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Batman 1 CGC 9.4!!!!
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851 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Aman619 said:

‘in this comics world we live in, where most play the game, seems fair that each copy be allowed to compete at its highest level. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Only they get to die all the way to the bank. Ka Ching.   I’m just saying.

Yet, we look with utter disdain at those who used to conduct these nefarious practices in their supposedly darkened basements back in what Borock called the bad bad old days of the Wild Wild West.  hm  (tsk)

Instead, nowadays, we bowed down in front of them and kiss their feet while we throw money their way just so they can maximize the potential of our books in every way imaginable as long as it is not detectable and we can hopefully foist them onto an unsuspecting marketplace without any disclosure at all.  :devil:  :flipbait: :(

Edited by lou_fine
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18 hours ago, Dr. Love said:

I understand Steve Eichenbaum is willing to discuss this, waiting on your call.

And as much as I would like the transparency,  I'd settle for something almost as elusive...Mitch, a pic of one comic you own. Just one.  Any one. It's been 10 years, tease doesnt begin to describe you! :baiting:

Yeah, OK. Good luck with that. He won't even respond to this, never does. He will remain a mystery forever , "Mannup"  he will not.

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51 minutes ago, fishbone said:

Yeah, OK. Good luck with that. He won't even respond to this, never does. He will remain a mystery forever , "Mannup"  he will not.

No mystery here...if you had read some of my early posts, I  am still the collector I was back in the early 60's/70's and we never showed out hand and I mean never. Early on if a dealer or other collector knew you needed the book, the price was double, second early on a number of great collections were stolen and of course none of that has been discussed here on the board it has been lost to the tears of the many collectors of the past...look into the SF comic books which Nick bought...he came to the Berkley comic convention in ...1972 or 3 showed off the big stack of timely's he had just paid for $1 a piece for and they were amazing condition wise..I saw the entire stack, as did others..where did showing off get him?..stolen thats where..Hello. Old school and I am proud of that collectors had a code...of conduct....make that survival...besides the whole world laughing and being against us and calling us "dorks" we prevailed to a point in 2020 that nobody back then would believe. Like it or not the creation of the CGC will forever go down in history keeping GA/SA comic book collecting relevant forever. Your version of comic book collecting and mine are polar opposites..yes I can adapt, slowly but you have to lived it..been there...the excitement...not for $$$ but for the quest and finding and reading GA material which we thought had been lost forever. It was and will ever be to me all about the GA comic book itself.

 I cannot tell you how many times everybody spoke about the END or doom, or that prices have peaked, there was a man by the name of Bruce Hamilton..he helped create the CGC and later became disenchanted with it and he had the biggest safe that I had ever seen for his collectables...he was a pioneer collector who also lived by the early collectors code of slience. Men of honor...yes, there was less money on the table back then...still it was who you were that counted back then, not what you owned.

Edited by Mmehdy
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thats right, scans are all affected by the setting at the time they are made, and if corrected, by the settings on the monitors used when correcting them.  These scans are an accurate representation of the colors on a Batman 1 scanned from the comics and not through the CGC case.  The Heritage reds are too dark, they are actuallymore reddish orange, but the other colors are pretty accurate.  Batman's cape is not as black as you ended up in your fixed scans.  heres some images:

 

Screen Shot 2020-11-27 at 3.25.28 PM.png

Screen Shot 2020-11-27 at 3.25.12 PM.png

Screen Shot 2020-11-27 at 3.25.01 PM.png

Screen Shot 2020-11-27 at 3.24.47 PM.png

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4 hours ago, Mmehdy said:

No mystery here...if you had read some of my early posts, I  am still the collector I was back in the early 60's/70's and we never showed out hand and I mean never. Early on if a dealer or other collector knew you needed the book, the price was double, second early on a number of great collections were stolen and of course none of that has been discussed here on the board it has been lost to the tears of the many collectors of the past...look into the SF comic books which Nick bought...he came to the Berkley comic convention in ...1972 or 3 showed off the big stack of timely's he had just paid for $1 a piece for and they were amazing condition wise..I saw the entire stack, as did others..where did showing off get him?..stolen thats where..Hello. Old school and I am proud of that collectors had a code...of conduct....make that survival...besides the whole world laughing and being against us and calling us "dorks" we prevailed to a point in 2020 that nobody back then would believe. Like it or not the creation of the CGC will forever go down in history keeping GA/SA comic book collecting relevant forever. Your version of comic book collecting and mine are polar opposites..yes I can adapt, slowly but you have to lived it..been there...the excitement...not for $$$ but for the quest and finding and reading GA material which we thought had been lost forever. It was and will ever be to me all about the GA comic book itself.

 I cannot tell you how many times everybody spoke about the END or doom, or that prices have peaked, there was a man by the name of Bruce Hamilton..he helped create the CGC and later became disenchanted with it and he had the biggest safe that I had ever seen for his collectables...he was a pioneer collector who also lived by the early collectors code of slience. Men of honor...yes, there was less money on the table back then...still it was who you were that counted back then, not what you owned.

awesome response Mitch, and thank you. You are right, I cannot appreciate what it was like to be a collector way back then - much different than now, than ten years ago, even twenty years ago.

but .... I still think you should post a book or two !! :baiting: ...... ok, i am kidding. You do what is best for you, but I will keep reading your posts and advice :headbang:

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On 11/26/2020 at 5:59 PM, lou_fine said:

Why, kind Sir..............................................ask and ye shall receive:  :bigsmile:

Action Comics 1 Sells For $1800! – Golden Apple Comics

 

Well, okay.......................................if not that oldie moldy picture, then how about this one here with his very own comic book cover appearance:  lol

A picture is worth 1000 words - Golden Age Comic Books - CGC Comic Book  Collectors Chat Boards

 

4 hours ago, Mmehdy said:

we never showed out hand and I mean never.

Perhaps exceptions were made to get in the newspaper?  Just messing.  Lol. Still have the same smile btw even if time has tamed the cowlick some. 

Edited by ThothAmon
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18 hours ago, MasterChief said:

I tend to agree. The Heritage archives are so littered with before and after images of apparent comic book manipulation it's mindboggling. I have long suspected since the early days that maintaining an online archive of past auctions is a litigation risk measure. Jim Halperin himself seemingly alluded to a potential legal argument in his response to the 2005 Forbes Magazine about his business practices:

"As far as I know, Heritage is also the only auction company that maintains a free, fully searchable Past Auction Archive, with photography. Obviously, with hundreds of thousands of past coin sales, and message boards on the PCGS and NGC sites, it is no great challenge to find coins from past auctions that have subsequently been upgraded and reconsigned, even if such items comprise a very small percentage of the total. If Heritage were trying to do anything sneaky, why would we provide all the evidence in such an easy-to-research form?"

What Forbes Didn't Tell You: https://www.ha.com/c/ref/halperin.zx?type=surl-forbes#1foot

Comicconnect also has a large, accessible past catalogue of all their sales with front/back photos. Seems like they’re on par with Heritage unless I’m missing something.

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On 11/25/2020 at 6:22 PM, Mmehdy said:

Question: on a mega key... what is the record grade jump from initial CGC  to final upgraded grade? Anyone know?

On 11/26/2020 at 12:59 PM, lou_fine said:

Well, okay.......................................if not that oldie moldy picture, then how about this one here with his very own comic book cover appearance:  lol

A picture is worth 1000 words - Golden Age Comic Books - CGC Comic Book  Collectors Chat Boards

 

Seems you're enamored with Daredevil Comics #1. I was too some years ago. Really wanted a nice copy for the collection. That's until I looked under the hood and discovered that many books, including numerous current top-tier 9.0 and above specimens, have been doctored. The extracurricular work on the lower-grade books has bastardized the high-grade population pool thereby diluting the relative value of unique copies. One could argue that the value of high-grade books would be even higher today if their scarcity had not been diluted by underhanded practices.

For example, the Vancouver copy, which currently sits alone as the single best copy at 9.6, is in reality a manipulated 8.0. The first recorded sale of the 8.0 copy was by Hakes Collectables in 2007. It reappeared with a five-banger grade increase topping the census when Heritage "featured" it for auction in 2014.

 

DDBH-1_8-0_FRONT_VANCOUVER-1.jpg.68e21d4d2aa289f429ada3b073de2a2f.jpg DBH-1_9-6_FRONT_VANCOUVER-1.jpg.3b6a88b8da16fa6984db7205d26f9908.jpg

 

References
Heritage Auctions: Daredevil Comics #1 Daredevil Battles Hitler - Vancouver pedigree (Lev Gleason, 1941) CGC NM+ 9.6 

Hank's Collectables:

DBH-1_8-0_Hakes-Auction.thumb.png.ef3bccf70d016b96e90bd8dc93601986.png

Edited by MasterChief
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49 minutes ago, MasterChief said:

 

 

Seems you're enamored with Daredevil Comics #1. I was too some years ago. Really wanted a nice copy for the collection. That's until I looked under the hood and discovered that many books, including numerous current top-tier 9.0 and above specimens, have been doctored. The extracurricular work on the lower-grade books has bastardized the high-grade population pool thereby diluting the relative value of unique copies. One could argue that the value of high-grade books would be even higher today if their scarcity had not been diluted by underhanded practices.

For example, the Vancouver copy, which currently sits alone as the single best copy at 9.6, is in reality a manipulated 8.0. The first recorded sale of the 8.0 copy was by Hakes Collectables in 2007. It reappeared with a five-banger grade increase topping the census when Heritage "featured" it for auction in 2014.

 

DDBH-1_8-0_FRONT_VANCOUVER-1.jpg.68e21d4d2aa289f429ada3b073de2a2f.jpg DBH-1_9-6_FRONT_VANCOUVER-1.jpg.3b6a88b8da16fa6984db7205d26f9908.jpg

 

References
Heritage Auctions: Daredevil Comics #1 Daredevil Battles Hitler - Vancouver pedigree (Lev Gleason, 1941) CGC NM+ 9.6 

Hank's Collectables:

DBH-1_8-0_Hakes-Auction.thumb.png.ef3bccf70d016b96e90bd8dc93601986.png

Looking at the book, and I mean it’s only the front cover I can go by, but I’d say it seems more in line that it was originally under graded then later on over graded. Also a press, maybe a clean clearly helped. So the eventual 9.6 doesn’t bother me as much I guess personally, unless there’s other obvious defects I’m missing, a small dust shadow on the back, etc... No doubt it’s crazy how these transformations can happen though! I was soo sad when I found out the Action 1 white page 9.0 was an upgrade and not a new to market copy lol.

Edited by LDarkseid1
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3 hours ago, LDarkseid1 said:

Looking at the book, and I mean it’s only the front cover I can go by, but I’d say it seems more in line that it was originally under graded then later on over graded. Also a press, maybe a clean clearly helped. So the eventual 9.6 doesn’t bother me as much I guess personally, unless there’s other obvious defects I’m missing, a small dust shadow on the back, etc... No doubt it’s crazy how these transformations can happen though! I was soo sad when I found out the Action 1 white page 9.0 was an upgrade and not a new to market copy lol.

My apologies. I should have posted the back cover for examination purposes. It's below along with my take... 

In my approximation the Vancouver copy was graded accurately as an 8.0.

The lower left corner of the front cover displays a rather significant corner blunt. So much so the scanner created a reflective pool of what appears to be white light upon the concave surface area of the compression fold.

Furthermore, the back cover exhibited a fair amount of soiling in the white perimeter area surrounding the Daredevil advertisement. Couple that with the creases revealed along the lower spine, which the scanner emphasized as light passed over the subject area, and the blunting apparent on the front cover, and you have a solid very fine specimen.

DDBH-1_8-0_BACK_VANCOUVER-1.jpg.62dfca110a08dd8bfd74015644d18a11.jpg DBH-1_9-6_BACK_VANCOUVER.thumb.jpg.848ce753fc68b8507848eaa29c5c20e1.jpg

Edited by MasterChief
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5 hours ago, MasterChief said:

That's until I looked under the hood and discovered that many books, including numerous current top-tier 9.0 and above specimens, have been doctored. The extracurricular work on the lower-grade books has bastardized the high-grade population pool thereby diluting the relative value of unique copies. 

This.

5 hours ago, MasterChief said:

One could argue that the value of high-grade books would be even higher today if their scarcity had not been diluted by underhanded practices.

One of the odd things about our hobby is that the supply axis doesn't seem to be nearly as important as the demand axis.

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