Part 2: A-Level Panel Page Valuations by Artist/Run 7 7

[heartened]

46 minutes ago, pestonaccio said:

Sorry, but I don't agree with the final list. Ok for Bachalo's death in the 10/20k range, but the Vess Shakespeare (2 out of 3 stories by Vess) and Ramadan (only PCR) are over 20k. I know it for sure as I know what collectors paid. And I don't own any, so no personal interest.

I'm happy to raise them if there no contrary opinions.  Anyone else want to chime in?  I am not an expert on this one.

[Dayzen]

I’ve been trying to get a Miracleman page and also was looking at bisley ABC warriors. From what I’ve seen, 

Davis Miracleman is 5-10k at least?

Bisley ABC’s are 5-10k for really nice examples

What about other Miracleman artists? Thoughts and opinions

[heartened]

3 minutes ago, Dayzen said:

I’ve been trying to get a Miracleman page and also was looking at bisley ABC warriors. From what I’ve seen, 

Davis Miracleman is 5-10k at least?

Bisley ABC’s are 5-10k for really nice examples

What about other Miracleman artists? Thoughts and opinions

I know the MM market very well.  Would agree on Davis at 5-10K.  Leach and Totleben are already on the list.  Which other artists are you talking about?  Feel free to make suggestions on artist and price range.  I will add Davis to the list at that level.

Let's hear comments on the Bis market.

[heartened]

6 hours ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

Now that we’ve got prices on Sandman pages all settled, let’s discuss adding Ron Frenz ASM pages to the list.

I think A level pages should be listed in the $3-5K category (the pages where he channeled Ditko as opposed to his later work on the title where he channeled Sal Buscema), with the exception of ASM 252 pages.  They should be in the high side of $10-20K.

 

Added Frenz to the list at the 3-5K level.

[Dayzen]

20 minutes ago, heartened said:

I know the MM market very well.  Would agree on Davis at 5-10K.  Leach and Totleben are already on the list.  Which other artists are you talking about?  Feel free to make suggestions on artist and price range.  I will add Davis to the list at that level.

Let's hear comments on the Bis market.

Buckingham 3-5k?

[pestonaccio]

21 minutes ago, Dayzen said:

Buckingham 3-5k?

Yes, and yes Davis 5/10 on MM.

[heartened]

1 hour ago, heartened said:

I'm happy to raise them if there no contrary opinions.  Anyone else want to chime in?  I am not an expert on this one.

I moved them up based on your thoughts.  

[mtlevy1]

8 hours ago, heartened said:

Thanks Chuck.  Yeah key issues are basically A++ pages where values would be impossible to ascertain.  My guess is you can probably at least double the A page value when talking about those pages.  And you can probably extrapolate most covers at 4X to 6X the price of an A page.  These are just my guesses to get people in a reasonable range, but I'm interested in hearing other peoples' thoughts.

 

Just for kicks:

 

Covers          4 to 6X

A++               2 to 3X

A+                 1.5 to 2X

A                   1X 

B                   0.60 to 0.8X

C                   0.25 to 0.50X

Great work on the list.

I do feel this is a key table and could be posted with the page 1 list...so some feedback on the lower end of the spectrum.

1. I feel the B range is a bit high

2. I like the low end of C at 0.25 but 0.5 is too high

So a refined proposal - someone could actually use public results to 'grade' a few pages and create these guidelines but I just took a few examples in my head (including Gene's favorite BWS Conan)

B = 0.50 - 0.75

C = 0.25 - 0.40

Of course, I don't remember how we defined a B or C page...

Since no "D", I assume a C is essentially a placeholder page that the collector is actively working to 'upgrade" one day while a B is a nice representative example?

Also, this is a pretty great list already and I'd recommend we not try to call out specific issues, etc - it will be too difficult to maintain and less accurate.  Even A+ versus A++ is a bit much and I fear it may dilute that an A page should be a special keeper page - perhaps we need to define an A page a bit more tightly...I feel it would be the top 2 - 3 pages in a typical book...it is not an A minus.  That said, if we can define A+ vs. A++ I guess it is just one row in a table.

Cool stuff

Mark

 

[heartened]

17 minutes ago, mtlevy1 said:

Great work on the list.

I do feel this is a key table and could be posted with the page 1 list...so some feedback on the lower end of the spectrum.

1. I feel the B range is a bit high

2. I like the low end of C at 0.25 but 0.5 is too high

So a refined proposal - someone could actually use public results to 'grade' a few pages and create these guidelines but I just took a few examples in my head (including Gene's favorite BWS Conan)

B = 0.50 - 0.75

C = 0.25 - 0.40

Of course, I don't remember how we defined a B or C page...

Since no "D", I assume a C is essentially a placeholder page that the collector is actively working to 'upgrade" one day while a B is a nice representative example?

Also, this is a pretty great list already and I'd recommend we not try to call out specific issues, etc - it will be too difficult to maintain and less accurate.  Even A+ versus A++ is a bit much and I fear it may dilute that an A page should be a special keeper page - perhaps we need to define an A page a bit more tightly...I feel it would be the top 2 - 3 pages in a typical book...it is not an A minus.  That said, if we can define A+ vs. A++ I guess it is just one row in a table.

Cool stuff

Mark

 

Thanks Mark!  I'll add it to the original post after we flesh out more.  I think as originally envisioned, we thought A was a special keeper page, such as top 20% of that artist/title.  A+ would be top 5% or so.  The A++ really should only be historic first appearances or other importance that in some respects transcends the artist/run.  In most cases these would be very important books as Chuck mentioned (first appearance of major character).  We could also simply get rid of A++ as they really do transcend the artist/title, and that would solve your issues about watering down the A panel page.  In that case, we could just say Covers/Historic Pages for the first category and make the range 3X to 6X.  Like this:

Covers or Pages that Transcend Artist/Run (eg. first appearances)        3 to 6X

A+      Exceptional Page (top 5%)                                                             1.5 to 2X

A        Special Keeper Page (top 20%)                                                     1X 

B        Nice Representative Example (top 50%)                                       0.50 to 0.75X

C        Placeholder / Might Upgrade (bottom 50%)                                  0.25 to 0.40X

[heartened]

3 hours ago, pestonaccio said:

Yes, and yes Davis 5/10 on MM.

I bet A pages by Davis on MM would be over 10K these days, but I'm fine leaving it at 5-10K.  What do others think?

[Dayzen]

Don’t forget Hewlett Tank Girl pages 5-10k.

[Chaykin Stevens]

I think Garry Leach and Alan Davis's Miracleman might be more accuratley describrd under the origunal name as Marvelman.  If Leach is 20-30k and Davis is 5-10k, what do pages pencilled by Davis and inked by Leach from Warrior #6 & 7 go for?

[heartened]

17 minutes ago, Chaykin Stevens said:

I think Garry Leach and Alan Davis's Miracleman might be more accuratley describrd under the origunal name as Marvelman.  If Leach is 20-30k and Davis is 5-10k, what do pages pencilled by Davis and inked by Leach from Warrior #6 & 7 go for?

Ha ha, they could be listed Marvelman or Miracleman since they were reprinted, but I see your point.  As to your point about Leach inks, I think some of that will have to be extrapolated.  We are trying not to be too detailed on any one title as those nuances people should still have to research.  On a related note, I had been thinking of putting the A pages from Davis in the 10-20K range, as I don't think you can get an early A page by him for less than 10K now (they are also large art mainly), so that would also address your concern regarding Leach inks.

 

[jjonahjameson11]

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the Comic Art Collecting Panel of experts (Will, Mike, Glen) haven't made any comments nor provided feedback to this thread?  

[heartened]

18 minutes ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the Comic Art Collecting Panel of experts (Will, Mike, Glen) haven't made any comments nor provided feedback to this thread?  

They may agree with the prices, or feel they are close enough.  I know a lot of people who have sent me thanks privately for updating, but haven't commented.  But I agree would be nice to get their opinion, even if it is that it looks generally good.  But most importantly definitely want to know about sales that may change the tiers on some of the artists, if we are off.

[vodou]

2 hours ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

the Comic Art Collecting Panel of experts (Will, Mike, Glen)

Just my opinion but: HUGE conflict of interest.

[heartened]

8 hours ago, vodou said:

Just my opinion but: HUGE conflict of interest.

I don't know about that.  We make the consensus here, and all information is helpful and can be integrated.  And they certainly are a wealth of information because it's their day job (and yes I realize that means they may want some art to be high so they can sell it and some art low so they can buy it).  But better to have the info than not, and I understand that a lot of it is trades and cash/trades.  

[vodou]

1 hour ago, heartened said:

But better to have the info than not, and I understand that a lot of it is trades and cash/trades. 

So it's mud. But let's use it anyway?

Hari, your list. Do with it what you will. I have no issue with you, your approach, or the list you're maintaining. But I will always call them as I see them. This post and previous you quoted: exactly as I see them. Now others can read the minority report and find their own balance

[heartened]

1 hour ago, vodou said:

So it's mud. But let's use it anyway?

Hari, your list. Do with it what you will. I have no issue with you, your approach, or the list you're maintaining. But I will always call them as I see them. This post and previous you quoted: exactly as I see them. Now others can read the minority report and find their own balance

Absolutely!  I'm just saying let's let people post then yes call them out if they seem high or low or whatever.  

Also, guys, this isn't my list.  I'm just the person who updates it.  Any concerns with the list or the process feel free to message me privately too.  I want it to be accurate and everyone to feel it is our list as a group.

Edited January 7, 2021 by heartened

[stinkininkin]

3 hours ago, vodou said:

So it's mud. But let's use it anyway?

Hari, your list. Do with it what you will. I have no issue with you, your approach, or the list you're maintaining. But I will always call them as I see them. This post and previous you quoted: exactly as I see them. Now others can read the minority report and find their own balance

Just curious. What do you think of this list, it's general accuracy or lack thereof and it's usefulness to collectors, at least in the short term? You don't have to answer...just wondering, and you might have your own intuitive price guide based on your own bias and experience and thus irrelevant (to you), but I'd be interested in feedback if you were so inclined.