Light scuffing = 8.0? Done with CGC 5 5

[Hollywood1892]

40 minutes ago, G G ® said:

Really?

That's a flawed opinion Chris, in my opinion.

I used to buy slabs to crack out for my collection. Years ago when I used to collect SA Detective & Batman I cracked out several sweet books. In one I found burn holes thru' several inside pages, not reflected in the grade. One I found snow white pages classed as COW, another I found obviously creamish pages classified as white.

I know CGC has huge volume traffic and in such a massive business there will inevitably be SNAFUS, but I stopped cracking out as a result, it was like opening Pandora's box.

Anyone who thinks buying a book in a slab with an assigned grade on a label is a GUARANTEE is quite frankly naive.

It is a gamble, and a big one.

What's the first thing you do when you buy anything second hand or pre-owned, ANYTHING at all?.....you inspect it, see if the seller was telling the truth.

With a book in a slab you are placing all the trust in some complete unknown person having their best day...handling, grading and assessing your book.

That gamble for me now is predicated these days, on the rare occasions I buy, on NOT opening the slab.

A slab is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna git.  

 

You'll make me want to quit collecting with comments like these!

But you are right!

Edited November 22, 2020 by Hollywood1892

[THE_BEYONDER]

14 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

I felt my statement was false about halfway through making it

And yet, you still clicked submit.

 

 

 

[Hollywood1892]

3 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

And yet, you still clicked submit.

 

 

 

TBH most threads and questions about collecting have long been answered...even massive amounts of complaints about CGCs grading criteria....even at times, evidenced(at least in the case of posting, and occasionally without factual evidence). I mean with all the complaints about how horrible CGC grading is, why do people even buy books? From what it seems they aren't worth the paper they are printed on.From some of the complaints its no wonder CGC hasn't been run out of town. I mean why spend $100 on an encased book, let alone several thousands of dollars? Is CGC the only company worth going too on top of the cesspool of collecting?

[The Lions Den]

4 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

TBH most threads and questions about collecting have long been answered...even massive amounts of complaints about CGCs grading criteria....even at times, evidenced(at least in the case of posting, and occasionally without factual evidence). I mean with all the complaints about how horrible CGC grading is, why do people even buy books? From what it seems they aren't worth the paper they are printed on.From some of the complaints its no wonder CGC hasn't been run out of town. I mean why spend $100 on an encased book, let alone several thousands of dollars? Is CGC the only company worth going too on top of the cesspool of collecting?

And the answer to your last question is a resounding yes...

[The Lions Den]

40 minutes ago, G G ® said:

Really?

That's a flawed opinion Chris, in my opinion.

I used to buy slabs to crack out for my collection. Years ago when I used to collect SA Detective & Batman I cracked out several sweet books. In one I found burn holes thru' several inside pages, not reflected in the grade. One I found snow white pages classed as COW, another I found obviously creamish pages classified as white.

I know CGC has huge volume traffic and in such a massive business there will inevitably be SNAFUS, but I stopped cracking out as a result, it was like opening Pandora's box.

Anyone who thinks buying a book in a slab with an assigned grade on a label is a GUARANTEE is quite frankly naive.

It is a gamble, and a big one.

What's the first thing you do when you buy anything second hand or pre-owned, ANYTHING at all?.....you inspect it, see if the seller was telling the truth.

With a book in a slab you are placing all the trust in some complete unknown person having their best day...handling, grading and assessing your book.

That gamble for me now is predicated these days, on the rare occasions I buy, on NOT opening the slab.

A slab is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna git.  

 

RUN FORREST, RUN!!!  

[Hollywood1892]

Just now, The Lions Den said:

And the answer to your last question is a resounding yes...

I've never bought something I've spent thousands of dollars on because I liked it, I spent the money because I hope to garner a return on it. Threads like these are designed to "pump fear" into the heart of the collector. They aren't a warning, they aren't beneficial to the site. They are completely worthless threads!

[The Lions Den]

33 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

I felt my statement was false about halfway through making it

I would say that overall CGC still has a pretty favorable track record...but you can't always judge a book by the cover.   

 

[Hollywood1892]

3 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

I would say that overall CGC still has a pretty favorable track record...but you can't always judge a book by the cover.   

 

Sadly in this case you are though...clearly the OP was disgruntled with the grade (why he posted a click bait) and there has been decent contributions to the thread, but at the end of the day there is no guarantee with anything then why be legally able to call yourself the Certified Guaranty Company if you really aren't guaranteeing anything? I mean are they guaranteeing their opinion?

I don't mean to discuss semantics and I'm not being sarcastic, but despite my tongue in cheek post that elicited a response from two reputable and imo respected board members, @G G ® response was the most concerning and I think relates (though I wonder how truthfully) to the OPs concern.

If I'm done with something I don't announce it to the world, I simply fade away...clearly the thread is designed to draw attention, and if this attention is drawn to a problematic concern with the practices of CGC then it needs to be addressed

[The Lions Den]

5 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

I've never bought something I've spent thousands of dollars on because I liked it, I spent the money because I hope to garner a return on it. Threads like these are designed to "pump fear" into the heart of the collector. They aren't a warning, they aren't beneficial to the site. They are completely worthless threads!

I understand the frustration, but I try to look at the educational side of it. The more you can learn about the certification process, the better your chances of success. I have seen an increase in the amount of mistakes being made, but the vast majority of the ones I've seen have been Quality Control issues. The grading aspect of it seems to be pretty steady, especially in the vintage area. Just my   

[Ride the Tiger]

I enjoy buying raws off ebay that the average collector wouldn't think about even entering a bid. Usually from poor description and or pictures. I've gotten some great books dirt cheap to submit. I also have a stack of "aahhh this looks like @$%#&" books that never get submitted. Its become a fun little game for me. Its all on me so I never fault the seller or leave negative feedback. 

[Hollywood1892]

6 minutes ago, Ride the Tiger said:

I enjoy buying raws off ebay that the average collector wouldn't think about even entering a bid. Usually from poor description and or pictures. I've gotten some great books dirt cheap to submit. I also have a stack of "aahhh this looks like @$%#&" books that never get submitted. Its become a fun little game for me. Its all on me so I never fault the seller or leave negative feedback. 

Accountabilty

[The Lions Den]

6 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

Sadly in this case you are though...clearly the OP was disgruntled with the grade (why he posted a click bait) and there has been decent contributions to the thread, but at the end of the day there is no guarantee with anything then why be legally able to call yourself the Certified Guaranty Company if you really aren't guaranteeing anything? I mean are they guaranteeing their opinion?

As with so many things in life, there are no real guarantees. And when we enter the realm of fragile paper collectibles, the odds are not always in our favor. We choose to roll the dice and take our chances. Sometimes we win, and sometimes...well...you know...

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

10 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

Sadly in this case you are though...clearly the OP was disgruntled with the grade (why he posted a click bait) and there has been decent contributions to the thread, but at the end of the day there is no guarantee with anything then why be legally able to call yourself the Certified Guaranty Company if you really aren't guaranteeing anything? I mean are they guaranteeing their opinion?

I don't mean to discuss semantics and I'm not being sarcastic, but despite my tongue in cheek post that elicited a response from two reputable and imo respected board members, @G G ® response was the most concerning and I think relates (though I wonder how truthfully) to the OPs concern.

If I'm done with something I don't announce it to the world, I simply fade away...clearly the thread is designed to draw attention, and if this attention is drawn to a problematic concern with the practices of CGC then it needs to be addressed

 

7 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

I understand the frustration, but I try to look at the educational side of it. The more you can learn about the certification process, the better your chances of success. I have seen an increase in the amount of mistakes being made, but the vast majority of the ones I've seen have been Quality Control issues. The grading aspect of it seems to be pretty steady, especially in the vintage area. Just my   

I would hope also that CGC reads this thread and is maybe inspired to do better. No business is perfect and I have to say that most of the time they get things right, or I would like to believe that.

I would also add that I would rather buy a raw book, graded from a seller whom I trust, than a slab....all day long.

[mattn792]

10 hours ago, astrometric said:

For those not in the know; some of the greatest lyrics in the history of music production. The drop @ 2:56 still holds up. 

 

This is the greatest song ever.

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

19 minutes ago, Fumbler said:

Perhaps the logo on the jacket should be CGC's new tagline?

[silverweb]

this has been an interesting and entertaining thread.  I wish the OP would put up some pics!

Edited November 22, 2020 by silverweb

[Morganmi]

1 hour ago, Hollywood1892 said:

I've never bought something I've spent thousands of dollars on because I liked it, I spent the money because I hope to garner a return on it. Threads like these are designed to "pump fear" into the heart of the collector. They aren't a warning, they aren't beneficial to the site. They are completely worthless threads!

Actually I learned a lot from this thread. Besides learning what hi res scans can reveal, I think I've realized that I'd rather buy a dozen slightly flawed but beautiful 8.0 books over 1 9.8 book at this time in my collecting.

Since the original OP hasn't posted a picture his declaration has no merit as of yet, and the book I posted was pretty much proven by other posters to be graded correctly so this thread was very educational to me at least. Now I hopefully have a better eye while looking through my collection and can start sending in those potential high grade books to sell to those that like that sort of thing, so I can buy even more awesome 8.0's.

[astrometric]

2 hours ago, mattn792 said:

This is the greatest song ever.

Impeccable taste in music, you have. I'll never forget the day, where I was, and what I was doing when I first heard this song. I had such a visceral reaction that I wanted to immediately take my entire 60/70s rock collection catalog of original LPs, my master-piece run of Bach, Mozart, Schubert, Beethoven, Chopin and just completely throw everything straight into the garbage. No creation will ever be replicated as such.  

[kav]

9 hours ago, Hollywood1892 said:

legally able to call yourself the Certified Guaranty Company if you really aren't guaranteeing anything?

Guaranty does not mean guarantee.

[kav]

@Hollywood1892
 

Guarantee, the broader and more common term, is both a verb and a noun. The narrower term, guaranty, today appears mostly in banking and other financial contexts; it seldom appears in nonlegal writing.

Guarantee, vb. 1. To assure that a promise will be kept {the coach guaranteed that every boy on the team would play at least one inning}. 2. To agree to answer for another’s unpaid debt or other unfulfilled obligation {the father guaranteed his son’s car loan}. 3. To state with confidence {I guarantee that our client will be pleased with the settlement offer}.

Guarantee, n. The promise that an act will be carried out or a condition will be fulfilled {I will give you a written guarantee that the brief will be filed on time}.
 

Guaranty, n. The promise to pay the debt or fulfill the obligation of another if that person fails to do so {the father signed a guaranty for his son’s car loan}.

Guaranty formerly functioned also as a verb—a variant of guarantee—but that form is now obsolete. Guaranty should now be used only in its modern legal sense, as a noun.

 

Guarantor, n. 1. One who makes a guaranty {the father was the guarantor on his son’s loan}. 2. One who guarantees {the company prides itself as a guarantor of outstanding customer service}.

You may assume that if a guarantor is one who guarantees, then the person receiving that promise must be the guarantee, in the pattern of other such correlative pairs as lessor–lessee and offeror–offeree. And you’d be right. But historically, guarantee was also used as a synonym of guarantor, further muddying the waters surrounding this word. Conceivably, under those conditions, a guarantee [the person promising] could guarantee [promise] a 

product to the guarantee [person to whom the promise is made], who would then rely on that guarantee [the promise]. (Try enforcing that contract in court.)

The best way to avoid this sort of incomprehensible gibberish is to use guaranteein its noun sense to refer only to the promise made, never to the parties involved. And since this leaves guarantor without a passive correlative, instead call the parties by their names (Richards and Smith), which are always clear in the hands of a competent writer. Such -ee / -or pairs are too easily conflated anyway.
https://abovethelaw.com/career-files/lawprose-lesson-121-whats-the-difference-between-guarantee-and-guaranty/