GRADING INCONSISTENCY??!! 1 1

[Lightning55]

Grading is a roll of the dice.  I have projected a grade at 8.5 that came back 9.6.  Another at 9.0 that came back 9.8.  And others similarly.  I have also had the reverse action, probably twice as often as the uptick. 

Most every one will swing a bit in either direction.  It's the wide differences that have you scratching your head.

[JOENAVY]

"So dont ask our opinion with that type of scan" I didn't man...it was requested and I said I only had the one. Atleast they did the press and and reslab. Thats something i guess. Do you still have the All Star 8? Saving that baby for retirement? PERPENDICULOUS - wow, thank god you found out about kellysuperheroes right before your purchase. Was the tens of thousands on one book or multiples and once?

[theCapraAegagrus]

7 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

Yup.

[Perpendiculous]

4 hours ago, JOENAVY said:

"So dont ask our opinion with that type of scan" I didn't man...it was requested and I said I only had the one. Atleast they did the press and and reslab. Thats something i guess. Do you still have the All Star 8? Saving that baby for retirement? PERPENDICULOUS - wow, thank god you found out about kellysuperheroes right before your purchase. Was the tens of thousands on one book or multiples and once?

Many books back when he was selling as comic-keys on eBay and I was an insufficiently_thoughtful_person. He refunded me all my money after first 4 books came back plod’s and the Comics Buyers Guide broke an expose on him at nearly the same time. I was very lucky. He even paid shipping. But he’s still out there...

[Randall Ries]

On 1/14/2021 at 8:49 AM, Perpendiculous said:

You didn’t happen to buy that book from “Kelleyssuperheros” on eBay, did you? I recognize that table and the angle of the photo and the image resolution. If not, forgive me. If so, you may want to research that seller on the boards. And elsewhere...

I was just about to say the same. I'd recognize that countertop anywhere. Look: If you got a decent, mid-high grade blue label, consider yourself a lucky collector. Hope you didn't OVERpay.

[Randall Ries]

1 hour ago, Perpendiculous said:

Many books back when he was selling as comic-keys on eBay and I was an insufficiently_thoughtful_person. He refunded me all my money after first 4 books came back plod’s and the Comics Buyers Guide broke an expose on him at nearly the same time. I was very lucky. He even paid shipping. But he’s still out there...

I suppose the good thing is he did what he had to do to stay in business. Or should have done in the first place. He notes restoration where applicable. Just have to look for the disclaimer a bit. He has a REALLY nice HOS 92 and a Bat 227 and I asked the boarders here what his deal was because I just didn't know enough about online dealers. All of his books looked a little too good to be true. I got an earful.

And to grading: Yes. I have seen so many examples where a book should not have gotten the grade it did. Books that are highly sought after to begin with getting high grades when there are even just light hatchet marks up an down the spine make you wonder. Because at that point, we are just collecting covers. And when a Bat 251 is graded 9.4 on ebay and I see color breaking stress lines up and down the spine, my tendency is not to buy it. Not at 9.4 asking price. YEAH it says it's a 9.4. But no it really isn't. So, the seller had a good day when his 7.5 Bat 251 with o/w pages came back a 9.4. ow/w pages. But then what? What's it like trying to sell it? For some reason, my eye is a lot sharper when I am buying than when I'm selling.

When I was trying to buy a Green Lantern #76, I couldn't believe the amount of covers that were 9.4 and even 9.6 with pretty obvious defects that should have kept them at 8.0-8.5. I'm sure there are still examples. I found a 7.5 to buy (I did) that looked just as good as some of the 9.0's. So, I got a nice 8.5 looking book for a 7.5 price. I have a lot of 7.0-7.5 books that look like 9.2. Then people start saying "YAH! But there must be somethin' goin' on INSIDE that is holding it down!" No. I don't think so. I think what held it down is the grader didn't get any YupYup from his lady the night before and he's taking it out on our books today at work.

[Perpendiculous]

1 hour ago, Randall Ries said:

I suppose the good thing is he did what he had to do to stay in business. Or should have done in the first place. He notes restoration where applicable. Just have to look for the disclaimer a bit. He has a REALLY nice HOS 92 and a Bat 227 and I asked the boarders here what his deal was because I just didn't know enough about online dealers. All of his books looked a little too good to be true. I got an earful.

And to grading: Yes. I have seen so many examples where a book should not have gotten the grade it did. Books that are highly sought after to begin with getting high grades when there are even just light hatchet marks up an down the spine make you wonder. Because at that point, we are just collecting covers. And when a Bat 251 is graded 9.4 on ebay and I see color breaking stress lines up and down the spine, my tendency is not to buy it. Not at 9.4 asking price. YEAH it says it's a 9.4. But no it really isn't. So, the seller had a good day when his 7.5 Bat 251 with o/w pages came back a 9.4. ow/w pages. But then what? What's it like trying to sell it? For some reason, my eye is a lot sharper when I am buying than when I'm selling.

When I was trying to buy a Green Lantern #76, I couldn't believe the amount of covers that were 9.4 and even 9.6 with pretty obvious defects that should have kept them at 8.0-8.5. I'm sure there are still examples. I found a 7.5 to buy (I did) that looked just as good as some of the 9.0's. So, I got a nice 8.5 looking book for a 7.5 price. I have a lot of 7.0-7.5 books that look like 9.2. Then people start saying "YAH! But there must be somethin' goin' on INSIDE that is holding it down!" No. I don't think so. I think what held it down is the grader didn't get any YupYup from his lady the night before and he's taking it out on our books today at work.

Not sure I agree. I might just be bitter, but he buries his restoration notes, doesn’t put it in the listing title and provides one low Rez image. He’s got a JLA up now for 15k. Even if I didn’t know it was probably altered in some way, who is spending that on eBay based on one photo. Oh and his “camera creates an artifact”. Like you can’t invest in a scanner when you’re selling 50k worth of books in your eBay store. It’s the exact same scam, just tightened up a little and 15 years later.

[Jeffro.]

3 minutes ago, E5150 said:

1 hour ago, Perpendiculous said:

Not sure I agree. I might just be bitter, but...

Nope, it's not you being bitter. He's probably the #1 all-time scammer in the comic hobby and deserves your contempt, scorn, and derision.

He just did what he had to do to stay in business

[Randall Ries]

43 minutes ago, E5150 said:

That's a good thing??????

The "good" thing is that he now notes all color touch, trimming etc. As long as people who sell are going to be around, it's "good" to know what it is they are selling. Then, people can decide what they want to do. As members here have said, yes they bought an unknown quantity, but he didn't refuse to reimburse them if they weren't happy and paid shipping both ways. So, as of RIGHT NOW, he seems to be doing legit business. That is also "good".

There's another thread around here that busted on someone with poor business dealings, too. 8 years ago. He was a thief, apparently. He apologized, admitted he did wrong. Since then, he claims he has straightened out and some board members have said he seems legit now with no issues. But some people are less than forgiving and would still like to see him hanged.

Just saying. Shouldn't people be given chances? Haven't all of us needed forgiveness?

[Jeffro.]

20 hours ago, Randall Ries said:

Just saying. Shouldn't people be given chances? Haven't all of us needed forgiveness?

For me it comes down to either doing business with someone who has always been on the strate and narrow versus someone who was once a bad actor but has seemingly reformed. 

Given those two choices, my money's going to the one who has always been on the strate and narrow. 

Edited January 16, 2021 by Jeffro.

[Randall Ries]

2 hours ago, Perpendiculous said:

Not sure I agree. I might just be bitter, but he buries his restoration notes, doesn’t put it in the listing title and provides one low Rez image. He’s got a JLA up now for 15k. Even if I didn’t know it was probably altered in some way, who is spending that on eBay based on one photo. Oh and his “camera creates an artifact”. Like you can’t invest in a scanner when you’re selling 50k worth of books in your eBay store. It’s the exact same scam, just tightened up a little and 15 years later.

Buyer beware. When I saw his store for the first time, I thought it was odd so many raw books seemed perfect. So, I asked the boarders here if they knew of this seller. They did. I re-examined his store and found the resto and color touch addendum easily enough. I'm not defending how he approaches selling, but in fact, he IS meeting all of eBay's criteria now. Plus, from all accounts I read about him, he refunded unhappy buyers and paid shipping both ways. Sure. He established a reputation of being a deadbeat. Now, he has to live with it.

The only reason I asked the boarders here is because of the seeming perfection of raw books coupled with his asking prices. I knew you guys would know and I was quite pleased for the helpful information and background everyone gave me about him. Now I know not to buy a book from him. He has a few inexpensive bronze age Detectives I wouldn't mind having and they aren't marked as "Restored". And even at that, I resist buying them.

If anyone is ready to drop $15k on a raw JLA book, they had better be asking questions of the buyer. If they don't or they don't scan the page closely enough, well? Buyer beware is all. I have said it many time for example. The only way I'm buying key books is if they are graded by a professional company and encapsulated. I guess I could risk $30 to buy a Brave And The Bold 109 raw. Incredible Hulk 181 raw? Not on your life.

[Randall Ries]

2 minutes ago, Jeffro. said:

For me it comes down to either doing business with someone who has always been on the strait and narrow versus someone who was once a bad actor but has seemingly reformed. 

Given those two choices, my money's going to the one who has always been on the strait and narrow. 

Of course. My first choice as well. Being a small business person myself, it's all about reputation. I have gotten hosed for things that were absolutely NOT my fault, warned the client about a potential problem, been ignored, they carried out the transaction, the problem occurred and I got nailed on for it. I told the client it was NOT a good idea and don't do it, THEY knew BETTER and I took the fall for it when things went south. So, it happens both ways.

People by and large? They suck. My transactions - including buying key comic books or collectibles - need to come with an airtight guarantee. Or deal no.

[Randall Ries]

58 minutes ago, Jeffro. said:

He just did what he had to do to stay in business

Yes. He went legit by adding the addendum of restoration. Common sense dictates honesty is the best policy in business. Once your rep is screwed, it takes a lot to come back. Seriously: How much money do we think he makes? It's the same books on ebay for a long time. No one is buying. Maybe smaller, low price tag unrestored items. Those keys are just gathering duct. My bigger problem with him is he wrecked some nice high grade books by trying to make them artificially nicer. Like those goofs that have Neal Adams sketch on a real 9.6 Bat 227. That gets to me. Scibble on a 6.0 if you must have your book scribbled on. Those things sit, too.

[Randall Ries]

8 minutes ago, E5150 said:

Forgiveness and second chances for  Danny/Richard/Perry? No effing way. You're too much of if noob to understand I guess. In fact you just fell for his M.O. too. You think he's legit because he has a return policy? He's always had a return policy, for 20+ years. That's part of the scam, it's why he did so well on Ebay before they wouldn't allow sellers to have private feedback anymore. That's why he had to abandon the "comic-keys" ID.

Well, thanks for that. I'm not a "noob". If I were, I wouldn't have asked you guys first about him. I don't buy from him either, so I haven't "fallen" for anything.

I think he's "legit" because he was forced to be "legit". Like any other businessperson SHOULD be right from the beginning. He was not. Now, he is paying the piper. I don't care about him one way or the other. I am grateful that there are people here I could turn to for an opinion. A "noob" would have plowed in where angels fear to write checks. As I said: Anyone willing to dump $15k on a JLA book w/o researching ANY seller gets whats coming to them.

[Randall Ries]

6 minutes ago, E5150 said:

Another comic hippie who wants to hold hands and sing Kumbaya when he doesn't know what he's talking about 

Not like you, though. Right, Poppie? I explained myself well enough to you. We are done here. I'll get kicked out for telling you off.

[The Lions Den]

19 hours ago, TC33 said:

Your best bet is to resubmit if you don't like the grade, they have hundreds of graders and a +/- full grade is not uncommon. 

I'm sorry, but while I feel your pain, this is misleading. The last time I counted, there were less than 20 graders...

[The Lions Den]

1 hour ago, Randall Ries said:

Not like you, though. Right, Poppie? I explained myself well enough to you. We are done here. I'll get kicked out for telling you off.

I enjoyed your post and understand completely. And this is certainly a great place to ask questions...someone always seems to know the answer.  

[JOENAVY]

E5150 who hurt you man? Lol Ive seen some crass mfers in my 22 yrs in the military but damn...you cold. Dropped 15 degrees in my house just reading your replies to everyone. Lol

[Perpendiculous]

30 minutes ago, E5150 said:

If it had been anyone but Danny/Richard/Perry my responses would've been different. Well, maybe except for Ewart or Doug Schmell 

Like Metallica says "Honesty is my only excuse".

Sorry Joe - I think I’m down with E5 on this one. This guy caused a lot of pain to a lot of people and I’ll bet there’s plenty of Kellysuperhero customers who’ll get smacked in the face if they ever submit their books for pro grading. The guy was ugly in every way you can be. Calling a book 9.8 MT/MT+ On eBay In the heading and adding within a wall of text “trim” or “slight ct” does not sufficiently mitigate his current or past deceptions. 

[TC33]

10 hours ago, Perpendiculous said:

Many books back when he was selling as comic-keys on eBay and I was an insufficiently_thoughtful_person. He refunded me all my money after first 4 books came back plod’s and the Comics Buyers Guide broke an expose on him at nearly the same time. I was very lucky. He even paid shipping. But he’s still out there...

Hey never worked with kelleysuperheroes but comickeys is a name that sounds familiar.  If its the same guy, I remember getting outbid by him on a lower grade TEC 38 (restored 1st Robin) at Heritage in the very last second and being so pissed.  How do I know who it was? He broke open the slab to sell it as raw in a higher estimated grade on ebay and only said he was not sure if it had resto or something misleading like that.  He sold it for far more on ebay being dishonest and I missed out on my last chance to own a TEC 38 from a HA auction that I should have won for a reasonable price. (literally has gone up many multiples since)  

Edited January 15, 2021 by TC33