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Part 2: A-Level Panel Page Valuations by Artist/Run
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260 posts in this topic

25 minutes ago, The Voord said:

No problem with that or what you're trying to do here, Hari, I was just addressing Scott's thoughts as to why the possible lack of enthusiasm by a wider audience on this thread.

Terry Doyle

Oh, hey Terry, how are you?  I don't know all the member handles (so the real names help LOL!).  Absolutely.  I think his point though was that if the values were way off, we would be hearing about it.  That's probably true.

This is the sort of thread that should go quiet until some new price point has to be adjusted.  We see a flurry of activity now bc it is new, but I don't expect this to be a thread that is "active" every day, nor should it be.  It's more of a price guide that should be pinned on the front page.  Speaking of that, how does that happen?

Edited by heartened
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1 minute ago, heartened said:

Oh, hey Terry, how are you?  I don't know all the member handles (so the real names help LOL!).  Absolutely.  I think his point though was that if the values were way off, we would be hearing about it.  That's probably true.

This is the sort of thread that show go quiet until some new price point has to be adjusted.  We see a flurry of activity now bc it is new, but I don't expect this to be a thread that is "active" every day, nor should it be.  It's more of a price guide that should be pinned on the front page.  Speaking of that, how does that happen?

I'm fine Hari, thanks, hope the same for you and yours (thumbsu 

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I mentioned this to Hari the other evening, and as someone who's been buying up a bunch of stuff over the past year, I think placing these values makes it difficult of value v. what you'd have to pay to get it.  Although A level panel pages do come up in auction, it's certainly not consistent for many of these examples, and I'd wager that privately to get really good examples in the current market you'd have to be willing to over pay these values, at least a little.  If there were people selling at these numbers listed here for many of these pieces, I'd happily spend away.

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39 minutes ago, Foolkiller said:

I mentioned this to Hari the other evening, and as someone who's been buying up a bunch of stuff over the past year, I think placing these values makes it difficult of value v. what you'd have to pay to get it.  Although A level panel pages do come up in auction, it's certainly not consistent for many of these examples, and I'd wager that privately to get really good examples in the current market you'd have to be willing to over pay these values, at least a little.  If there were people selling at these numbers listed here for many of these pieces, I'd happily spend away.

Value and what you have to pay to pry something out are two separate things.  If enough people pry them out, then the value moves up.  How it's always been :)

Edited by heartened
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3 hours ago, heartened said:

Also, I want to clarify that the range doesn't mean the every artist/title in that bracket starts at the bottom of the range and goes up to the top of the range; rather it means that the A page will on average fall somewhere in that range.

Yup, exactly how I've approached it too.

 

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Thanks for putting this together.

I don’t know about Byrne X-men being above $60k.  
None of those recent pages from Claremont on Heritage broke $50k.  
And there are all of those pages from ComicConnect that haven’t sold.

I would estimate A-level is probably right around $50k.  
Of course ‘A’ is in the eye of the beholder.

There’s also the ‘Wolverine tax’ so A-level with Wolverine fighting with claws out is probably more than A without Wolverine.  

-Will

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3 hours ago, dspair said:

Thanks for putting this together.

I don’t know about Byrne X-men being above $60k.  
None of those recent pages from Claremont on Heritage broke $50k.  
And there are all of those pages from ComicConnect that haven’t sold.

I would estimate A-level is probably right around $50k.  
Of course ‘A’ is in the eye of the beholder.

There’s also the ‘Wolverine tax’ so A-level with Wolverine fighting with claws out is probably more than A without Wolverine.  

-Will

I was wondering about this too.  Is it the A+ pages that are 60K+?  If so then we should drop down to 40K+.  This is the same reasoning for the BWS X pages staying at 40K+.  I worry that it's really the A+ pages hitting the higher bracket.  Also, in the case of BWS, there are only two sales and one is a splash (that is better than most covers, and became a cover of the TPB), and the other was a private deal but was all-cash by report.  Let's get some more consensus in either direction on these two.

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Also here is Felix's response to how to price Silver Surfer Black right now:

"There was a frenzy on the secondary market after we sold the art that I really thought would have subsided by now. It hasn't. It only seems to have gotten worse. I've never seen anything like this before. It baffles even me.

Having said that...it still feels too new to include here. The people who are hunting it know what it's worth to them. Let's wait a bit, at least for a public sale or two to solidify things for everyone.

I did just broker a deal for a cover, and once that deal is done, I will make the purchase price public. You guys can then decide if that means anything relative to page values."

Edited by heartened
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Correct me if I am wrong, but I didn't see Kirby's Strange Tales (the Human Torch stories) on the list. There is one from ST #114 currently up for auction at Heritage so I suppose I can just wait to see how that turns out.

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17 minutes ago, hmendryk said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but I didn't see Kirby's Strange Tales (the Human Torch stories) on the list. There is one from ST #114 currently up for auction at Heritage so I suppose I can just wait to see how that turns out.

Hi Harry!  We can add them in.  The ST 101 pages seem to be hitting lower end of 10-20K.  I can put them there as they are solid A pages due to the importance of the book.

Hari Naidu

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44 minutes ago, heartened said:

I was wondering about this too.  Is it the A+ pages that are 60K+?  If so then we should drop down to 40K+.  This is the same reasoning for the BWS X pages staying at 40K+.  I worry that it's really the A+ pages hitting the higher bracket.  Also, in the case of BWS, there are only two sales and one is a splash (that is better than most covers, and became a cover of the TPB), and the other was a private deal but was all-cash by report.  Let's get some more consensus in either direction on these two.

I'm going to add a 50K+ tier and drop Byrne UXM there and push up BWS X up there.  LMK what you guys think.  Still too premature on the BWS or do we think A pages truly have multiple takers at that range?  Also, are we happy with A Watchmen pages being 40K+ or should they move to 50K+?

Edited by heartened
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Now that we’ve got prices on Sandman pages all settled, let’s discuss adding Ron Frenz ASM pages to the list.

I think A level pages should be listed in the $3-5K category (the pages where he channeled Ditko as opposed to his later work on the title where he channeled Sal Buscema), with the exception of ASM 252 pages.  They should be in the high side of $10-20K.

 

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Does anyone have actual market data on Miller 300 pages at the over 40k range? I bought one 7 or 8 years ago when Mitch was making them available for 20-25k (can't remember exactly), but I don't really recall seeing any secondary market activity that would indicate that the demand is at that over 40k mark. They are beautiful and huge (basically double page spreads), but I'm looking to see if the 40k number is just one that 'feels' right, or if there's actual evidence?

Edited by stinkininkin
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Early Trimpe/Perlin G.I. Joe pages (1-8) and Springer Transformers (1-4) have now breached the $3-5k range for A level pages.  

Ona separate note, I think there should be a separate part of the thread dedicated to the "exception" key issues.  People are noting certain issues that go for more like ASM #252.  I think that can be said of many artists' run above.  A pages from ASM #129, X-Men GS #1, X-Men #94, TOD #10, WWBN #32, X-Men #1... all command a premium because they are key issues.  So, perhaps they shouldn't be counted or noted differently.

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47 minutes ago, stinkininkin said:

Does anyone have actual market data on Miller 300 pages at the over 40k range? I bought one 7 or 8 years ago when Mitch was making them available for 20-25k (can't remember exactly), but I don't really recall seeing any secondary market activity that would indicate that the demand is at that over 40k mark. They are beautiful and huge (basically double page spreads), but I'm looking to see if the 40k number is just one that 'feels' right, or if there's actual evidence?

Mine was part of a larger deal but valued at 50K and it was about 4 years ago.  I would consider it an A page.  I do think the A pages from the book are over 40K if not 50K , with the remainder of the book in the 30-40K range.  It's a small book with a limited # of spreads as each spread is 2 pages really, so I don't think it's hard to believe that the top 20% of the book would be over 40K when the B and C pages were sold for 20-25K over half a decade ago.

 

I was talking to Joseph M this morning about the list.  A challenge is that this list is about values, which is a mix of bonafide sales and also what one feels they would have to offer to get a certain page.  Hence, value, not price.  Some art rarely trades hands (like 300, DKR), but we can guess what it will go for if it hit the market.  We haven't seen any DKR A pages in a while, but we know where we have to put them on this list.  KJ also went through about half of decade of zero sales, but then no surprise that they doubled in value when one hit the market.  If we only concentrate on sales, then we are unable to appreciate escalating value over time in the absence of sales.

Edited by heartened
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34 minutes ago, comiconxion said:

Early Trimpe/Perlin G.I. Joe pages (1-8) and Springer Transformers (1-4) have now breached the $3-5k range for A level pages.  

Ona separate note, I think there should be a separate part of the thread dedicated to the "exception" key issues.  People are noting certain issues that go for more like ASM #252.  I think that can be said of many artists' run above.  A pages from ASM #129, X-Men GS #1, X-Men #94, TOD #10, WWBN #32, X-Men #1... all command a premium because they are key issues.  So, perhaps they shouldn't be counted or noted differently.

Thanks Chuck.  Yeah key issues are basically A++ pages where values would be impossible to ascertain.  My guess is you can probably at least double the A page value when talking about those pages.  And you can probably extrapolate most covers at 4X to 6X the price of an A page.  These are just my guesses to get people in a reasonable range, but I'm interested in hearing other peoples' thoughts.

 

Just for kicks:

 

Covers          4 to 6X

A++               2 to 3X

A+                 1.5 to 2X

A                   1X 

B                   0.60 to 0.8X

C                   0.25 to 0.50X

Edited by heartened
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1 hour ago, stinkininkin said:

Does anyone have actual market data on Miller 300 pages at the over 40k range? I bought one 7 or 8 years ago when Mitch was making them available for 20-25k (can't remember exactly), but I don't really recall seeing any secondary market activity that would indicate that the demand is at that over 40k mark. They are beautiful and huge (basically double page spreads), but I'm looking to see if the 40k number is just one that 'feels' right, or if there's actual evidence?

The wrap-around cover to #4 sold for $42K in April 2020 @ HA.  

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5 hours ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

Now that we’ve got prices on Sandman pages all settled

 

Sorry, but I don't agree with the final list. Ok for Bachalo's death in the 10/20k range, but the Vess Shakespeare (2 out of 3 stories by Vess) and Ramadan (only PCR) are over 20k. I know it for sure as I know what collectors paid. And I don't own any, so no personal interest.

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