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BeatleBlueCat DEFRAUDING BUYERS with Massive SHILL BIDDING and Same old "Buy CGC graded 7.5, crack and sell as raw "NM" scam
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1,200 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

A surprise guest! 

Please grade my GSX 1, - Hey buddy, can you spare a grade? - CGC Comic Book Collectors Chat Boards (cgccomics.com) 

This is BeatleBlueCat. 

Here's what he did, as I was expecting (but didn't wantto mention before he did)

This is BBCs forum ID. He listed on of his GSXM 1s and lowballed the grade, with the plan to win it (from himself, and submit it here in the please grade my comic section. He made no mention of origins or grade. Since it is a nice book, probably a cracked out CGC 8.0 or 8.5 (I will look for that later) everyone commented on what a beaut it is. Before anyone had the chance to ask where he got it, and he mentioned BBC a raw 7.5, so we can say how wrong we are about BBC, I discovered the deception. 

he won the book from himself, using his typical 51 feedback shill with 100% bid activity for BBC, which was the purpose of his undergrading the book so he could post it here. 

Current sales thread in G/S/B...

 

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OK I am surprised that somehow I have been drug into this mess and what seems to be slander by the works of 

@James J Johnson...I dont even know who "Michael" is and why I've been associated to him. My name is Daniel.

@Callaway29 knows this...im suprised he jumped on this band wagon instead of saying that I am not this random person.

For reference not that I have to justify myself...

I bought that GSX1 off ebay from Beatlebluecat...I was actually the second bidder. I initially lost the book, then the next day I got "second chance offer" from the seller. I accepted the offer and purchased the book. I a simple collector that purchases most of my books on time payments since Im just a civil servant realized I needed to raise some funds to pay the book off. Ergo I started a sales thread. My references speak for themselves. I have nothing to hide. 

After reading part of this thread and checking some of the links james posted on my "please grade my GSX" It seems I am the only one who loses twice.

1) paying more to shill bidding, pump and dump

2) slander and negative connotation to my board person

Some of yall should be ashamed of yourselves...As a teacher/coach I see this happen too many times to our kids today. One person uses technology or social media to rile up people and start a mob mentality over false information...just wouldnt expect this from grown men in a comic collecting forum.

All this because a guy wanted to upgrade his raw GSX 1 and was curious to see how it fared vs his old copy..smh

PS - if any of you think Im still faking, ask @jimjum12, the man has seen numerous checks, letters, bank account, etc..he can vouch who I am who I am and not who you imply me to be 

 

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58 minutes ago, 956Ref said:

OK I am surprised that somehow I have been drug into this mess and what seems to be slander by the works of 

@James J Johnson...I dont even know who "Michael" is and why I've been associated to him. My name is Daniel.

@Callaway29 knows this...im suprised he jumped on this band wagon instead of saying that I am not this random person.

For reference not that I have to justify myself...

I bought that GSX1 off ebay from Beatlebluecat...I was actually the second bidder. I initially lost the book, then the next day I got "second chance offer" from the seller. I accepted the offer and purchased the book. I a simple collector that purchases most of my books on time payments since Im just a civil servant realized I needed to raise some funds to pay the book off. Ergo I started a sales thread. My references speak for themselves. I have nothing to hide. 

After reading part of this thread and checking some of the links james posted on my "please grade my GSX" It seems I am the only one who loses twice.

1) paying more to shill bidding, pump and dump

2) slander and negative connotation to my board person

Some of yall should be ashamed of yourselves...As a teacher/coach I see this happen too many times to our kids today. One person uses technology or social media to rile up people and start a mob mentality over false information...just wouldnt expect this from grown men in a comic collecting forum.

All this because a guy wanted to upgrade his raw GSX 1 and was curious to see how it fared vs his old copy..smh

PS - if any of you think Im still faking, ask @jimjum12, the man has seen numerous checks, letters, bank account, etc..he can vouch who I am who I am and not who you imply me to be 

 

So you're the underbidder, one bid under his shill (51 feedback) over-bid? The 236 feedback ebay member? 

Edited by James J Johnson
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956ref is not beatlebluecat.  I know Daniel, he's legit, a friend of mine.  We actually talked about that GSX1 when it was up for auction cuz he's been looking for a copy, we both thought it looked 8.0 range.

I was actually unaware of the shadiness of beatlebluecat until Daniel pointed me toward this thread, which is now apparently accusing him of being this guy lol.

956ref is a cool dude and an honorable community member.

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Just now, DS Comics said:

956ref is not beatlebluecat.  I know Daniel, he's legit, a friend of mine.  We actually talked about that GSX1 when it was up for auction cuz he's been looking for a copy, we both thought it looked 8.0 range.

I was actually unaware of the shadiness of beatlebluecat until Daniel pointed me toward this thread, which is now apparently accusing him of being this guy lol.

956ref is a cool dude and an honorable community member.

I see that. When you study the automatic bid profile, the way the shilling went, with the shill bid (51) "winning" the book made it appear that the book never changed hands (6 shill bids, $1850 and up). That he won it from himself, which he did, for the purpose of bolstering confidence in the grades of his books. But that isn't the case. BBC's shill won but the book sold to the underbidder. We were under the impression that second hand sales were the byproduct of retractions due to their incredible frequency. But he's obviously also using second chance offers to rig the results as well. 

 

eBay Item Bid History

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Just now, DS Comics said:

Well do some f'ing due diligence next time before accusing someone like that.

Now how on earth would I do that unless I contacted every anonymized bidder on that bidder's list and asked them if they "won" it with a second chance offer? And what are the chances that if it was BBC, that he simply wouldn't respond or lie? 

Look at the bidding. My interpretation was sound. The fact that it was shilled and then Ref received a second chance offer is unknown. Between the seller and the underbidder alone if the winner is the shill. If the bidding shows that BBC won his own book, whomever shows up with images of it uncommon to the listing a week or two later is the winner, right? 

BBC's shill practices made Ref the victim in this case. My question is, was the second chance offer $2100 or did Ref have to pay his secondary bid,$2300 and change, because he had two bids stacked that BBC beat? 

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1 minute ago, James J Johnson said:

Now how on earth would I do that unless I contacted every anonymized bidder on that bidder's list and asked them if they "won" it with a second chance offer? And what are the chances that if it was BBC, that he simply wouldn't respond or lie? 

Look at the bidding. My interpretation was sound. The fact that it was shilled and then Ref received a second chance offer is unknown. Between the seller and the underbidder alone if the winner is the shill. If the bidding shows that BBC won his own book, whomever shows up with images of it uncommon to the listing a week or two later is the winner, right? 

BBC's shill practices made Ref the victim in this case. My question is, was the second chance offer $2100 or did Ref have to pay his secondary bid,$2300 and change, because he had two bids stacked that BBC beat? 

There's lots of ways to inquire or research something.  But you toss out a very serious accusation which is immediately met with a post of Daniel's action on the boards, his sales posts, etc, and then a question about nominating him for the HOS.

And people hitting him up privately now telling him he needs to prove he's innocent.

It's like a 1920's lynchmob up in here sometimes. 🤷‍♂️

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47 minutes ago, DS Comics said:

There's lots of ways to inquire or research something.  But you toss out a very serious accusation which is immediately met with a post of Daniel's action on the boards, his sales posts, etc, and then a question about nominating him for the HOS.

And people hitting him up privately now telling him he needs to prove he's innocent.

It's like a 1920's lynchmob up in here sometimes. 🤷‍♂️

BTW, BBC bought this as a CGC 6.5, Nov 5th, you're welcome. :gossip:   

When he bought it, he probably didn't notice the imperfection in the E and N of the title and was thinking "resell raw at NM-" because of the bending of those rubs with that glare in the S. It all can easily be mistaken in this image for glare like the S as that streak of glare looks like it continues in a semi-circle down and into the E and N where the actual rub is. So he settled for listing as VF-, only a 2 tik push to recoup his money and put it into something else that he could push more of the overgrading envelope with.

 

GSX1aaa.jpg

Edited by James J Johnson
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39 minutes ago, DS Comics said:

There's lots of ways to inquire or research something.  But you toss out a very serious accusation which is immediately met with a post of Daniel's action on the boards, his sales posts, etc, and then a question about nominating him for the HOS.

And people hitting him up privately now telling him he needs to prove he's innocent.

It's like a 1920's lynchmob up in here sometimes. 🤷‍♂️

Not a second chance offer, which in this case was circumstantial evidence, which is sometimes presented in a case and then thrown out if disproved, as we did. 

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4 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

Not a second chance offer, which in this case was circumstantial evidence, which is sometimes presented in a case and then thrown out if disproved, as we did. 

Well I'm glad the case against Daniel appears to have been dismissed. 👍

I'm just suggesting that statements like "This is BeatleBlueCat" and "This is BBC's forum ID" are unequivocal statements of guilt that you made before having all the facts.

Seems resolved now in any event.  Now to go find some books on ebay auctions that are not shill bid sellers, which is an almost impossible task these days lol.

I have actually won books from this beatlecat fellow in the past and luckily they all came back from cgc right on the money.  in retrospect, it appears i may have merely dodged the landmines and gotten lucky.

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34 minutes ago, DS Comics said:

I have actually won books from this beatlecat fellow in the past and luckily they all came back from cgc right on the money.  in retrospect, it appears i may have merely dodged the landmines and gotten lucky.

No matter what proof you find, or how many people verify something, there is always someone to say "but I bought from him and it was fine."  Happens with kellyssuperheroes as well.  Well, sure.  They don't have to defraud 100% of the time.  But I'd say any percentage over 0 is cause for shame, yes?

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9 minutes ago, Poekaymon said:

No matter what proof you find, or how many people verify something, there is always someone to say "but I bought from him and it was fine."  Happens with kellyssuperheroes as well.  Well, sure.  They don't have to defraud 100% of the time.  But I'd say any percentage over 0 is cause for shame, yes?

100% correct!  i will make a point to never buy from him again.  just saying i got lucky when i bought before cuz i had no idea he was a scammer. 👍 and yeah i dont ever buy off kellyssuperheroes.

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1 hour ago, DS Comics said:

I have actually won books from this beatlecat fellow in the past and luckily they all came back from cgc right on the money.  in retrospect, it appears i may have merely dodged the landmines and gotten lucky.

Which books did you buy from BBC that graded at CGC right on the money? Are you able to please share that info with us? Maybe a few images of them now CGC graded? Love to see them. 

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11 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

Which books did you buy from BBC that graded at CGC right on the money? Are you able to please share that info with us? Maybe a few images of them now CGC graded? Love to see them. 

Last one was an ASM 300 he had at nm and it came back 9.4.  nothing recent.  no i dont have pics.

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20 minutes ago, DS Comics said:

Last one was an ASM 300 he had at nm and it came back 9.4.  nothing recent.  no i dont have pics.

Can you take a pic? Shouldn't  be much trouble to humor a fellow boardie. Can you take a pic of it in the CGC 9.4 holder if you still have it? I have all the before pics from all of his $500 and up listings. Be interesting to match up the raw you bought with the same CGC result. What was the date of your win? You must still have that info, no? 

Any other wins you can remember that graded the same at CGC? 

So far, the majority of this thread features books that were bought raw from BBC at CGC grades well below the BBC touted grades. I think that in all fairness, it would behoove us to examine BBC raw listings that returned from CGC "right on the money", so I ask for that reason since all of your raw purchases were graded the same by CGC. Only fair to BBC to flip the coin and see what's on the other side. . 

Edited by James J Johnson
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10 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

Can you take a pic? Shouldn't  be much trouble to humor a fellow boardie. Can you take a pic of it in the CGC 9.4 holder if you still have it? I have all the before pics from all of his $500 and up listings. Be interesting to match up the raw you bought with the same CGC result. What was the date of your win? You must still have that info, no? 

Any other wins you can remember that graded the same at CGC? 

So far, the majority of this thread features books that were bought raw from BBC at CGC grades well below the BBC touted grades. I think that in all fairness, it would behoove us to examine BBC raw listings that returned from CGC "right on the money", so I ask for that reason since all of your raw purchases were graded the same by CGC. Only fair to BBC to flip the coin and see what's on the other side. . 

i dont have it anymore, i sold it well over a year ago.  i havent purchased anything recent off him.  i buy and sell a fair number of books and the few i got off him are all long gone.  i recall thinking at one point that his auctions were really too popular to score a deal on so i stopped specifically watching his stuff.

i dont have dates or any specific info.  just my anecdotal memories is all i can offer. 🤷‍♂️

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12 minutes ago, DS Comics said:

i dont have it anymore, i sold it well over a year ago.  i havent purchased anything recent off him.  i buy and sell a fair number of books and the few i got off him are all long gone.  i recall thinking at one point that his auctions were really too popular to score a deal on so i stopped specifically watching his stuff.

i dont have dates or any specific info.  just my anecdotal memories is all i can offer. 🤷‍♂️

When it comes to proof, as you stated, it really not that much to offer, is it? It's all just a hazy memory, all tangible evidence you may have of the books that graded the same by CGC. So you do remember that you bought books that graded the same, but beyond the lone AS 300, everything is hazy? You didn't save any purchase or sales records? No notes. No images. No associated emails. No paypal or charge card record. No proof of your claim of uniquely exceptional good fortune, in other words. I understand. Not a surprise. I had suspected the accounting of the results was purely anecdotal..  hm 

 

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3 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

Yep. It's all just a hazy memory, all tangible evidence you may have of the books that graded the same by CGC. So you do remember that you bought books that graded the same, but beyond the lone AS 300, everything is hazy? You didn't save any purchase or sales records? No notes. No images. No associated emails. No proof of your claim of uniquely exceptional good fortune, in other words. I understand. Not a surprise. I had suspected the accounting of the results was purely anecdotal..  hm 

 

I dont need to go dig up any tangible evidence of a few books i onced flipped, because im not trying to prove anything to you, and i couldnt care less whether you believe me or not. im not defending bbc, and i certainly dont need to defend myself to you, jerk.  you suspected it was anecdotal?  i told you it was anecdotal, so take it or leave it, i dont care.  

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13 minutes ago, DS Comics said:

I dont need to go dig up any tangible evidence of a few books i onced flipped, because im not trying to prove anything to you, and i couldnt care less whether you believe me or not. im not defending bbc, and i certainly dont need to defend myself to you, jerk.  you suspected it was anecdotal?  i told you it was anecdotal, so take it or leave it, i dont care.  

Yes. I suspected no proof of the claim "all of your raw purchases graded the same by CGC" would be forthcoming. Why else do you think I asked? 

With your fantastic claim of all of the books you purchased from BBC grading the same at CGC, based on my research into the seller, why do you assume I would ask a question of you that I already didn't know the answer to? Or believe that claim without a shred of proof? Knowing what I know. 

Yes. Your answer is exactly as expected. It simply confirmed what I already knew for all reading the thread. Nothing more, nothing less, jerk as I may be. It's 4 AM and I'm going to go jerk myself a soda and be headed to sleep if you want to catch some shuteye. You won't have to anticipate the next post from me to run defense for awhile. I think we covered it all right here on this page anyway. Just another piece of the puzzle. 

 

Edited by James J Johnson
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