Has this staple been replaced ? 2 2

[migmtl76]

Opinions ?

Thanks guys

Edited December 26, 2020 by migmtl76

[The Lions Den]

After careful consideration, I'm going to venture that it hasn't been replaced...

[migmtl76]

4 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

After careful consideration, I'm going to venture that it hasn't been replaced...

Thanks for your opinion. Does CGC offer a pre-screen fo restoration ?

[Lightning55]

Not replaced, in my opinion -

If you are going to replace it, maybe not use a rusty staple.  Looks correct for the period, undisturbed.

Impression marks from opposite centerfold page line up.

Curious what led you to suspect it was replaced.

[migmtl76]

Just now, Lightning55 said:

Not replaced, in my opinion -

If you are going to replace it, maybe not use a rusty staple.  Looks correct for the period, undisturbed.

Impression marks from opposite centerfold page line up.

Curious what led you to suspect it was replaced.

Hi. Actually I am selling it on eBay and a potential buyer wanted to know.

I was not sure so I asked the experts here on the forum

[James J Johnson]

24 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

After careful consideration, I'm going to venture that it hasn't been replaced...

+1. 

[Lightning55]

12 minutes ago, Lightning55 said:

Not replaced, in my opinion -

If you are going to replace it, maybe not use a rusty staple.  Looks correct for the period, undisturbed.

Impression marks from opposite centerfold page line up.

Curious what led you to suspect it was replaced.

 

11 minutes ago, migmtl76 said:

Hi. Actually I am selling it on eBay and a potential buyer wanted to know.

I was not sure so I asked the experts here on the forum

The buyer may have thought that the staple's position on the front looked like it was stapled with a hand stapler, not on the spine like at the printer.  As in as close as you could get to the spine, entering from the right with a hand stapler, if you were correcting a lost staple or one that never got put in.  The buyer did not have the advantage of seeing the centerfold area to see that there was never a set of holes on the fold.

[The Lions Den]

And as an additional observation, I recently saw a couple of CGC Silver Age books that actually noted that both staples had been removed and then subsequently replaced (not manufacturing). And one of them was replaced with three staples instead of just two. They both received a blue label, and the one with three replaced staples achieved a grade of 7.0, while the other book achieved a grade of 7.5. 

So even if the staple on your book had been replaced, apparently it would still be possible to receive a relatively high grade blue label...  

[migmtl76]

3 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

And as an additional observation, I recently saw a couple of CGC Silver Age books that actually noted that both staples had been removed and then subsequently replaced (not manufacturing). And one of them was replaced with three staples instead of just two. They both received a blue label, and the one with three replaced staples achieved a grade of 7.0, while the other book achieved a grade of 7.5. 

So even if the staple on your book had been replaced, apparently it would still be possible to receive a relatively high grade blue label...  

Normally staple replacement gets what color label at cgc ?

[AJD]

9 minutes ago, migmtl76 said:

Normally staple replacement gets what color label at cgc ?

Green.

[Lightning55]

I see that Overstreet's criteria is that staples can be replaced up to grade FINE.  Vintage staples have to be used on grades VERY FINE to NEAR MINT.  MINT books have to have their original staples.  If the Overstreet guidelines are relevant, that is. 

I don't see any mention of staples in the very sketchy CGC Grading Scale: https://www.cgccomics.com/grading/grading-scale/

Seems like, as usual, we are left to take a guess.

[Lightning55]

Looks like I needed to move over one tab on that page.  Under the Restoration tab, it lists methods of Conservation, which includes staple replacement.  So if Staple replacement is Conservation, and Conservation falls under Restoration, looks like they're whipping out a Purple label.

RESTORATION (heading)

1 (Slight) - All conservation work

 

Conservation repairs are performed with the intent of preserving the structural or chemical integrity of a comic book using professional techniques and materials. It excludes aesthetic repairs such as color touch and piece fill. All conserved grades must satisfy the CGC quality scale of "A" and quantity scale of "1".

• Tear seals
• Spine split seals
• Reinforcement
• Piece reattachment
• Some cover or interior cleaning (water or solvent)
• Staples cleaned or replaced
• Some leaf casting
• De-acidification

[The Lions Den]

33 minutes ago, Lightning55 said:

Looks like I needed to move over one tab on that page.  Under the Restoration tab, it lists methods of Conservation, which includes staple replacement.  So if Staple replacement is Conservation, and Conservation falls under Restoration, looks like they're whipping out a Purple label.

RESTORATION (heading)

1 (Slight) - All conservation work

 

Conservation repairs are performed with the intent of preserving the structural or chemical integrity of a comic book using professional techniques and materials. It excludes aesthetic repairs such as color touch and piece fill. All conserved grades must satisfy the CGC quality scale of "A" and quantity scale of "1".

• Tear seals
• Spine split seals
• Reinforcement
• Piece reattachment
• Some cover or interior cleaning (water or solvent)
• Staples cleaned or replaced
• Some leaf casting
• De-acidification

One thing I can add is this does seem to depend on the extent of cleaning that occurs to the staple or staples...

However, the replacement aspect of this on the books I saw does make me wonder how it's possible they received a higher grade blue label. So yes, these types of things are puzzling...  

[sledgehammer]

17 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

After careful consideration, I'm going to venture that it hasn't been replaced...

I think it was replaced. The slight damage above the top of the staple on the inside and outside is an indicator to me.

For years, Overstreet said replacing staples with "vintage" staples was ok up to the grade "NM".

I don't know if that's still the case, but staple replacement has never bothered me in the slightest. I will jump all over CGC staple replacement books.

They are usually a great bargain, but that's just my opinion. I'm still beating myself up over an ASM 6.0 #1 that I passed up for around $5.2K five years ago.

Most of the silver age CGC green labels I've seen (usually in the 7.0 to 9.0 range), did not have vintage staples.

When you worked there, did you catch many "vintage" staple replacements?

 

[The Lions Den]

19 hours ago, sledgehammer said:

I think it was replaced. The slight damage above the top of the staple on the inside and outside is an indicator to me.

For years, Overstreet said replacing staples with "vintage" staples was ok up to the grade "NM".

I don't know if that's still the case, but staple replacement has never bothered me in the slightest. I will jump all over CGC staple replacement books.

They are usually a great bargain, but that's just my opinion. I'm still beating myself up over an ASM 6.0 #1 that I passed up for around $5.2K five years ago.

Most of the silver age CGC green labels I've seen (usually in the 7.0 to 9.0 range), did not have vintage staples.

When you worked there, did you catch many "vintage" staple replacements?

 

It's something that was always closely looked at, and we definitely found our share of books with replaced staples and other staple related issues. And most of the time, those things stood out like a sore thumb. 

I certainly do see your point with the staple in this case as well---the enlarged hole is suspicious and it is an indicator. The thing is, I was trained to not hit a book for anything unless there's a preponderance of the evidence, and I can see other things that appear to be correct with this staple. So while I sincerely respect and value your opinion, for me it's inconclusive...  

Edited December 28, 2020 by The Lions Den

[migmtl76]

8 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

It's something that was always closely looked at, and we definitely found our share of books with replaced staples and other staple related issues. And most of the time, those things stood out like a sore thumb. 

I certainly do see your point with the staple in this case as well---the enlarged hole is suspicious and it is an indicator. The thing is, I was trained not to hit a book for anything unless there's a preponderance of the evidence, and I can see other things that appear to be correct with this staple. So while I sincerely respect and value your opinion, for me it's inconclusive...  

This is like an epidode of Law & Order

[The Lions Den]

4 hours ago, migmtl76 said:

This is like an epidode of Law & Order

[The Lions Den]

On 12/26/2020 at 4:38 PM, migmtl76 said:

Thanks for your opinion. Does CGC offer a pre-screen fo restoration ?

What an interesting concept! 

Personally, I'd just send a book like this through the appropriate tier and let CGC make the call...unless you wanted to have it pressed and cleaned, of course.

And just so you know, one of the reasons I'm not convinced the staple has been replaced is because the offset placement of the staple to the spine would undoubtedly cause more pronounced stress around the staple entry holes---all it usually takes is for the book to have been opened a few times. But that's just my humble opinion...  

Edited December 28, 2020 by The Lions Den