder, and I can't recall where the Big Guy or Sandman pieces ended up. Eder might have gotten the Sandman one. I think the Big Guy version went to Ebay. They may both have. And I think the Nixon piece ended up with Danker? I know he got my Sam Kieth Sandman.

 

That insurance binder is a crazy flashback. So much in there I'm SO glad I got rid of. But I'm veering wildly off topic.

-e.

 

 

 

 

[Overthetopinc]

Cute Frenchie heh heh. As for the Darrow's, ya those are the pieces I would pick up and give away for free when I did larger deals. Darrow at his best is evident in the quality of the piece and they can get pricey. You just got to know what you are doing. If someone wants to collect Darrow art I would not point him in the direction at the stuff he would do for shows no matter when he started. I would say try and build a network so you can find pieces like this...

[art4comics.com]

a little late to the topic but thought i'd share my insight.  i have owned about 20 darrow pieces over the years including 4 published pages from hardboiled.  i currently still own one i got in the past year that had been on a friends wall for the 2 decades i have known him. it is in great shape and has not aged despite being framed in an non-archival frame.  i still have 3 other non-hardboiled darrow pieces.

as far as i know, almost all published darrow art is on vellum.  he works his prelims out on paper and then lightboxes the final images on vellum with either pencil or inks.  that has always been his process.  i have not seen sequential art by darrow in some time so not sure if the individual panels are all done in the prelim stage are on separate paper or on one larger sheet but the pages i have seen have all been on his vellum.  i would like clarify the vellum.  this is not the thin, brittle tracing paper used many decades ago and that is the kind i worry about becoming very yellow and brittle.  the paper geof uses is thinker and i don't think has the same poor archival properties as that tracing paper.  i have owned pieces of darrow art from before hardboiled and he was using thicker vellum even back then.  i am not sure about this onion skin paper people are describing(i know what it is but have not seen it associated with geof)

if anyone can provide proof of his vellum yellowing, becoming brittle or damaged, i would appreciate seeing some first hand images of this destruction and decay as that has not been my experience and might change how i display his art.

as to convention offering.  geof uses his same process for convention drawings.  he has a number of pre-drawn images at home and he lightboxes these onto vellum and will combine different elements in different ways to create a new image.  for example you might get totoro and a dog or totoro and monster or whatever he decides.  these are common but back in the day i don't think they were.  the first few times i met geof circa 2005 he brought no original art with him but subsequently i have seen him at over a dozen conventions and he brings a portfolio full of these kinds of drawings.  i remember when he first started to bring these, dealers would buy him out at the opening of the show as there was so much pent up demand for his art and they made quick and profitable flips.  after the first half dozen or so conventions when he started to sell art, the dealers backed off as the supply was no longer limited.  lots of these illustrations make their way on to the secondary market.  andy brown in the UK has (or had) a number of nice, published darrow pieces for sale recently.  

 

jeff

 

[mediaslave]

On 12/1/2020 at 1:28 AM, art4comics.com said:

a little late to the topic but thought i'd share my insight.  i have owned about 20 darrow pieces over the years including 4 published pages from hardboiled.  i currently still own one i got in the past year that had been on a friends wall for the 2 decades i have known him. it is in great shape and has not aged despite being framed in an non-archival frame.  i still have 3 other non-hardboiled darrow pieces.

as far as i know, almost all published darrow art is on vellum.  he works his prelims out on paper and then lightboxes the final images on vellum with either pencil or inks.  that has always been his process.  i have not seen sequential art by darrow in some time so not sure if the individual panels are all done in the prelim stage are on separate paper or on one larger sheet but the pages i have seen have all been on his vellum.  i would like clarify the vellum.  this is not the thin, brittle tracing paper used many decades ago and that is the kind i worry about becoming very yellow and brittle.  the paper geof uses is thinker and i don't think has the same poor archival properties as that tracing paper.  i have owned pieces of darrow art from before hardboiled and he was using thicker vellum even back then.  i am not sure about this onion skin paper people are describing(i know what it is but have not seen it associated with geof)

if anyone can provide proof of his vellum yellowing, becoming brittle or damaged, i would appreciate seeing some first hand images of this destruction and decay as that has not been my experience and might change how i display his art.

as to convention offering.  geof uses his same process for convention drawings.  he has a number of pre-drawn images at home and he lightboxes these onto vellum and will combine different elements in different ways to create a new image.  for example you might get totoro and a dog or totoro and monster or whatever he decides.  these are common but back in the day i don't think they were.  the first few times i met geof circa 2005 he brought no original art with him but subsequently i have seen him at over a dozen conventions and he brings a portfolio full of these kinds of drawings.  i remember when he first started to bring these, dealers would buy him out at the opening of the show as there was so much pent up demand for his art and they made quick and profitable flips.  after the first half dozen or so conventions when he started to sell art, the dealers backed off as the supply was no longer limited.  lots of these illustrations make their way on to the secondary market.  andy brown in the UK has (or had) a number of nice, published darrow pieces for sale recently.  

 

jeff

 

If there is any way you'd be willing to sell me a photocopy of that for my wall, I'd be thrilled as all hell.