INVESTMENTS: Is it time to realize the truth? 3 3

[valiantman]

Quote

   1 hour ago, manetteska said:

Can you just change your username to RallyRd and cut out the middleman?

How many Rally topics — or thinly veiled attempts — do you need to start?

Does his stock go up if he gets more people to invest?

What’s the motivation to pimp this company?

 

Because it was MY IDEA! 

I had the idea for "a venue that allows the digital ownership of small fractions of much larger collectibles" twenty years ago.  20 YEARS!

RallyRd isn't doing everything that I envisioned, but they're doing some of it.

Why didn't I do it myself?  For the same reason that having an idea for the tallest building in the world in the middle of the ocean isn't a reasonable plan for one guy to accomplish.

The idea was always going to take capital, lawyers, developers, connections, and a time investment that isn't possible when you're married and the primary provider in one of the flyover states of the U.S.A.

I was NEVER going to make it happen, even if I did think it up.  Someone else was going to have to make it happen, 2000... nope.  2005... nope.  2010... nope.  2015... nope.

Why am I a supporter of RallyRd?  For the same reason that I supported the return of Valiant Comics in 2012.  I knew it would happen someday - and I knew I wouldn't be the one to do it.  When it finally did... I was there.

Edited December 26, 2020 by valiantman

[1950's war comics]

comic prices have skyrocketed so much that even a G+ AF 15 is now more valuable than one of the most valuable 20th century collectors coins in fine condition

David Hall:

The 1901-S Barber quarter is, in my opinion, the rarest regular issue (non-variety) silver coin of the 20th century. The original mintage of 72,664 is very low for the era. For example, the mintage of the 1901 was 8,892,000, the 1901-O was 1,612,000, and the 1902-S was 1,524,612. And the 1901-S was issued at a time when collecting branch mints was not the general practice. Most collectors at that time just sought one of each date, regardless of mint. Collecting by date and mint mark didn't start to get popular until about ten years later.

there is an estimated survival rate of only 2000 out of the original 72,000 minted and most all of those are in low grade

[valiantman]

1 hour ago, Buzzetta said:

 

Isn't that how most scams work?

Now, I do not think that Valiant is trying to scam the boards.

No, the topic is not about RallyRd - that is just one aspect of recognizing the new world of investments vs. traditional investments.

The topic is about recognizing that the "original intent of the founding fathers" (of comic book collecting) aren't carved into stone.  Read it and toss it, right?  Collect them but don't care about the value, right? Don't act like these are investments, right? Those ideas are just as valid as staying off the grass today.  You can "enforce the rules" or you can recognize that staying off the grass will never result in Super Bowls.  Bigger things are coming.

We can't talk about 10-cent or 12-cent comic books, watch them trade hands for decades in a secondary market for $10,000+ to $3,200,000, and continue to complain that "comics are for reading!"

The argument was lost somewhere around the time the market price became one hundred times the cover price... much less several million times the original price.

Comic books as an investment - and cards - are regularly trading for $10,000+ - and $10,000 is way beyond the level of "comics for reading!"

Comics (and cards) are investments - being actively selected by many in the young adult generations - and it is time to realize that truth and think ahead.

The next step becomes understanding what it means for comics to be investments.  They are investments, so what comes next?  Can you purchase Amazon or Google companies outright?  Nope.  Can you purchase enough stock to make you a company board member?  Nope.  What do you do if you want to invest in Amazon or Google?  You buy a share (or a fraction of a share) and you don't control any aspect of the company, you don't physically own anything you can hold in your hands, and you buy more or sell all from the same device you're using to post on this message board.

It's how investments work today - and the only difference is that a share of Amazon or Google stock is a "traditional investment" but a share of Amazing Fantasy #15 isn't.

Which is the better investment?  One copy of a recent Spider-Man variant that sells for $20,000 that you can hold in your hands -or- $20,000 worth of a high grade copy of Amazing Fantasy #15?  That's easy - only a fool would say it's the recent Spider-Man variant, because a 40-years-later Spider-Man variant will never be a better investment than a high grade copy of the 1st appearance of the same character.  Perhaps it's the "hold it in your hands" aspect that makes it more desirable.  OK, but good luck holding that share of Amazon or Google.

But how do you buy either of those books if only have $2,000?  The traditional collectors on this board would say "you save up!" or "you don't!" or "settle for something cheaper!" and I say... no.  There will be a way to put $2,000 into a book worth $20,000 or $200,000, and it will be as reasonable as owning $2,000 worth of Amazon or Google.  Maybe not today, but soon.

When that happens, "investing in comic books" won't be boxes of $0.50 to $50 books.  It will be $500 or $5,000 worth of a book valued at $500,000... and a box of $0.50 to $50 books that aren't the "investment".  Those will be the "hobby", not the investment.

Edited December 26, 2020 by valiantman

[mattn792]

@valiantman - I agree with you that there's no reason the ownership of comics, or other collectibles, can't be fractionalized into shares.  RallyRd just doesn't seem like a place I would trust.  In addition to my previous gripes, you're stuck with an automatic 90 day post-IPO lockdown, and then you can only trade your shares on one day of any given month.  Seems like a great way to get your money trapped.

They may be the only game in town (at the moment) if you want to buy shares of certain collectibles, but that doesn't make giving them your money a good idea.

[valiantman]

5 minutes ago, mattn792 said:

@valiantman - I agree with you that there's no reason the ownership of comics, or other collectibles, can't be fractionalized into shares.  RallyRd just doesn't seem like a place I would trust.  In addition to my previous gripes, you're stuck with an automatic 90 day post-IPO lockdown, and then you can only trade your shares on one day of any given month.  Seems like a great way to get your money trapped.

They may be the only game in town (at the moment) if you want to buy shares of certain collectibles, but that doesn't make giving them your money a good idea.

Exactly - the idea of fractional ownership is valid - the RallyRd venue needs work. 

Ebay wasn't the first online auction venue.  Amazon wasn't the first online book seller.  Google wasn't the first search engine.

RallyRd is doing something that's a good idea.  Maybe they're not the venue that will make it the standard, but the idea was always going to be big for someone, just like online auctions, online book sellers, and search engines.

I support the fractional ownership of collectibles idea - and the impact that it will have on the reality of investments.

But fractional ownership is Step 2.  The first step is simply recognizing comics ARE investments... and staying on topic, it is time to realize that truth. 

Edited December 26, 2020 by valiantman

[Aman619]

those of us who fervently believed that slabbing comics wound never succeed as too new and too ridiculous given all we knew and felt about our floppy comics collecting and investing (to name one relevant example) , the fractional investment concept feels like its time is coming for all the reasons Valiant puts forth.  It introduces a comparable level of radically different thinking to comics collecting/investing that of course theres vocal derision and resistance....jut like with CGC 20 years ago....  until we get, as Valiant states,  a trustworthy outfit to do it right.  That COULD even be Rally Rd should their concept take off and they can successfully offer more transparency and solve the other trust issues.

Im not interested... but it feels like the next wave about to crash into our comics sand castle of old  

[mattn792]

14 minutes ago, valiantman said:

I support the fractional ownership of collectibles idea - and the impact that it will have on the reality of investments.

But fractional ownership is Step 2.  The first step is simply recognizing comics ARE investments... and staying on topic, it is time to realize that truth. 

Frankly, if someone out there introduced a platform where you could buy and sell collectible shares in real time that was open for business just like the traditional stock market, or heck even operated 24/7, that would quite possibly drive prices into the stratosphere for certain books. 

[Buzzetta]

38 minutes ago, valiantman said:

No, the topic is not about RallyRd - that is just one aspect of recognizing the new world of investments vs. traditional investments.

The topic is about recognizing that the "original intent of the founding fathers" (of comic book collecting) aren't carved into stone.  Read it and toss it, right?  Collect them but don't care about the value, right? Don't act like these are investments, right? Those ideas are just as valid as staying off the grass today.  You can "enforce the rules" or you can recognize that staying off the grass will never result in Super Bowls.  Bigger things are coming.

We can't talk about 10-cent or 12-cent comic books, watch them trade hands for decades in a secondary market for $10,000+ to $3,200,000, and continue to complain that "comics are for reading!"

The argument was lost somewhere around the time the market price became one hundred times the cover price... much less several million times the original price.

Comic books as an investment - and cards - are regularly trading for $10,000+ - and $10,000 is way beyond the level of "comics for reading!"

Comics (and cards) are investments - being actively selected by many in the young adult generations - and it is time to realize that truth and think ahead.

The next step becomes understanding what it means for comics to be investments.  They are investments, so what comes next?  Can you purchase Amazon or Google companies outright?  Nope.  Can you purchase enough stock to make you a company board member?  Nope.  What do you do if you want to invest in Amazon or Google?  You buy a share (or a fraction of a share) and you don't control any aspect of the company, you don't physically own anything you can hold in your hands, and you buy more or sell all from the same device you're using to post on this message board.

It's how investments work today - and the only difference is that a share of Amazon or Google stock is a "traditional investment" but a share of Amazing Fantasy #15 isn't.

Which is the better investment?  One copy of a recent Spider-Man variant that sells for $20,000 that you can hold in your hands -or- $20,000 worth of a high grade copy of Amazing Fantasy #15?  That's easy - only a fool would say it's the recent Spider-Man variant, because a 40-years-later Spider-Man variant will never be a better investment than a high grade copy of the 1st appearance of the same character.  Perhaps it's the "hold it in your hands" aspect that makes it more desirable.  OK, but good luck holding that share of Amazon or Google.

But how do you buy either of those books if only have $2,000?  The traditional collectors on this board would say "you save up!" or "you don't!" or "settle for something cheaper!" and I say... no.  There will be a way to put $2,000 into a book worth $20,000 or $200,000, and it will be as reasonable as owning $2,000 worth of Amazon or Google.  Maybe not today, but soon.

When that happens, "investing in comic books" won't be boxes of $0.50 to $50 books.  It will be $500 or $5,000 worth of a book valued at $500,000... and a box of $0.50 to $50 books that aren't the "investment".  Those will be the "hobby", not the investment.

 

15 minutes ago, mattn792 said:

@valiantman - I agree with you that there's no reason the ownership of comics, or other collectibles, can't be fractionalized into shares.  RallyRd just doesn't seem like a place I would trust.  In addition to my previous gripes, you're stuck with an automatic 90 day post-IPO lockdown, and then you can only trade your shares on one day of any given month.  Seems like a great way to get your money trapped.

They may be the only game in town (at the moment) if you want to buy shares of certain collectibles, but that doesn't make giving them your money a good idea.

There are many things that they are doing that should cause alarm.  Now I readily admit that at the going rate that certain books trade hands that collectables at a certain level are investment pieces.   However, this is a scam pure and simple.  

No, I am not going to publicly lay out how they can easily scam people.  Why publicly post a guidebook? However, I will reach out to them again as a prospective investor and ask a few questions to see what their responses are.  There are way too many issues here and after going through their user agreement and terms, I can see gaping holes in using them if they decide to make a few decisions regarding what they are doing with their collectables.  

[valiantman]

4 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

There are many things that they are doing that should cause alarm.  Now I readily admit that at the going rate that certain books trade hands that collectables at a certain level are investment pieces.   However, this is a scam pure and simple.  

No, I am not going to publicly lay out how they can easily scam people.  Why publicly post a guidebook? However, I will reach out to them again as a prospective investor and ask a few questions to see what their responses are.  There are way too many issues here and after going through their user agreement and terms, I can see gaping holes in using them if they decide to make a few decisions regarding what they are doing with their collectables.  

Which of these potential scams will result in the bad guys not being put into prison?

Because if they can take the money and not get into trouble, that would be a big problem.

If they would be risking prison to try these scams, then that joins the list of everything that everyone does everywhere, which always has the potential to be a scam... as long as you're willing to risk prison.

[Buzzetta]

2 minutes ago, Aman619 said:

those of us who fervently believed that slabbing comics wound never succeed as too new and too ridiculous given all we knew and felt about our floppy comics collecting and investing (to name one relevant example) , the fractional investment concept feels like its time is coming for all the reasons Valiant puts forth.  It introduces a comparable level of radically different thinking to comics collecting/investing that of course theres vocal derision and resistance....jut like with CGC 20 years ago....  until we get, as Valiant states,  a trustworthy outfit to do it right.  That COULD even be Rally Rd should their concept take off and they can successfully offer more transparency and solve the other trust issues.

Im not interested... but it feels like the next wave about to crash into our comics sand castle of old  

To the thought that today's moderns are garbage.  I have changed my opinion on a lot of this.  The variant thing is a little too self manufactured for my tastes... However...

When Action 1, Bat 1, Tec 1 and Superman 1 became out of reach for the common collector, the common collector looked at the next big thing such as Silver Age Marvel like AF 15, FF 1, ASM 1 and so on. 

When AF 15, FF 1, ASM 1 and so on because out of reach for the common collector, the common collector looked at the next big thing such as books like TMNT 1, Hulk 181 and so on. 

When TMNT 1, Hulk 181 and so on became out of reach for the common collector, the common collector looked at the next big thing like BA12, NM98, ASM 300 and so on.

As books move up, the collecting community looks at what the next big thing is and hope to get in on the ground floor.  We are seeing it with some of the Star Wars books, 1st RiRi, and so on... 

 

As far as fractional ownership.  I have yet to see where this model that rally rd has crafted cannot lead to malfeasance of invested funds. 

[Hollywood1892]

11 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

 

There are many things that they are doing that should cause alarm.  Now I readily admit that at the going rate that certain books trade hands that collectables at a certain level are investment pieces.   However, this is a scam pure and simple.  

No, I am not going to publicly lay out how they can easily scam people.  Why publicly post a guidebook? However, I will reach out to them again as a prospective investor and ask a few questions to see what their responses are.  There are way too many issues here and after going through their user agreement and terms, I can see gaping holes in using them if they decide to make a few decisions regarding what they are doing with their collectables.  

So you are just going to offer your general baseless opinion?

[Buzzetta]

1 minute ago, valiantman said:

Which of these potential scams will result in the bad guys not being put into prison?

Because if they can take the money and not get into trouble, that would be a big problem.

If they would be risking prison to try these scams, then that joins the list of everything that everyone does everywhere, which always has the potential to be a scam... as long as you're willing to risk prison.

People like to poke the bear.  Every scammer did not think they would be caught until they did.  Every scammer thought that they would find a way to float under the radar until they were caught. 

Rally Rd is no different.  You look at it and believe it to be a realization of an idea that you had.  I actually can appreciate that. 

 

I look at it for the scam it is. 

[Hollywood1892]

[valiantman]

Just now, Buzzetta said:

People like to poke the bear.  Every scammer did not think they would be caught until they did.  Every scammer thought that they would find a way to float under the radar until they were caught. 

Rally Rd is no different.  You look at it and believe it to be a realization of an idea that you had.  I actually can appreciate that. 

 

I look at it for the scam it is. 

So, you agree that whatever scam you think they're running, they would be in significant legal trouble if they were caught... if they are running that scam at all?

Because if there is some way their fine print allows them to take the money and not get into any trouble, I'm happy to hear what you've found.

If you only believe that they could scam people and could go to prison for it, and you're just offering a friendly warning, then I'll also point out that I have installed multiple 500-pound boulders in my front yard with the assumption that none of my neighbors or visitors to the area will take those boulders from my yard.  However, I am sure that I cannot stop them if they do take my boulders when I am not home.  I like having small fractions of the planet standing at the edge of my small fraction of the planet.  It's a risk I'm willing to take, even though I cannot control the people who might like to steal from me.

[Hollywood1892]

I think it remains to be seen whether or not it is a proper investment.

You have contributed greatly to these boards Valiantman and I know you're intent is good

What it really comes down to is peoples choice on putting money down or not.

Have you taken money out of your initial investment?

[Buzzetta]

Just now, valiantman said:

So, you agree that whatever scam you think they're running, they would be in significant legal trouble if they were caught... if they are running that scam at all?

Because if there is some way their fine print allows them to take the money and not get into any trouble, I'm happy to hear what you've found.

If you only believe that they could scam people and could go to prison for it, and you're just offering a friendly warning, then I'll also point out that I have installed multiple 500-pound boulders in my front yard with the assumption that none of my neighbors or visitors to the area will take those boulders from my yard.  However, I am sure that I cannot stop them if they do take my boulders when I am not home.  I like having small fractions of the planet standing at the edge of my small fraction of the planet.  It's a risk I'm willing to take, even though I cannot control the people who might like to steal from me.

I know that there are lines in the user agreement which releases them from individual culpability should things fall apart.  Now the model is created so that if one were to engage in some malfeasance, it would leave a doorway open for things to fall apart with investors holding the bag.  

As far as hearing what I have found I have no problem further asking them questions to see if they respond this time with something other than, I am welcome to call them to further discuss it.  

[valiantman]

Just now, Hollywood1892 said:

I think it remains to be seen whether or not it is a proper investment.

You have contributed greatly to these boards Valiantman and I know you're intent is good

What it really comes down to is peoples choice on putting money down or not.

Have you taken money out of your initial investment?

RallyRd sells items from time to time.  I got an email today that they have sold the Super Mario Bros 2 sealed video game for $26.51 per share.  I fondly remember playing the game, so I bought two shares at $15 each when the item was offered.  I can take the $53.02 out next week, or leave it in there to buy shares of Journey into Mystery #83 when they're offered soon.

[Hollywood1892]

5 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

I know that there are lines in the user agreement which releases them from individual culpability should things fall apart.  Now the model is created so that if one were to engage in some malfeasance, it would leave a doorway open for things to fall apart with investors holding the bag.  

As far as hearing what I have found I have no problem further asking them questions to see if they respond this time with something other than, I am welcome to call them to further discuss it.  

This happens with every investment 

Here is Facebook for example

https://mobile-reuters-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN0PY1MR20150724?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16090094135194&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Farticle%2Fus-facebook-lawsuit-idUSKCN0PY1MR20150724

 

 

https://mobile-reuters-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKCN1GA2JR?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16090094135194&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Farticle%2Fus-facebook-settlement-idUKKCN1GA2JR

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/may/24/facebook-ipo-mark-zuckerberg-nasdaq

Edited December 26, 2020 by Hollywood1892

[Hollywood1892]

2 minutes ago, valiantman said:

RallyRd sells items from time to time.  I got an email today that they have sold the Super Mario Bros 2 sealed video game for $26.51 per share.  I fondly remember playing the game, so I bought two shares at $15 each when the item was offered.  I can take the $53.02 out next week, or leave it in there to buy shares of Journey into Mystery #83 when they're offered soon.

Maybe people would feel safer if shares were offered on Nasdaq or Dow Jones ect 

The best thing about the hardcopy investment outside of possible retail value is physically having it in your possession. If this site is a proven safe investment practice then a lot of personal securities are covered like fire/water and other sorts of damage

The thing is individual share holders should be able to sell their shares anytime they want

[Hollywood1892]

On 12/24/2020 at 12:56 PM, valiantman said:

"Investments" across the board are seeing a major shift in focus. 

This year, every child born anytime up to 1999 turns at least 21 years old.  Children born in 1989 probably don't remember a time before the internet was at least marketed as a household name like AOL or Yahoo.  They're already 30+ years old.  Born in 1979?  You're 40+, and you watched animated shows, bought the toys, collected cards/comics, and played video games before the internet was in every house.

All of these 20 to 40 year olds can probably remember something about the stock market crashing in 2008-2010 when the housing market crashed.  They definitely remember the stock market crash of early 2020, even with the rebound in prices to current highs.  They know companies have been hurt by Covid and their revenues are falling month after month.

What are the traditional investments?  Stocks and real estate... two major centuries-old institutions that look extremely risky to a generation (or two) of adults under 50 (including me).

Bitcoin has outperformed every other possible "get rich someday" investment in the past 10 years, despite being the riskiest thing ever according to just about every investment expert.

When you can't afford a McMansion to live in like every desperate housewife on television, or even afford to own a home versus renting, you aren't investing in real estate.

When you watch every stock across the board fall overnight or within a couple of weeks, you wonder why you're supposed to bet your retirement investments on CEOs that don't want you to have $15/hour...

When you missed out on Bitcoin because it was "too risky" and "you don't actually own anything" and "it's just ones and zeroes" or because you were too young to invest...

And when there are millions of others just like you...

You either force something that doesn't feel right (stocks, real estate, mutual funds/IRAs/401ks), you take a risk on something still considered risky at $20,000 when it used to be $1 (bitcoin), or you look elsewhere for something to care about and make you happy investing.

Looking elsewhere for something you do care about means looking backwards... childhood, teen years, happy times.   Nostalgia.

Yes, every investment has the potential to lose money.  Sadness is probably inevitable, regardless, but happiness doesn't have to be excluded.

Spider-Man, Michael Jordan, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Star Wars, Nintendo... are words that easily beat "No-Load Mutual Funds", "Subprime Mortgage", and "Traditional Investment" in the 21st century.

Especially if your investments and your future are also supposed to include... happiness.

Your splitting investments between stocks and collectibles, which in my opinion aren't affected the same by economic downturns

2008 happened because of money given out that really wasn't there i.e mortgages ect

Sadly Covid has destroyed more small businesses then larger ones (Corporations).

When investing either way we always run risks