Converting Curmudgeonly Collectors to Current Comic Creators 3 3

[Jeffro.]

27 minutes ago, awakeintheashes said:

1 hour ago, Jeffro. said:

Manhattan Projects, The Sixth Gun,

Two amazing books. I wish Manhattan Projects had lasted longer, but Hickman is a talented and in-demand writer.

My only issue with Manhattan Projects was that Hickman's pacing was too fast. He would start something and the resolve it so quickly my head was spinning. I also don't like writers who drag things out too long but Hickman was at the other end of that. I wish he could have paced a bit slower.

[bc]

36 minutes ago, Yes I Canada said:

That's the dumbest reason not to buy Moderns I've ever heard.

This may seem to be a "dumb" reason to you, but I agree. Many of us "old guys" grew up with newsprint and it triggers a sense of nostalgia that modern comics do not.

Not gonna comment on the artwork, to me that is a generational thing as well.

Plus the cost per book vs the value proposition. I can pick some Silver & Bronze beaters from the budget bin and get hours of entertainment value or pay several bucks for a single book that may take 5 minutes to get thru.

For many of us long-term collectors, we are trying to manage the size of our collection; many are downsizing or focusing on a few collecting goals (see all the threads about "key collectors" vs "run collectors").

Collect what makes you happy!

-bc

 

 

[comicginger1789]

48 minutes ago, Yes I Canada said:

Some of the best series in comic history came out in this time period.

That's the dumbest reason not to buy Moderns I've ever heard.

Enlighten me!

And the feel is not the sole reason. But it plays a factor. It just doesn't feel like a comic to me. Plus to know that a lot of the art process is digitized now factors in.

[goldust40]

8 hours ago, Jasonmorris1000000 said:

This story made me laugh pretty hard.  I recommend that any Silver Age Spidey collector read it.

I'm an oldie who collects GA but on the other hand I am a big fan of Bagge (must get this series - how did I miss it?) Powell, Gray, and Palmiotti.

Some of the recommendations I'm not keen on for aesthetic reasons, such as the odd bit of artwork that reminds me of early 90s Image, but as long as there's a variance in art and storytelling then there'll always be something for me on the comic rack. The All-Star Western and Shadow series looked good, as did some of the Hulk stuff.

To be fair though I stopped my standing order five years ago as too much product, and there was so much of it, was samey while the visuals trumped the storytelling, which always came first when I started reading American comics (the early 70s). Comics should evolve but storytelling and characterization are more important than great artistry.

[comicginger1789]

44 minutes ago, Yes I Canada said:

Already tried that, didn't work. At least you own the fact that you are a comic snob 

I respect your opinion, although I disagree being labelled a snob. Never have I said that my way was better. Nor do I call other people stupid or dumb for what they read, how they read or why they collect. I may disagree and it may not be for me....that is my opinion.

I acknowledge that there are plenty of people who love Liefeld and 90s art and current books. There are several I currently read and enjoy immensely. But overall, my preference is older newsprint copies of Marvel books from the 60s through the 80s. I am not interested in a debate because all of it is an art form. Your opinion will be different from mine. And I am fine with that and open to reading stuff people suggest. If you pose some of your favourites from the 90s, perhaps I will dive in. Perhaps not. I don't think everyone needs to like certain things. People like what they like. If they want to miss out on stuff, hey thats on me. I have plenty of stuff I do like to chase that will last me a lifetime.

[piper]

1 hour ago, awakeintheashes said:

Two amazing books. I wish Manhattan Projects had lasted longer, but Hickman is a talented and in-demand writer. The Sixth Gun was top notch in both art and story. It did not sell (3,000-5,000/issue) well but continued for 40-50 issues and had a few spinoffs. I recommend that book to everyone I talk to about comics.

A few writers worth checking out are Brian K Vaughn, Jonathan Hickman, Cullen Bunn. I thought Snyder's work on Batman and Swamp Thing during the New 52 was great. Jeff Lemire has also put out quality work (Animal Man and Sweet Tooth). There are others out there, but these are some of the top writers I can think of at the moment that might appeal to curmudgeon collectors. 

Also... Ellis, Gillen, Rucka, Remender...

[awakeintheashes]

1 minute ago, piper said:

Also... Ellis, Gillen, Rucka, Remender...

100% agree. A lot of great writers out at the moment. Big fan of Rucka and Remender. My coffee deprived brain omitted them. Remender's work on Uncanny X-Force was top notch and Rucka on Lazarus was great. Ed Brubaker is another top notch talent. 

[comicginger1789]

1 hour ago, bc said:

This may seem to be a "dumb" reason to you, but I agree. Many of us "old guys" grew up with newsprint and it triggers a sense of nostalgia that modern comics do not.

Not gonna comment on the artwork, to me that is a generational thing as well.

Plus the cost per book vs the value proposition. I can pick some Silver & Bronze beaters from the budget bin and get hours of entertainment value or pay several bucks for a single book that may take 5 minutes to get thru.

For many of us long-term collectors, we are trying to manage the size of our collection; many are downsizing or focusing on a few collecting goals (see all the threads about "key collectors" vs "run collectors").

Collect what makes you happy!

-bc

 

 

This says it all.

People who collect modern stuff and read modern stuff and like modern art/stories are not "bad comic people". They just, for the most part, have different tastes than me. It is the diversity of this hobby that I enjoy but I lean towards the older comics. That being said, I pay attention enough so as to not miss out on generational talents and works that come up and are heavily praised. If a lot of people are reading and enjoying, I will give it a read for sure. But traditionally, I only find a handful of new titles or stories per year worth my time. 

[awakeintheashes]

1 hour ago, Jeffro. said:

My only issue with Manhattan Projects was that Hickman's pacing was too fast. He would start something and the resolve it so quickly my head was spinning. I also don't like writers who drag things out too long but Hickman was at the other end of that. I wish he could have paced a bit slower.

I can see that. 

Circling back around to The Sixth Gun, I thought the art and the writing matched perfectly. A great supernatural western that sucked me into the world they built and left me wanting more.

[comicginger1789]

1 minute ago, awakeintheashes said:

100% agree. A lot of great writers out at the moment. Big fan of Rucka and Remender. My coffee deprived brain omitted them. Remender's work on Uncanny X-Force was top notch and Rucka on Lazarus was great. Ed Brubaker is another top notch talent. 

Lazarus is a book I want to get into. I feel like there are a lot of series outside of Marvel and DC that pique my interest waaaaay more. Like sure, Thor and Hulk and Venom and Carnage and Silver Surfer Black and 3 Jokers...they were all fine but they are standard superhero stuff that has been done in some capacity. Nothing there has blown my mind (although Immortal Hulk did get me to read a character I never liked, which is an impressive feat for the writers).

But the the independent series that are getting praise (and I few that I only recently got around to acquiring and reading like Sex Criminals and Wytches) were very enjoyable, both as stories and artistically. 

Now if only they would print them on newsprint

[Jasonmorris1000000]

2 hours ago, Yes I Canada said:

It's not the art for me, it's the writer. I would recommend some of the best from the past 30 years. Alan Moore, Garth Ennis, Grant Morrison, Warren Ellis, Mark Millar, Kurt Busiek, Mark Waid, Peter David, Geoff Johns, etc.  I could go on...

I really enjoy Grant Morrison’s storytelling too, especially his run of Batman books. There’s a thread called “Who’s Batman’s #2 Enemy (after the Joker of course)” and someone wrote Grant Morrison so obviously not everyone agrees with me.  One of these days I’d like to reread his X-men comics.  I’ve only read them once 10 years ago and thought they were great at the time.

[rgtichy]

I'm much happier with modern age books that are offering me a new story, with original characters, and preferably one that is not based on being jaded about superheroes.  And DC and Marvel have rebooted and remixed their characters so many times it is hard not to be jaded if you've been around for 50+ years and the last 7 reboots of a character happened in the last 30 years.

(And, as both an aside that is an example, but from the movies, who wasn't annoyed when Sony rebooted the Spider-Man movies right after the Raimi-Maguire trilogy?  I mean 3 "issues," and a reboot of the origin story is "#4" ?)

I see the start of the demise of the stories right in the moment many of us were crashing into comics, too.  Frank Miller is jaded, was jaded, and burned down many long comics legacies to create his short runs on many titles.  They looked cool, and being jaded was so hot in 1990, but it's not fun to read that vibe for years and years afterward.  The Silver Age rebooted superheroes after the first 20+ years.  The Modern Age reboots "your superhero" every time a new writer takes over.

I'm not sure I agree with the posters talking about the smell and feel of newsprint, directly, but I think they also see that the new books are glossy and it's often not just the paper.

So, that all probably keeps me in the "Curmudgeon Camp" but I don't want to be.

[Jasonmorris1000000]

17 minutes ago, rgtichy said:

I'm much happier with modern age books that are offering me a new story, with original characters, and preferably one that is not based on being jaded about superheroes.  And DC and Marvel have rebooted and remixed their characters so many times it is hard not to be jaded if you've been around for 50+ years and the last 7 reboots of a character happened in the last 30 years.

(And, as both an aside that is an example, but from the movies, who wasn't annoyed when Sony rebooted the Spider-Man movies right after the Raimi-Maguire trilogy?  I mean 3 "issues," and a reboot of the origin story is "#4" ?)

I see the start of the demise of the stories right in the moment many of us were crashing into comics, too.  Frank Miller is jaded, was jaded, and burned down many long comics legacies to create his short runs on many titles.  They looked cool, and being jaded was so hot in 1990, but it's not fun to read that vibe for years and years afterward.  The Silver Age rebooted superheroes after the first 20+ years.  The Modern Age reboots "your superhero" every time a new writer takes over.

I'm not sure I agree with the posters talking about the smell and feel of newsprint, directly, but I think they also see that the new books are glossy and it's often not just the paper.

So, that all probably keeps me in the "Curmudgeon Camp" but I don't want to be.

If you're sick of cynical, jaded, and flawed super-heroes, you might might want to avoid The Boys.  If you're a Superman fan, you might enjoy All Star Superman by Morrison and Quitely.  It reads like a tribute to 50's and 60's era Superman.  It seemed that they were trying to get as far away from gritty Frank Miller type stories as they possibly could.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Jasonmorris1000000

[Jasonmorris1000000]

1 hour ago, awakeintheashes said:

I can see that. 

Circling back around to The Sixth Gun, I thought the art and the writing matched perfectly. A great supernatural western that sucked me into the world they built and left me wanting more.

I'll have to check it out.  Thanks.

[Jasonmorris1000000]

Hold off on the Shadow because Francavil didn't do the art on the inside and the story was kind of forgettable actually.  I should have recommended this one instead.  Obviously my favorite Zorro artist is Alex Toth, but Francavil is my second favorite.  Also, Matt Wagner (of Mage and Grendel fame) wrote it competently.

2 hours ago, goldust40 said:

I'm an oldie who collects GA but on the other hand I am a big fan of Bagge (must get this series - how did I miss it?) Powell, Gray, and Palmiotti.

Some of the recommendations I'm not keen on for aesthetic reasons, such as the odd bit of artwork that reminds me of early 90s Image, but as long as there's a variance in art and storytelling then there'll always be something for me on the comic rack. The All-Star Western and Shadow series looked good, as did some of the Hulk stuff.

To be fair though I stopped my standing order five years ago as too much product, and there was so much of it, was samey while the visuals trumped the storytelling, which always came first when I started reading American comics (the early 70s). Comics should evolve but storytelling and characterization are more important than great artistry.

 

[Math Teacher]

3 hours ago, Yes I Canada said:

Some of the best series in comic history came out in this time period.

That's the dumbest reason not to buy Moderns I've ever heard.

To each his own.

[Jasonmorris1000000]

I've liked pretty much everything I've read written by Gerard Way, especially his Cave Carson series.  In that one you can really tell that Way loves Silver/Atom age DC comics.  My roommate (a comic collector) hates modern comics, but said he loved the Umbrella Academy TV show.  I've read all the comics and enjoyed them but have not checked out the TV show.  I like comics more than TV and cinema so I haven't gotten around to watching it.  Anyway, I asked him if he wanted to borrow my Umbrella Academy TPB's and read them and he had zero interest in that.  No matter how hard I try, I cannot get him to read a comic book that was published after 1985.

[Jasonmorris1000000]

I know Bolland's been around forever, but this is a Modern comic

[Jasonmorris1000000]

As a kid, I was always fascinated by drawings of Banner when he's in an in-between state.  As a result I find myself compelled to always buy a comic that has that as its cover. If Marvel really wanted to mess with me, they'd put out 50 Hulk transformation covers in one month.

[the blob]

"I don't know if you've noticed, but there seems to be a lot of Golden, Silver, and Bronze Age collectors that hate modern comics.  I personally enjoy comic stories from all eras except for the Platinum Age (although I haven't read any from that era).  Anyway, which current creators would you try to use as examples to convince old farts that all eras of comics have good in them.  One artist that comes to mind for me is Rafael Grampa."

Sweeping generalization. Probably only true for a few people suffering from their own mental illness. I'm an old fart who loves a lot of the covers I see. The problem is the insides are sometimes less inspiring and stories are often so darn convoluted I just give up... and the last 30 years of cannon have just made it incomprehensible between marvel and DC. That's why when I found myself reading stuff it was titles like Goon and Fables that were kind of self contained. Give me a spiderman or wolverine story that doesn't require me to know WTF has gone on over the last 30 years and I am cool.