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First Appearances According to CGC
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Started by Sean Roberts,

78 posts in this topic

Sean Roberts

Sean Roberts

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Posted

Although I have been collecting for a few years I still consider myself a novice when it comes to overall comic knowledge. One issue I am having is First appearances. Most are not debatable but some are including Wolverine. Regardless of anyone's opinion the money is on 181 and that it not debatable. For other book that do not get as much attention when their first appearances are debated a novice like me never really gets an answer. Specifically, I am looking for the first appearance of Mace Windu in comics. I have used several tools. (key collector, comicbookrealm, facebook, ect) but came up with different answers. 1) Does anyone here know the first appearance? 2) Does cgc have an official list of what they recognize as first appearances?

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Mikey C

Mikey C

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No CGC does not give out an official list. They're really inconsistent.

Obviously the market has landed on #181 as the most important book. It's clearly his 1st appearance in a story. But it's undeniable that #180 is his true first full appearance. Wolverine is shown in full costume, with name reveal AND multiple speaking bubbles.

Same with ASM #299. The $$ has landed on #300 but #299 is Venom's true first full. Full costume reveal, name reveal and speaking bubbles.

See Batman #89 or TMNT #51 for TRUE cameos. #89 you only see Punchline's chin. TMNT #51 you only see Jennika as a generic ninja in a couple panels and her mask isn't removed til #52. 

Star Wars 1sts are probably the most confusing with early Marvel / IDW / current Marvel and so many different characters and stories.

Edited by Mikey C
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MR SigS

MR SigS

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7 hours ago, Mikey C said:

No CGC does not give out an official list. They're really inconsistent.

Obviously the market has landed on #181 as the most important book. It's clearly his 1st appearance in a story. But it's undeniable that #180 is his true first full appearance. Wolverine is shown in full costume, with name reveal AND multiple speaking bubbles.

Same with ASM #299. The $$ has landed on #300 but #299 is Venom's true first full. Full costume reveal, name reveal and speaking bubbles.

See Batman #89 or TMNT #51 for TRUE cameos. #89 you only see Punchline's chin. TMNT #51 you only see Jennika as a generic ninja in a couple panels and her mask isn't removed til #52. 

Star Wars 1sts are probably the most confusing with early Marvel / IDW / current Marvel and so many different characters and stories.

And Carnage in ASM #360/361.

Just to add to the confusion; Spidey 2099's 1st appearance is in the preview in ASM #365, but the 1st appearance of Rick Grimes is not in Capes #1/Agents #6 because it's in a preview. :screwy:

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Lazyboy

Lazyboy

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7 hours ago, Mikey C said:

Obviously the market has landed on #181 as the most important book. It's clearly his 1st appearance in a story. But it's undeniable that #180 is his true first full appearance. Wolverine is shown in full costume, with name reveal AND multiple speaking bubbles.

Same with ASM #299. The $$ has landed on #300 but #299 is Venom's true first full. Full costume reveal, name reveal and speaking bubbles.

lol

:facepalm:

:screwy:

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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

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Back in the mid to late 70's and into the 80's, as Wolverine's popularity began to grow, due in part to his monthly appearance in the Uncanny X-Men, people began to seek out Wolverine's first appearance to... and I know this is difficult for some of you to comprehend, but... they sought it out to READ it. To read about it. 

No seriously, they wanted to READ it.

See, back then there was no trade paperback availability. The story wouldn't be reprinted for the first time until 1986 in comic book form and not in a trade paperback until 2004's 'Best of Wolverine'. 

People were curious about the origin's of the character and not just frothing at the mouth over how much they could make off of it. 

So they bought the first STORY he actually was featured in.

That's how people collected back when this hobby wasn't some bizarre form of a Ponzi scheme. 

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Mikey C

Mikey C

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15 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

lol

:facepalm:

:screwy:

Venom's hands show up in #298 as a cameo. Have you seen the final page of #299? Obviously we're not going to agree but it's a full reveal of the character, IMO a 1st full. The image from the last page of #299 has been used on posters, towels, t-shrits, recent variant covers for Cate's run. Super iconic. So far from just a cameo.

#300 is Venom's first full story and obviously the market has landed on this book as his most important.

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THE_BEYONDER

THE_BEYONDER

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1 hour ago, Prince Namor said:

Back in the mid to late 70's and into the 80's, as Wolverine's popularity began to grow, due in part to his monthly appearance in the Uncanny X-Men, people began to seek out Wolverine's first appearance to... and I know this is difficult for some of you to comprehend, but... they sought it out to READ it. To read about it. 

No seriously, they wanted to READ it.

See, back then there was no trade paperback availability. The story wouldn't be reprinted for the first time until 1986 in comic book form and not in a trade paperback until 2004's 'Best of Wolverine'. 

People were curious about the origin's of the character and not just frothing at the mouth over how much they could make off of it. 

So they bought the first STORY he actually was featured in.

That's how people collected back when this hobby wasn't some bizarre form of a Ponzi scheme. 

I first read Hulk 180 & 181 in this book from 1978

BAC727DA-D1BB-402B-9A9E-3656EFE2C1E5.jpeg

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valiantman

valiantman

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"1st Appearance" and "Most Valuable" do not have to be the same book.

Obviously, people focus on the "most valuable" and claim it's the book to have... and if they were both available for the original cover price, sure... get that money.

But if you want the 1st Appearance, you have to decide what a 1st Appearance means to you.  A character appearing on the last page of a story and announcing their name... is that enough for a 1st Appearance?  That's up to you.

A character appearing on the last page of a story and announcing their name -versus- the next issue containing a full story about that new character... which is worth more?  That's up to the market.

Edited by valiantman
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HuddyBee

HuddyBee

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On 1/11/2021 at 9:51 AM, Mikey C said:

#180 is his true first full appearance

Why do people feel the need to suddenly reevaluate the terms, "cameo" and "full" as if they haven't been around for over half a century?

Edited by HuddyBee
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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

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1 hour ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

I first read Hulk 180 & 181 in this book from 1978

BAC727DA-D1BB-402B-9A9E-3656EFE2C1E5.jpeg

Yes, in Canada, after the first appearance in their version of the comic (1974), it was reprinted in that format in 1978. 

Also before the 1986 American reprint are versions in France, Norway, Germany, and Sweden.

Didn't mean to overlook those markets around the world, but at the time I didn't have any access to them. Most American readers would have to wait over a decade if they couldn't find a copy!

But...That's a very cool book! Thanks for sharing!

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Jeffro.

Jeffro.

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1 hour ago, Mikey C said:

Venom's hands show up in #298 as a cameo. Have you seen the final page of #299? Obviously we're not going to agree but it's a full reveal of the character, IMO a 1st full. The image from the last page of #299 has been used on posters, towels, t-shrits, recent variant covers for Cate's run. Super iconic. So far from just a cameo.

#300 is Venom's first full story and obviously the market has landed on this book as his most important.

Fandom disagrees with you. If you want to consider those examples to be first full then go for it and who knows, maybe someday collectors will recognize that. Right now they don't and the market certainly doesn't.

 

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theCapraAegagrus

theCapraAegagrus

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By this definition:

Quote

Noun. 1. first appearance - the act of beginning something new; "they looked forward to the debut of their new product line" debut, introduction, launching, unveiling, entry. commencement, start, beginning - the act of starting something; "he was responsible for the beginning of negotiations"

A brief appearance at the end of a comic book would not be a "first appearance". 2c

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Juno Beach

Juno Beach

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5 hours ago, Prince Namor said:

Back in the mid to late 70's and into the 80's, as Wolverine's popularity began to grow, due in part to his monthly appearance in the Uncanny X-Men, people began to seek out Wolverine's first appearance to... and I know this is difficult for some of you to comprehend, but... they sought it out to READ it. To read about it. 

No seriously, they wanted to READ it.

See, back then there was no trade paperback availability. The story wouldn't be reprinted for the first time until 1986 in comic book form and not in a trade paperback until 2004's 'Best of Wolverine'. 

People were curious about the origin's of the character and not just frothing at the mouth over how much they could make off of it. 

So they bought the first STORY he actually was featured in.

That's how people collected back when this hobby wasn't some bizarre form of a Ponzi scheme. 

Without the final page of #180 that story would be incomplete. (shrug)

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Juno Beach

Juno Beach

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11 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

What story would be incomplete?

If they were wanting to read about wolverine they should start with #180 to get the full story. 

Edited by Juno Beach
clarification
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Juno Beach

Juno Beach

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4 hours ago, silversurfer275 said:

mace windus 1st in comics  is phantom menace number 3

Some places say that's a cameo. Now I have to dig it out to see what kind of cameo it is (body part, talking/not talking, just in background, etc...)

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