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172 posts in this topic

On 12/22/2020 at 12:35 PM, fishbone said:

No way the statement about wagner being more well-known than superman and batman is correct - in fact it is so far the opposite, by a factor of 1000000 !!

Yah, I'm trying to keep an open mind, but I'm absolutely confused by someone claiming that more people have heard of Wagner than Superman.  

 

Everyone's heard of superman.  My mom, my nephew, random people on the street.  He's been in pop culture every decade since the 30's.  Wagner?  Compared to Superman?  Just.....blows my mind.  I could be wrong, but I really doubt it lol.

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3 hours ago, waaaghboss said:

Yah, I'm trying to keep an open mind, but I'm absolutely confused by someone claiming that more people have heard of Wagner than Superman.  

 

Everyone's heard of superman.  My mom, my nephew, random people on the street.  He's been in pop culture every decade since the 30's.  Wagner?  Compared to Superman?  Just.....blows my mind.  I could be wrong, but I really doubt it lol.

Google search data agrees with you. While Superman's popularity has softened in recent years (without a dedicated film since 2013), he is searched for way more than Honus Wagner. I also added Bryce Harper for a contemporary comparison. 

Screenshot_20201224-061304~2.png

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4 hours ago, Northwest said:

Google search data agrees with you. While Superman's popularity has softened in recent years (without a dedicated film since 2013), he is searched for way more than Honus Wagner. I also added Bryce Harper for a contemporary comparison. 

Screenshot_20201224-061304~2.png

This is a great visual.  Can you add The Batman to this graph ? 

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5 minutes ago, Northwest said:

Batman is in green below, soaring above the others. 

Screenshot_20201224-110849~2.png

That’s awesome Northwest. Thank you !  Curious if any other heroes soar above The Bats ?  Maybe an Avenger , Wolverine or Spider Man during peak movie time ?  Thanks again !!!

Edited by Chicago Boy
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10 minutes ago, Chicago Boy said:

That’s awesome Northwest. Thank you !  Curious if any other heroes soar above The Bats ?  Maybe an Avenger during peak movie time ?  Thanks again !!!

Avengers and Spiderman did temporarily surpass during movie release windows, but that trends normalizes with Batman in the top spot over a longer time horizon. Also yes I realize Spider-Man is proper, people just search the unhyphenated version more

 

Screenshot_20201224-112155~2.png

Edited by Northwest
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16 minutes ago, Northwest said:

Avengers and Spiderman did temporarily surpass during movie release windows, but that trends normalizes with Batman in the top spot over a longer time horizon. Also yes I realize Spider-Man is proper, people just search the unhyphenated version more

 

Screenshot_20201224-112155~2.png

Great stuff !  Can’t imagine then anyone garnering more interest than The Bat 🦇 over a longer period of time based on your graph.  

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1 hour ago, Aman619 said:

But is graphing Google searches really the correct metric to answer which of these if the most well known?  How about their Q scores? Or whatever is out there that measures familiarity? 

It's a fun diversion. 

Honest question, do you honestly think more people alive today in the US would recognize Wagner over Superman?

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2 hours ago, Aman619 said:

But is graphing Google searches really the correct metric to answer which of these if the most well known?  How about their Q scores? Or whatever is out there that measures familiarity? 

I thought Q scores measured likability through popularity ??

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4 hours ago, Aman619 said:

But is graphing Google searches really the correct metric to answer which of these if the most well known?  How about their Q scores? Or whatever is out there that measures familiarity? 

One would need a custom research study to truly answer the question. "Q scores" measure affinity, not recall or familiarity.  Google search data serves as a directional proxy, and the data on Honus Wagner suggests that, outside of baseball fans and sports collectors, he may not be that well known. Wagner plays a significant role in baseball history, so this is simply an observation. 

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The vast majority of the American population doesn't know who Honus Wagner is, let alone the rest of the world.  Batman and Superman are well recognized around the globe.

But whether a few billion people don't know Wager but do know Batman/Superman is irrelevant if none of them can afford a T206.  The number of people who know who Francis Bacon is is also tiny compared to the number of people who know Batman/Superman, but no Batman or Superman-related item will ever come close to what Bacon's paintings sell for.

The only opinions that matter are those who can afford a T206 or a top copy of Action 1 or Detective 27, and I would say that more people in that category are interested in owning a T206 than an Action 1/Tec 27.  

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1 hour ago, tth2 said:

The vast majority of the American population doesn't know who Honus Wagner is, let alone the rest of the world.  Batman and Superman are well recognized around the globe.

But whether a few billion people don't know Wager but do know Batman/Superman is irrelevant if none of them can afford a T206.  The number of people who know who Francis Bacon is is also tiny compared to the number of people who know Batman/Superman, but no Batman or Superman-related item will ever come close to what Bacon's paintings sell for.

The only opinions that matter are those who can afford a T206 or a top copy of Action 1 or Detective 27, and I would say that more people in that category are interested in owning a T206 than an Action 1/Tec 27.  

well, yeah and theres that too.  Who cares how many people "know" any of these characters if we are talking about the potential for increased values?  Growing a buyer out of the billions who have heard of Superman is a ridiculously low percentage game.  So it can be argued that of the millionaire/billionaire class, T206 is probably still a more respected investment vehicle.  But It sure feels like Tec27 and Action 1 are catching up, and, our BEST copies have never and will never (?) be tested in the marketplace..  How about we look at how many million$-plus sales of comics and cards to date to try to judge the "willing and able pool" of buyers for each, comics and cards.  And delete the known cases of one person who has made multiple purchases (like Harari) 

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3 hours ago, tth2 said:

The vast majority of the American population doesn't know who Honus Wagner is, let alone the rest of the world.  Batman and Superman are well recognized around the globe.

But whether a few billion people don't know Wager but do know Batman/Superman is irrelevant if none of them can afford a T206.  The number of people who know who Francis Bacon is is also tiny compared to the number of people who know Batman/Superman, but no Batman or Superman-related item will ever come close to what Bacon's paintings sell for.

The only opinions that matter are those who can afford a T206 or a top copy of Action 1 or Detective 27, and I would say that more people in that category are interested in owning a T206 than an Action 1/Tec 27.  

The fine art comparison would require a different reference. Frazetta OA auctions have indeed opened people's eyes to potential values for comic art. In both cases original art is unique, one of a kind. It is true that prices in the art market have their own dynamics independent of broader cultural awareness. 

With respect to the T206 to Action 1 comparison, buyers at these levels are motivated by many factors including willingness to pay, potential future returns, perceived value and personal affinity. I actually do not think we can strictly compare the markets as they are unique (with some potential commonalities). Baseball is considered America's past time driving interest in Americana collectors; with the growing importance of comics driving culture (via cinema), we are seeing growing appreciation for comics' role as origin stories.    We have seen many recent 7-figure sales in both comic and card markets, which suggests increasingly select investors may view coveted vintage items in each as distinct, credible alternative asset classes. 

Edited by Northwest
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10 hours ago, Aman619 said:

So it can be argued that of the millionaire/billionaire class, T206 is probably still a more respected investment vehicle.  But It sure feels like Tec27 and Action 1 are catching up, and, our BEST copies have never and will never (?) be tested in the marketplace..  How about we look at how many million$-plus sales of comics and cards to date to try to judge the "willing and able pool" of buyers for each, comics and cards.  And delete the known cases of one person who has made multiple purchases (like Harari) 

Good point. 

Let us know the results after you've crunched the numbers!  

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8 hours ago, Northwest said:

The fine art comparison would require a different reference. Frazetta OA auctions have indeed opened people's eyes to potential values for comic art. In both cases original art is unique, one of a kind. It is true that prices in the art market have their own dynamics independent of broader cultural awareness.

This is true, but the point still holds.  There might be a whole lot more trailer park residents who know Thomas Kinkade than Francis Bacon, but they're still irrelevant when it comes to establishing the market value of their works. 

9 hours ago, Northwest said:

With respect to the T206 to Action 1 comparison, buyers at these levels are motivated by many factors including willingness to pay, potential future returns, perceived value and personal affinity. I actually do not think we can strictly compare the markets as they are unique (with some potential commonalities). Baseball is considered America's past time driving interest in Americana collectors; with the growing importance of comics driving culture (via cinema), we are seeing growing appreciation for comics' role as origin stories.    We have seen many recent 7-figure sales in both comic and card markets, which suggests increasingly select investors may view coveted vintage items in each as distinct, credible alternative asset classes. 

Agreed.  But I still think a major factor is the "show off" appeal.  Would showing off a T206 elicit more genuine oohs and aahs from one's fellow centimillionaires and billionaires or an Action 1/Tec 27?  This is why I think instruments will continue to be much more valuable than either category, because showing off Eric Clapton's or Eddie Van Halen's guitar will always considered to be more cool and impressive than any sports card or comic.  

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1 hour ago, tth2 said:

Agreed.  But I still think a major factor is the "show off" appeal.  Would showing off a T206 elicit more genuine oohs and aahs from one's fellow centimillionaires and billionaires or an Action 1/Tec 27?  This is why I think instruments will continue to be much more valuable than either category, because showing off Eric Clapton's or Eddie Van Halen's guitar will always considered to be more cool and impressive than any sports card or comic.  

This^

As stated, it doesn't really matter who the man in the street is more familiar with, or who has more google searches - it matters what the man with the money thinks is cool and is willing to spend the money on. I used to think that deceased stars were better than living ones so you didn't have to worry about drugs ruining their reputation or careers, but with rock stars that only enhances the legend.

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What matters investment wise in collectibles commodities is whatever gets enough media coverage to keep the public's attention ergo collector's bragging rights interest.

Alas, most collectibles investment tends to be insular and aspirational.

Sorry, I've imbibed too much ale tonight, so you're getting honesty instead of lame attempts at repartee.  :sorry:

:tink:

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