Part 2: A-Level Panel Page Valuations by Artist/Run 7 7

[pestonaccio]

As some of you might known, I have been helping, in the last years, fellow collectors buying/selling pages from the sandman, so I know some of the prices from private sales.

I think that the range 10/20k and 20/30k is too big, maybe we should split them in 10/15k, 15/20k etc.

Let's start for Bachalo's death: I can say that it's pretty hard to reach 10k. Maybe the best pages can reach 12k, but 20k? Maybe one or two from the first mini and one from the second (Titles or splashes). So I think we have to lower the values (and I am a proud owner of one wonderful page).

Kelley Jones 10/20k. No way you can get an A page from his issues for less than 15/17k. I would buy any page A page for 10k. If it's a top moment from season of mists or a dream of a thousand cats, I'd say we are over 20k.

Thompson 10/20k? Too much even if it's dream destruction and delirium. Normal A page is around 15k. Can't see and Thompson page reaching 20k.

Then there is Vess: midsummers dream is easily 20/30k. Easily. The tempest 10/20k.

PC Russell on Ramadan: easily 20k/30k.

Hempel, McManus, Bachalo, Zulli all over 10k. Depending on the moment of the story they can go up in value.

 

To make a long story short, there is no way you can get a nice Sandman story for less than 10k, maybe 15k . They are hard to find and very expensive (and I don't think it depends on the new netflix show). 

 

Hope this helps and, of course,  I am open to discussion.

 

Ps: I have re-read this post and it's very confused, don't know if it's because English is not my mother tongue or because the situation of Sanan art is very complex and always evolving.

Ciao,

Luca

 

 

 

[jjonahjameson11]

26 minutes ago, pestonaccio said:

As some of you might known, I have been helping, in the last years, fellow collectors buying/selling pages from the sandman, so I know some of the prices from private sales.

I think that the range 10/20k and 20/30k is too big, maybe we should split them in 10/15k, 15/20k etc.

Let's start for Bachalo's death: I can say that it's pretty hard to reach 10k. Maybe the best pages can reach 12k, but 20k? Maybe one or two from the first mini and one from the second (Titles or splashes). So I think we have to lower the values (and I am a proud owner of one wonderful page).

Kelley Jones 10/20k. No way you can get an A page from his issues for less than 15/17k. I would buy any page A page for 10k. If it's a top moment from season of mists or a dream of a thousand cats, I'd say we are over 20k.

Thompson 10/20k? Too much even if it's dream destruction and delirium. Normal A page is around 15k. Can't see and Thompson page reaching 20k.

Then there is Vess: midsummers dream is easily 20/30k. Easily. The tempest 10/20k.

PC Russell on Ramadan: easily 20k/30k.

Hempel, McManus, Bachalo, Zulli all over 10k. Depending on the moment of the story they can go up in value.

 

To make a long story short, there is no way you can get a nice Sandman story for less than 10k, maybe 15k . They are hard to find and very expensive (and I don't think it depends on the new netflix show). 

 

Hope this helps and, of course,  I am open to discussion.

 

Ps: I have re-read this post and it's very confused, don't know if it's because English is not my mother tongue or because the situation of Sanan art is very complex and always evolving.

Ciao,

Luca

 

 

 

Hi, Luca:

great analysis of Sandman page values by artist.

I can confirm that I paid over $20K for a Bachalo Page from the 1st Death mini series, and it’s not even the best page from the issue.

[pestonaccio]

33 minutes ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

Hi, Luca:

great analysis of Sandman page values by artist.

I can confirm that I paid over $20K for a Bachalo Page from the 1st Death mini series, and it’s not even the best page from the issue.

Oh well, I am curious now. Is it.on caf? I have had many pages in the last years floating around me and not even one reached that amount.

As far as I know, one issue is still intact (if my memory serves it was owned by Peter David), one is almost missing and one has been sold/traded by the brothers. Did you buy your page from them? In this case you should cut in half.the price paid! :-)

[heartened]

5 hours ago, pestonaccio said:

As some of you might known, I have been helping, in the last years, fellow collectors buying/selling pages from the sandman, so I know some of the prices from private sales.

I think that the range 10/20k and 20/30k is too big, maybe we should split them in 10/15k, 15/20k etc.

Let's start for Bachalo's death: I can say that it's pretty hard to reach 10k. Maybe the best pages can reach 12k, but 20k? Maybe one or two from the first mini and one from the second (Titles or splashes). So I think we have to lower the values (and I am a proud owner of one wonderful page).

Kelley Jones 10/20k. No way you can get an A page from his issues for less than 15/17k. I would buy any page A page for 10k. If it's a top moment from season of mists or a dream of a thousand cats, I'd say we are over 20k.

Thompson 10/20k? Too much even if it's dream destruction and delirium. Normal A page is around 15k. Can't see and Thompson page reaching 20k.

Then there is Vess: midsummers dream is easily 20/30k. Easily. The tempest 10/20k.

PC Russell on Ramadan: easily 20k/30k.

Hempel, McManus, Bachalo, Zulli all over 10k. Depending on the moment of the story they can go up in value.

 

To make a long story short, there is no way you can get a nice Sandman story for less than 10k, maybe 15k . They are hard to find and very expensive (and I don't think it depends on the new netflix show). 

 

Hope this helps and, of course,  I am open to discussion.

 

Ps: I have re-read this post and it's very confused, don't know if it's because English is not my mother tongue or because the situation of Sanan art is very complex and always evolving.

Ciao,

Luca

 

 

 

Hi Luca,

Thanks for the analysis!  I have a Bachalo Death A-level page that I've been offered over 10K, so I can confirm that value on the market too.  I didn't sell.  Also, I want to clarify that the range doesn't mean the every artist/title in that bracket starts at the bottom of the range and goes up to the top of the range; rather it means that the A page will on average fall somewhere in that range.  It may be toward the bottom or toward the top, but over time as it escalates (or goes down), it may go to the next tier or drop a tier.  These ranges are meant to be guides.  Collectors and sellers are still going to have to do some research on where to price/value their page, based on what actually makes an A level page for that artist on that title : is it the inker, the main character on the page, storyline, content on that page, villain present, or other factors.  So, this list basically is just to get people in the ballpark, which in and of itself is quite helpful but certainly not everything!

 

Edited January 3, 2021 by heartened

[jjonahjameson11]

10 minutes ago, pestonaccio said:

Oh well, I am curious now. Is it.on caf? I have had many pages in the last years floating around me and not even one reached that amount.

As far as I know, one issue is still intact (if my memory serves it was owned by Peter David), one is almost missing and one has been sold/traded by the brothers. Did you buy your page from them? In this case you should cut in half.the price paid! :-)

Hi, Luca:

I stopped posting my collection on CAF some time ago.

regarding who I purchased my page from, I will confirm that it is a dealer, and I paid the full amount in cash.

I also purchased another page from the 1st mini series from another dealer in the high teens.

why did I pay so much?  Simple:

1. I think Death is the greatest character to come from the Sandman series, and nobody illustrated her features/attitude/quirkiness better than Bachalo.  He captured her essence best.

2. it would be great to own an A-level page from Sandman 8 with Death, but at what cost?

3. I really, really like the pages that I purchased and there wasn’t any comparable pages available.  As you stated in your initial email, these pages aren’t easy to come by.

[heartened]

15 minutes ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

Hi, Luca:

I stopped posting my collection on CAF some time ago.

regarding who I purchased my page from, I will confirm that it is a dealer, and I paid the full amount in cash.

I also purchased another page from the 1st mini series from another dealer in the high teens.

why did I pay so much?  Simple:

1. I think Death is the greatest character to come from the Sandman series, and nobody illustrated her features/attitude/quirkiness better than Bachalo.  He captured her essence best.

2. it would be great to own an A-level page from Sandman 8 with Death, but at what cost?

3. I really, really like the pages that I purchased and there wasn’t any comparable pages available.  As you stated in your initial email, these pages aren’t easy to come by.

So..... for our Sandman experts, keep Bachalo in 10-20K?  Where do we put Vess and PCR?  Are those pages you are talking about in the 20-30K range A+ pages?  If so, then we put the typical A level Vess/PCR in the 10-20K range, no?

Edited January 2, 2021 by heartened

[pestonaccio]

38 minutes ago, heartened said:

Hi Luca,

Thanks for the analysis!  I have a Bacalo Death A-level page that I've been offered over 10K, so I can confirm that value on the market too.  I didn't sell.  Also, I want to clarify that the range doesn't mean the every artist/title in that bracket starts at the bottom of the range and goes up to the top of the range; rather it means that the A page will on average fall somewhere in that range.  It may be toward the bottom or toward the top, but over time as it escalates (or goes down), it may go to the next tier or drop a tier.  These ranges are meant to be guides.  Collectors and sellers are still going to have to do some research on where to price/value their page, based on what actually makes an A level page for that artist on that title : is it the inker, the main character on the page, storyline, content on that page, villain present, or other factors.  So, this list basically is just to get people in the ballpark, which in and of itself is quite helpful but certainly not everything!

 

I totally understand your point.

I would suggest considering splitting the 10/20k category in 10/15k and 15/20k. Probably it is more complicated, but my opinion is that between 10k and 20k the difference is bigger than between 20k and 30k. Hope this makes sense.

 

[NinjaSealed]

On 1/1/2021 at 11:28 AM, Bill C said:

Not sure about Flash 2up in the 5-10K range for A level panel pages, based on known/public auction results (unless my memory is fading, which is possible). I know an A level content battle page from 153 did sell in that range on HA in the last few years IIRC, but that's the only example I can think of off the top of my head.

Several pages sold in the last HA for very cheap, although not A level (and possibly damaged?). There are I think 9 SA Cinfa Flash 2up pages in the current HA, a couple being A level content, so we'll see more data points in a couple weeks.

B level pages are still in the 3-5k range, but I think any A level pages are above that at this point. Probably just different viewpoints over what is A level. 
 

21 hours ago, O. said:

I did debate whether to bump Capullo Bats to the next bracket based on pieces sold from his site, but erred on the side of caution as there haven't been any $5k+ secondary sales AFAIK.

That said, I'm certainly open to bumping it up as there have been $4k+ sales. Although, the #32 page 9 discussed therein did drop back to $2.5k in September 2019.

 

Definitely 3-5k, I think a bit of the hype and interest has died down in the run and there are a lot of A pages sitting there unsold for a long time in the 5-10k range.
 

9 hours ago, heartened said:

And are the Capullo/McF pages the ones that have hit the 3-5K mark?  If so, I will amend.

This is correct, Will second this.

[pestonaccio]

31 minutes ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

Hi, Luca:

I stopped posting my collection on CAF some time ago.

regarding who I purchased my page from, I will confirm that it is a dealer, and I paid the full amount in cash.

I also purchased another page from the 1st mini series from another dealer in the high teens.

why did I pay so much?  Simple:

1. I think Death is the greatest character to come from the Sandman series, and nobody illustrated her features/attitude/quirkiness better than Bachalo.  He captured her essence best.

2. it would be great to own an A-level page from Sandman 8 with Death, but at what cost?

3. I really, really like the pages that I purchased and there wasn’t any comparable pages available.  As you stated in your initial email, these pages aren’t easy to come by.

1 - I totally agree 100% with you. I love dringenberg's death and I would love an example, but it is too dark and Siouxie (without the banshees). Bachalo is the definitive death artist.

2 - probably a small apartment. I know at least two collectors who owns excellent examples from that issue, but they would never sell. And I would do the same.

3 - we are talking about a seminal story and maybe less than 80 pages. If you don't count the pages without D, with D's back and with a lot of stats, maybe we have 30/40 pages.

[pestonaccio]

30 minutes ago, heartened said:

So..... for our Sandman experts, keep Bachalo in 10-20K?  Where do we put Vess and PCR?  Are those pages you are talking about in the 20-30K range A+ pages?  If so, then we put the typical A level Vess/PCR in the 10-20K range, no?

I am very curious about the response from the community. But I stand with my values, as I know what some people paid and.others are ready to pay. And how many people would kill for a ramadan page.

[NinjaSealed]

I’m general and relating to Sandman I think It depends on how specific you want to get. There are certainly standout Sandman specific issues and pages that would go nuts if they were available....but I feel like those issues or any “keys” in general could all be called A+.

I do think Jones Seasons of Mist should probably move to the 20-30k. Don’t think a true A page sellers formless than that

Bachalo Death is close on that 20k line.

Biggest thing is any A pages is going to be over 10k no matter the artist.

 

[heartened]

3 minutes ago, NinjaSealed said:

I’m general and relating to Sandman I think It depends on how specific you want to get. There are certainly standout Sandman specific issues and pages that would go nuts if they were available....but I feel like those issues or any “keys” in general could all be called A+.

I do think Jones Seasons of Mist should probably move to the 20-30k. Don’t think a true A page sellers formless than that

Bachalo Death is close on that 20k line.

Biggest thing is any A pages is going to be over 10k no matter the artist.

 

OK, will add Vess and PCR at the 10-20K, understanding that the best pages which include specific storylines are A+ pages.  Agree we want to avoid being too specific.

[The Voord]

6 hours ago, stinkininkin said:

Hari, you MUST be doing a good job and hitting pretty close to the mark considering the relatively minimal level of list members responses. I interpret a lack of pushback and debate as an indication that this thing is pretty solid. 

For me, the thread is cold and clinical (not 'pretty solid').  I get why people want to obsess over values, and compartmentalize (A level, B level, etc), especially if you're actively buying and selling at high-end numbers and I'm not knocking it, but I enjoy looking at the art . . . and "I wonder how much this thing is worth?" is a lesser consideration. 

[vodou]

7 minutes ago, The Voord said:

For me, the thread is cold and clinical (not 'pretty solid'). 

Second that.

[stinkininkin]

10 minutes ago, The Voord said:

For me, the thread is cold and clinical (not 'pretty solid').  I get why people want to obsess over values, and compartmentalize (A level, B level, etc), especially if you're actively buying and selling at high-end numbers and I'm not knocking it, but I enjoy looking at the art . . . and "I wonder how much this thing is worth?" is a lesser consideration. 

I think that's totally fair. Honestly, I think this message board has always been a bit more numbers and trends oriented than a "but I enjoy looking at the art" type of message board. For that, i go to CAF or to the Original Art Facebook group. I've been posting art on both, and the Facebook group in particular the last few days, and it's just been about showing the art and appreciation. I love it, but certainly different than a lot of what goes on here, especially with this thread, which is more nuts and bolts analytics.

[pestonaccio]

23 minutes ago, heartened said:

OK, will add Vess and PCR at the 10-20K, understanding that the best pages which include specific storylines are A+ pages.  Agree we want to avoid being too specific.

If my memory serves, Russell drew only Ramadan and Vess only the tempest and midsummers dream (and maybe a third episode).

[pestonaccio]

31 minutes ago, NinjaSealed said:

I’m general and relating to Sandman I think It depends on how specific you want to get. There are certainly standout Sandman specific issues and pages that would go nuts if they were available....but I feel like those issues or any “keys” in general could all be called A+.

I do think Jones Seasons of Mist should probably move to the 20-30k. Don’t think a true A page sellers formless than that

Bachalo Death is close on that 20k line.

Biggest thing is any A pages is going to be over 10k no matter the artist.

 

So basically we agree on everything apart from Bachalo's death.

Happy to hear that as I own a great example (which I won't sell).

[heartened]

4 minutes ago, stinkininkin said:

I think that's totally fair. Honestly, I think this message board has always been a bit more numbers and trends oriented than a "but I enjoy looking at the art" type of message board. For that, i go to CAF or to the Original Art Facebook group. I've been posting art on both, and the Facebook group in particular the last few days, and it's just been about showing the art and appreciation. I love it, but certainly different than a lot of what goes on here, especially with this thread, which is more nuts and bolts analytics.

Agree totally.  This is obviously a market analysis thread.  Just like the Overstreet Price Guide was never about loving comics.  There're lots of other threads, and I think it's a given that the majority of collectors both love and appreciate the art and also need to know values so they don't get "taken".  This thread is meant to do simply that.  Of course it's cold, it is treating it more as a commodity - but, again, only on this thread.  Pretty sure the title of the thread is not misleading

[The Voord]

4 minutes ago, stinkininkin said:

I think that's totally fair. Honestly, I think this message board has always been a bit more numbers and trends oriented than a "but I enjoy looking at the art" type of message board. For that, i go to CAF or to the Original Art Facebook group. I've been posting art on both, and the Facebook group in particular the last few days, and it's just been about showing the art and appreciation. I love it, but certainly different than a lot of what goes on here, especially with this thread, which is more nuts and bolts analytics.

Absolutely, and there's room for both.  Could be that as this forum is an off-shoot of slabbed comics, it does lean towards values and 'A' level pages, etc . . . the same way desirable titles and their grades are of pivotal interest to the comic-book side here.

[The Voord]

2 minutes ago, heartened said:

Agree totally.  This is obviously a market analysis thread.  Just like the Overstreet Price Guide was never about loving comics.  There're lots of other threads, and I think it's a given that the majority of collectors both love and appreciate the art and also need to know values so they don't get "taken".  This thread is meant to do simply that.  Of course it's cold, it is treating it more as a commodity - but, again, only on this thread.  Pretty sure the title of the thread is not misleading

No problem with that or what you're trying to do here, Hari, I was just addressing Scott's thoughts as to why the possible lack of enthusiasm by a wider audience on this thread.

Terry Doyle