ASM # 50 restored !!!!! 0

[ramithard]

Soooo...back in about 1999 I bought this as NM on a REPUTABLE website for $ 375.....Got the book and was happy for a few years...until I sent it to CGC to get Slabbed around 2004....the book came back restored and I was pissed !!!....I contacted the dealer for a refund , and he told me to POUND SAND....I was happy it was a 9.0 , but the red label ate at my stomach for almost 20 years... and then I found out about CGC and their service to remove restoration.....

Edited January 14, 2021 by ramithard

[ramithard]

It's back and graded.....Thank You CGC for all your help !!!!!

[silversurfer275]

5 minutes ago, ramithard said:

It's back and graded.....Thank You CGC for all your help !!!!!

congrats

[oldrover]

CGC rocks! They unrestored a few of my biggest books. Congrats!

[theCapraAegagrus]

Nice.

[Mmehdy]

Great, get rid of that restoration, CONG

[pemart1966]

5 hours ago, Mmehdy said:

Great, get rid of that restoration, CONG

I agree.  But just as the label specifies what restoration has been done the label should also specify what restoration has been undone.

There's no way that a book should get a universal label if restoration has been undone.

This has to put into question ALL books with universal labels....

[Randall Ries]

2 hours ago, pemart1966 said:

I agree.  But just as the label specifies what restoration has been done the label should also specify what restoration has been undone.

There's no way that a book should get a universal label if restoration has been undone.

This has to put into question ALL books with universal labels....

Why? And what would that look like?

 

[pemart1966]

36 minutes ago, Randall Ries said:

Why? And what would that look like?

 

Would you want to put out thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars for a blue label book that had previously been restored without knowing that it had been previously restored?

A book that's labelled "Universal" should not have been restored and then "un restored" .  If, as the OP has stated in his OP that CGC offers a restoration removal service, then they should be able to create a label that says exactly what restoration they've removed - a label that mimics the details provided on their "Restored" labels.

"Removed restoration includes..."

Edited January 19, 2021 by pemart1966

[Randall Ries]

Just now, pemart1966 said:

Not too sure that I understand your question.  The new label?

What it sounds like you are suggesting is resubbing all universally graded books or their integrity is called into question. I just don't know how practical that is. If I had a restored book and I had the restoration removed, would it require a different color label? How would the value of that book be determined? Would it be snubbed like the purple label tends to be?

The book shown here doesn't look like an 8.5 to me. Whenever I see color touch removed along the spine, it looks like the book has been gouged. Like more than just the color has been removed.

I just was wondering if what you suggest would create more problems than "slight color touch".

[pemart1966]

18 minutes ago, Randall Ries said:

What it sounds like you are suggesting is resubbing all universally graded books or their integrity is called into question. I just don't know how practical that is. If I had a restored book and I had the restoration removed, would it require a different color label? How would the value of that book be determined? Would it be snubbed like the purple label tends to be?

The book shown here doesn't look like an 8.5 to me. Whenever I see color touch removed along the spine, it looks like the book has been gouged. Like more than just the color has been removed.

I just was wondering if what you suggest would create more problems than "slight color touch".

I'm not necessarily suggesting that all Universal books need to be re subbed but what I am saying is that without a new colour label how does one tell the difference between a "never touched" book and one that's had restoration removed?  As you say, you might be able to tell by the gouges but then again, you might not - especially if the restoration is very minor.  

"How would the value be determined?"/Would they be snubbed?  That would be determined in the marketplace.  

Would you want to spend $2M on a blue label Action 1 without knowing that CGC had removed some previous restoration?  As it stands now, without the benefit of new colour labelling, you may not be able to tell.

Similarly, any blue label book that you look at may have had restoration removed and you may not know.

I find this whole scenario frightening.

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by pemart1966

[Randall Ries]

6 minutes ago, pemart1966 said:

I'm not necessarily suggesting that all Universal books need to be re subbed but what I am saying is that without a new colour label how does one tell the difference between a "never touched" book and one that's had restoration removed?  As you say, you might be able to tell by the gouges but then again, you might not - especially if the restoration is very minor.  

"How would the value be determined?"/Would they be snubbed?  That would be determined in the marketplace.  

Would you want to spend $2M on a blue label Action 1 without knowing that CGC has removed some previous restoration?  As it stands now, without the benefit of new colour labelling, you may not be able to tell.

Similarly, any blue label book that you look at may have had restoration removed and you may not know.

I find this whole scenario frightening.

 

My impression is they would be snubbed. We know how people get. It seems that a $2M Action 1 would be likely brokered through HA or something. Probably restoration removal would be noted. One would hope. If it WERE noted, I bet it would get less than expected. If it ISN'T noted, it is sort of an admission that restoration removal is a sort of secondary restoration in and of itself. It sort of insinuates it.

The few books I have seen that have had restoration removed seem to look the same. They no longer look like color breaks but look like paper has been removed with tweezers. I look at the #50 here and while it's a fine book, I don't see it as an 8.5. I think once professional restoration has been applied, perhaps that is the way the book should stay. Perhaps restoration removal should not be an option anymore instead of being faced with the dilemma of second guessing any blue label books. Can we imagine what a Bat 1 with extensive restoration would look like if the restoration were removed?

Restoration removal could be viewed as a "Second Tier" restoration with it's own colored label. Automatically, it would be snubbed as a purple label can be. Although I could deal with a purple label with "slight color touch" or "Cover cleaned". Cleaning shouldn't even be considered restoration.

[Randall Ries]

Here's another example of ASM 50 at 8.5. If I were looking for/could afford the book, which one would I choose if I were looking for an 8.5? Yours or this?

 

[pemart1966]

12 minutes ago, Randall Ries said:

Here's another example of ASM 50 at 8.5. If I were looking for/could afford the book, which one would I choose if I were looking for an 8.5? Yours or this?

 

I don't know if one can make that call because all we're comparing is front covers.  Who's to say that there hasn't been any restoration removed from any of the interior covers; the interiors; and/or the back cover?

How long has this situation been going on?

Edited January 19, 2021 by pemart1966