Do you think the value of comics will eventually tank? 1 1

[KCOComics]

It will be interesting to see how the movies impact today's children as they get older. 

I'm one of those 90s kids. Loved comics my entire life, but kids today have 10xs the exposure to comic book characters that I did because of the movies. Will that translate into collecting comics in their 30s, 40s and 50s? No idea! 

I don't think you can compare comics to stamps.  A block buster stamp movie would be ridiculously boring. 

[The Lions Den]

On 12/30/2020 at 3:02 PM, shadroch said:

I would like a hit of whatever you imbibed for the third scenario.

If you're gonna dream, dream BIG!  

[comicginger1789]

I mean, the Marvel movies (and I am using them as the juggernaut, knowing full well that DC and other comics series have been successfully adapted on smaller screens) provide entertainment for everyone. Diehard fans, casual fans, kids. I think the hope is that it will continue. Stories will be adapted for years to come, characters will be used and reused and recast and one-shot films will happen. It could last a looong time and it should because the stories and characters that exist to be used are still the thousands (of good ones anyway). Maybe you are of the belief that just because a story was good does not mean a movie/show needs to be made but hollywood will view otherwise and if comic companies and creators are smart, they will too and continue to produce these. 

The variable I have NO idea about (because my city of 75000 has no LCS, just some guy who somehow sells new releases two weeks later out of his garage....he's great by the way and I love this) is how many "new" fans get into comics specifically. Even if it is to acquire some keys, or key artists or whatever. And when I say new, it does not have to be kids. Comics are not a dirt cheap hobby so finding kids who buy comics is hard...its usually 20-25 years olds who start to have expendable income who seem to be the newcomers. So my question is how many of them do LCS's see? If it is a decent amount, the hobby will sustain. If it is not, well it may be a scenario where it exists but not as strong as it does now. 

I believe the strength we are seeing, and have seen over the past couple years and likely will see for the next decade or so at least, is that most "older" collectors still have their stuff and are still in the hobby. Then, you have the 80's and 90's kids with money now to spend, going back to their childhood where these characters were a big part of cartoons, comics, cards, etc. And finally you have those who WERE in the hobby getting back in because of its relevancy after the crash and burn through the 90s. My fear is the 2000s and up generations....they just dont seem to have that same level of interest in collecting. They seem more likely when they hit 25 to say "oh yeah, Avengers was a great movie from my childhood" and just leave it at that. I hope I am wrong here though. 

Edited January 15, 2021 by comicginger1789

[comicginger1789]

At the end of the day, I have been teaching now for 7 years. And I have met less than 10 students who seemed to have ANY interest in taking their joy of the movies Marvel et al have put out beyond and into comic books specifically. Most kids are like "yeah that Spidey movie was good" then they go back to Tik Tok or whatever. 

Are those 7 or 8 kids per 2000 or so enough to sustain the hobby? My sample size is small keep in mind, although I have taught/interacted with a couple thousand kids in that time period. And a couple of those 7-8 kids were content with trades and digital reading....granted, comics physically are costly, speficially older books, so maybe that interest piques later but it could also not happen at all. Not many seem intrigued that I have physical copies of the stories they have read...for example, when I told the one I had the actual issues where Gwen Stacy dies, there was no glimmer of intrigue. It was more so "Oh yeah I've read that. I more so like insert newer story here". So it may becomes similar to scenario 2 posed by @The Lions Den earlier.

Edited January 15, 2021 by comicginger1789

[comicginger1789]

Maybe we are responsible for sustaining the hobby? I was a fluke as no one introduced me to comics that had prior comic experience. But maybe if we all introduce someone and get someone passionate, to some degree, the hobby will never die. Hence why we should welcome newcomers with legit questions. Remember, we weren't all as knowledgeable as we think we are (and some of us still aren't but we live in a beautiful illusion )

I have yet to find my replacement but I am betting on my offspring. He shows a legit interest at 2. Maybe I'm delusional but I feel like I have time in life to connect with someone and get them into comics. If I have to, I could always walk door to door and say "Hey have you found Immortal Hulk today? I can help you, there is this guy I know selling issues from his garage. They are great, both in terms of stories and art. Our great leader Stan Lee once said..."  (door slams in face)

[ThothAmon]

Yes. 

[shadroch]

As popularity declines, and prices go down, I'd imagine some long time collectors would prop up the prices for awhile. Who here wouldn't buy a AF 15 or GS XMen #1 at 40% off?

In the early 90s, there was a show every weekend on Long Island and dealers had to choose which ones to attend. By 1995, shows were all but extinct.  There were dozens of shops that carried both baseball cards and comics and many of them literally disappeared overnight. I was on a bit of a hiatus from the hobby as my job kept me extremely busy on weekends so I can't really speak to what happened, but in 1990 my friend opened a secondary distributorship and in six months had 400 accounts. For a while it was as if he was printing money, but by 1995 he went bankrupt owing close to a half million dollars.

Edited January 15, 2021 by shadroch

[The Lions Den]

17 minutes ago, comicginger1789 said:

Maybe we are responsible for sustaining the hobby? I was a fluke as no one introduced me to comics that had prior comic experience. But maybe if we all introduce someone and get someone passionate, to some degree, the hobby will never die. Hence why we should welcome newcomers with legit questions. Remember, we weren't all as knowledgeable as we think we are (and some of us still aren't but we live in a beautiful illusion )

I have yet to find my replacement but I am betting on my offspring. He shows a legit interest at 2. Maybe I'm delusional but I feel like I have time in life to connect with someone and get them into comics. If I have to, I could always walk door to door and say "Hey have you found Immortal Hulk today? I can help you, there is this guy I know selling issues from his garage. They are great, both in terms of stories and art. Our great leader Stan Lee once said..."  (door slams in face)

"Excuse me sir, but have you heard the word of STAN today? He can save your soul..." 

[comicginger1789]

28 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

"Excuse me sir, but have you heard the word of STAN today? He can save your soul..." 

Words of Stan include "Excelsior!", "Mighty Marvelites!" and "When I came up with the idea and pitched it to Steve...."

[comicginger1789]

Oh and don't forget "Face front, true believers!"

Jeez comics are starting to feel kind of culty all of a sudden....

[kaejol]

On 12/30/2020 at 11:30 AM, comicginger1789 said:

The market is so wild right now because, and I mean this with no disrespect, but a lot of the "younger" collectors are not the brightest. Same for older collectors who stopped in the 90s but within the last decade have gotten back into comics. They see a movie announcement of some kind, bam, they buy that book. Little thought, just the hope for more money in terms of a sale down the road. These are the people who paid $35-50 for the first time Cap lifted Thor's hammer in Thor whatever issue it was when it happened in the movie. Those books you see alerted to you on whatever app or feature you use as having gone from dollar bin stuff to $15-20 books is ridiculous. I fear that too much of that could hurt the hobby when you have people who, 8 months later try to make a profit of such a book that is no longer worth that at all. Instead, this overpricing drives collectors towards other things and can serve as a deterrent for new collectors. A new collector or future collector upon reminiscing about the movie could be like "hey, that moment in the movie was cool, I want the comic" and find people trying to sell it for a crazy amount which only deters them from buying or getting into the hobby. 

I'm a younger collector and got into collecting in early 2019. I started collecting because of Donny Cates current run on venom (I sadly had to stop for a bit so I haven't been reading lately and have just been playing catch up with physical copies). I personally don't plan to sell my collection, I just buy to keep and later read (I know I could read digitally but that's just less fun).

Personally, I think the reason that people my age aren't really into comics is because of the lack of any sort of advertising if you're not already interested in comics. The only reason I started to even take notice was because I started making friends who happened to be more interested in the comics, which lead me to where I am now. If Marvel, DC, or any other publisher actually tried to advertise outside of previews and catalogs then I could see new people coming in. If I can keep getting ads for stuff like browser extensions on YouTube, I think Marvel and DC could successfully bring new people in if they just did the same thing.

That's just my 2 cents though.

[comicginger1789]

5 hours ago, kaejol said:

I'm a younger collector and got into collecting in early 2019. I started collecting because of Donny Cates current run on venom (I sadly had to stop for a bit so I haven't been reading lately and have just been playing catch up with physical copies). I personally don't plan to sell my collection, I just buy to keep and later read (I know I could read digitally but that's just less fun).

Personally, I think the reason that people my age aren't really into comics is because of the lack of any sort of advertising if you're not already interested in comics. The only reason I started to even take notice was because I started making friends who happened to be more interested in the comics, which lead me to where I am now. If Marvel, DC, or any other publisher actually tried to advertise outside of previews and catalogs then I could see new people coming in. If I can keep getting ads for stuff like browser extensions on YouTube, I think Marvel and DC could successfully bring new people in if they just did the same thing.

That's just my 2 cents though.

Hmm you are right. Imagine if they did ads outside of comics? That seems to be the only place they advertise, is within their own product and within stores that sell their product. Imagine they went bigger with ads like you say? Or imagine bookstores carried posters or something advertising it? Or even a TV ad? I know that is expensive but has it been tried in the past two decades? I wonder why that hasn’t been done.

Thats great you found comics though! My question would be do you feel interested in acquiring first appearances of character you enjoy, like Venom? Do you care about older issues from the 90s for this character or could you care less? Granted I know ASM 300 is a steep price now but maybe someday it’s a goal of yours? Or are you content with the now and reading Venoms history by other means?

Edited January 16, 2021 by comicginger1789

[shadroch]

When I had my shop in the 80s, both Marvel and DC offered co-op money for advertising and they would offer us prepared ad slicks where you'd insert your stores information. some advertising was more successful than others. I took an eight week campaign in the local Pennysaver  with an eigth of a page each issue that rotated three or four ads. I think Marvel picked up about 70% of the cost and it brought it a few lookers but little real business. I ran ads in three local colleges that Marvel paid 100% for and I ended up with a few regulars out of it. Marvel used to pay half the cost of yellowbook advertising so one year DC upped their offer to 75%, which saved me money but didn't really ring in business. 

ECBRA, the earliest form of our Retailers Association spent months trying to negotiate a full page ad in one of the NY papers Sunday comics section but it was just too expensive. I forget the numbers but my share of the ad would have been around what I paid for a months rent and it wold not have listed my shop, just a generic- shop at your local comic shop. One or two owners balked at paying, figuring they would get the publicity if they paid or didn't, and the whole idea never took off. One owner was pushing us to rent a bill board at a very havy trsffic spot, which by coincidence was about a mile from his shop.

Advertising isn't cheap and the old motto- advertising doesn't cost, it pays, may no longer be true. 

The market is so fractured and unit sales are so low that I don't see any company devoting much to actual advertising.  

Marvel used to give each new account a copy of Guerilla Marketing, and I got great use out of it but what worked for me in the 1980s may not work in the 2020s.

 

[kaejol]

9 hours ago, comicginger1789 said:

Hmm you are right. Imagine if they did ads outside of comics? That seems to be the only place they advertise, is within their own product and within stores that sell their product. Imagine they went bigger with ads like you say? Or imagine bookstores carried posters or something advertising it? Or even a TV ad? I know that is expensive but has it been tried in the past two decades? I wonder why that hasn’t been done.

Thats great you found comics though! My question would be do you feel interested in acquiring first appearances of character you enjoy, like Venom? Do you care about older issues from the 90s for this character or could you care less? Granted I know ASM 300 is a steep price now but maybe someday it’s a goal of yours? Or are you content with the now and reading Venoms history by other means?

I'm not against reading digitally, I'll be honest I used to pirate comics back then because I didn't really care. I do still do it, but that's only if I'm too lazy to get up and pull a book out of my longbox, it's being delivered and hasn't arrived yet, or I plan to buy it in the future (good examples are the second volume of x-men legacy, and v for vendetta).

I do plan on buying older issues from the 90s and even the 80s, would definitely love to own ASM 300. I actually bought the first cameo and first full appearance of Legion because I loved the show, so I don't see why I wouldn't start getting others for other characters I love, it's just an issue of how much money I have right now. I do also enjoy just getting random books from the back issues section, as long as it doesn't cost me an arm and a leg (unless it's a special issue I'd say $25 CAD is the most I'd pay for a back issue).

Also I think absolute Carnage did get a tv ad, but I could be mistaken.

[Math Teacher]

Well, I got my start in comics by visiting my local barber shop once a month. In fact, there were times when my Mom went grocery shopping, and she just dropped me off at the barber shop until she was done. After a while, the barber would just give me 50¢ and I would go pick out the comics for him.

Of course, I can't imagine this happening today. First, a large portion of our population probably has never even been to a barber shop. I used to go to one here in town, but I then found out about a hair styling school nearby. Now, I go in every two weeks, get everything shaved off with no guard, and it costs me $6.42 each time. I should probably just start shaving my head, but I'm not giving up on what's left of my hair just yet.

I just don't know where today's kids are ever going to be exposed to comics, unless through a parent/grandparent. In my day, you would see comics at the grocery store, the pharmacy, and newsstands. Today, you see the occasional Archie digest in the check-out line of the grocery store. And Walmart and DC tried to sell comics in Walmarts. Just out of curiosity, is that still going on? But, for the most part, you most likely have to go out of your way to find a comic book store, and today's parents aren't prepared for the sticker shock on the price of today's new comics. For my part, I have donated many TPBs to my local school district, for use in the Middle School. My friend is the media specialist at the Middle School, and he says that those TPBs get checked out all the time. Even our local library has a healthy graphic novel section. So, it's clear that kids still enjoy comics. But unfortunately, they value Twitter or Call of Duty more.

[William-James88]

On 12/20/2020 at 6:41 PM, 1950's war comics said:

yes i think they will go the way of stamps , but the question is when... probably not for another 15 yrs or so

I didn't know stamps went down. Even the collumbus set?

 

Also to answer the question. I do not think the value of rare superhero golden age books will tank, nor the first appearance of popular characters from the silver age. Like I don't think Fantastic Four 5 will ever tank. But other more recent books, or unpopular books people lose interest in maybe. We've already seen it happen. Random example, Superman 184 tanked pretty hard, so has Brave and the Bold 29. For more recent examples, you have Man of Steel 18. I just know those examples because I bought those books within the past year and saw how much they had fallen. 

[William-James88]

On 12/29/2020 at 8:09 PM, revat said:

I think for the purpose the discussion, probably should define the use of the word "tank".  To me, using that word indicates a sudden significant drop of the entire market, as opposed to 'what will happen to the value of comics in the long run?'

or maybe i've been using 'tank' wrong?  

I think he is referring to those giant assault vehicles they use in war

[kaejol]

3 hours ago, Math Teacher said:

Well, I got my start in comics by visiting my local barber shop once a month. In fact, there were times when my Mom went grocery shopping, and she just dropped me off at the barber shop until she was done. After a while, the barber would just give me 50¢ and I would go pick out the comics for him.

Of course, I can't imagine this happening today. First, a large portion of our population probably has never even been to a barber shop. I used to go to one here in town, but I then found out about a hair styling school nearby. Now, I go in every two weeks, get everything shaved off with no guard, and it costs me $6.42 each time. I should probably just start shaving my head, but I'm not giving up on what's left of my hair just yet.

I just don't know where today's kids are ever going to be exposed to comics, unless through a parent/grandparent. In my day, you would see comics at the grocery store, the pharmacy, and newsstands. Today, you see the occasional Archie digest in the check-out line of the grocery store. And Walmart and DC tried to sell comics in Walmarts. Just out of curiosity, is that still going on? But, for the most part, you most likely have to go out of your way to find a comic book store, and today's parents aren't prepared for the sticker shock on the price of today's new comics. For my part, I have donated many TPBs to my local school district, for use in the Middle School. My friend is the media specialist at the Middle School, and he says that those TPBs get checked out all the time. Even our local library has a healthy graphic novel section. So, it's clear that kids still enjoy comics. But unfortunately, they value Twitter or Call of Duty more.

 

I think it's just people don't know what's going on in the comics and feel a bit intimidated. I mean I was a bit intimidated because of how many books there are and feeling like I need to constantly catch up on what's come before. Seriously walking into a comic book store when you're starting out kind of feels like you're a dear in headlights. There's just so much and you just don't know where to start or what to go for, even with the help of a clerk. I only got into it because I started meeting people and following people who talked a lot about the comics and decided to check out Venom #1, then kept reading more, and then decided I wanted physical copies, and then it just snowballed into me going every week for new releases.

Like seriously I swear if they just bought some ads on youtube it would help a ton. I get so many annoying ads on youtube, if marvel or dc just bought some instead of Honey or Grammarly I swear you'd see a lot more interest in comics. Like I'll be honest, the trailer marvel uploaded for Thor #9 on youtube and twitter was amazing, and I should have been seeing it everywhere.

[William-James88]

On 12/30/2020 at 2:24 PM, The Lions Den said:

Scenario #2: The comics market will be flooded with modern comics that will eventually become what Golden and Silver Age comics are now. The Golden/Silver Age books will become too pricey and too hard to find and new discoveries within that era will become virtually non-existent. In addition, many of the Golden/Silver Age collectors will pass away (sorry) and eventually there'll only be a couple of guys that own all the older books. But it won't really matter, because the modern collectors don't care about those books anyway. Not a perfect scenario, but slightly more optimistic than the first one...

 

I feel this is the scenario right now for golden age books (not silver yet). We can even see it on heritage. For some GA books (like the Fawcetts I collect), you only have a handful of bidders. And modern collectors don't care about these books at all.

[Mr.Fantastic]

As a former card collector I have seen the amount of card shops dwindle to almost nothing. When I was younger, you could find at least one in almost every town, and two in some towns. During this time (80's & 90's) the market was flooded with mass-produced cards and sets, and card companies invented new ways to replicate rarity through 1/1 cards, patches, and autos.  In the meantime, my son probably couldn't tell me two players on any team in the majors, as the case with many kids his age.  However, with all this going on the prices of pre-war cards and star rookie cards continued to increase. The prices increased due to affluent buyers wanting to re-live their childhood and competition with other affluent buyers who shared the same interest.  

In my opinion, comic books may be around longer than sports cards due to the revived interest new movies and shows have brought to the younger generation.  While a lot of kids today can't name two players from their favorite team, they know who Thor, Ironman, Hulk, and Thanos are. While the popularity of comic book collecting may dwindle sometime in the future, Golden and Silver Age books will be propped by the affluent buyers wanting to compete with their peers.  In my opinion, if you want to get into an area of collecting that may have a bright future for some time, then graded video games may be the way to go.