Is Batman 227 the next Incredible Hulk 181? 0

[Randall Ries]

1 hour ago, Savoyard23 said:

  Just might bump those up in the queue.  Would be really nice to finish the BA Batman run.

Yes. Neal Adams isn't getting any younger. It's great he is still working. All I need is a nice copy of 222 and that will settle my OCD down. The first one I bought when I started collecting again was 244. Then 251. REALLY glad I bought 251 when I did. $115 in 2010 for a CGC graded 9.0. It's one of those cases when you really love the book and are happy to have it. I never looked at what they were going for until I was on EBAY last year. 'WHAT THE FRIGGETY FRACK???"

How about you, though? Which ones are you going to go for?

[Tec-Tac-Toe]

On 2/3/2021 at 3:52 PM, the blob said:

227 is not "challenging" 181 at all. It is super expensive because there are 9 in the census and has an iconic cool cover. If there were 126 in the census like 181, it would be a small fraction. The proof is a cgc 8.0 181 goes for $4500-5000 whereas an 8.0 227 does not crack $900. indeed, for $900 you could have gotten a SS Adam 8.0 last week. so you get a freak outlier sale on a 9.8 that rarely comes up. probably some tech guy with too much money from some stock valuation. I am curious, what does batman 226 cgc 9.8 go for? even fewer in census, but a ho hum Adams cover.

It appears that the Batman 227 was purchased by registry member MarvinTheMartian.

[Roger66]

On 2/3/2021 at 12:31 PM, jbud73 said:

While I am a big fan of Batman 227, its apples and oranges to compare it to the first appearance of the most popular character in the Marvel Universe [along side Spider-Man].  That said Batman 227 is one of the best covers in the Bronze Age.  I can't remember where it sat on the BA Covers of all time forum poll from 12 or so years ago, might have been #1, it was in the top 3.  Its also harder to find in high grade as the census will show.

Still this sale is an outlier for sure and I can almost guarantee the next 9.8 doesnt hit 25K.

Agreed plus I never thought (and still don't) that the comic market worked the way this thread possibly implies.  A 9.8 sale of an early bronze or silver age classic book like this doesn't and shouldn't ever trickle down to the lower graded more common copies. Those in the very small pool, who can afford to pay top dollar for 9.8s like this Bats are buying essentially something rare and uncommon (like art). When I saw the title to this thread I thought it was more about trying to provoke comments and attention and not about the author really honestly thinking this book was in Hulk 181 territory (at least I hope not).  It is just not a comparison IMO.  The iconic Hulk 181 has history and longevity in this hobby.  Batman 227 is a super wonderful classic cover only, which is fun to own but let's not get carried away with its' value.  Today's frothy market breeds all types of speculators and in turn flippers, who are looking for the next hot book based upon any seismic event (as well as what they might be personally stocked up in).  While short term certain books realize huge bumps, historically speaking I look for longevity in my collecting purposes plus personal appeal.  My 2 cents. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Roger66

[Rip]

1 hour ago, Tec-Tac-Toe said:

It appears that the Batman 227 was purchased by registry member MarvinTheMartian.

That makes a little more sense now. He DID get one of the best 9.8's out there also. White pages and well centered.

[Savoyard23]

23 hours ago, Randall Ries said:

Yes. Neal Adams isn't getting any younger. It's great he is still working. All I need is a nice copy of 222 and that will settle my OCD down. The first one I bought when I started collecting again was 244. Then 251. REALLY glad I bought 251 when I did. $115 in 2010 for a CGC graded 9.0. It's one of those cases when you really love the book and are happy to have it. I never looked at what they were going for until I was on EBAY last year. 'WHAT THE FRIGGETY FRACK???"

How about you, though? Which ones are you going to go for?

Thanks for asking.  I'd like to complete the Bronze Age Batman, up to where I dropped off as a kid (around Batman 391 / Detective 556).  I say the BA started at Detective 395 / Batman 217.

I don't think that would be practical if my younger self hadn't happen to snag the 227, 232, and 251.  Thanks, younger Jason.

But the 234 and 237 are, I think, the only real keys I still need in the title, though mind you, I also lack Detective 400 and 405.

I'm happy with mid-grade (4.0-6.0 range).  Some of my older issues are pretty rough, though, like the 251, as I mentioned.  I do have a 222, but it's only about a 2.0.  I'd probably only upgrade if I got a screaming deal, and how often do you see those on Neal Adams Batman?  

How about you?  Just going for the keys?

[Randall Ries]

39 minutes ago, Savoyard23 said:

Thanks for asking.  I'd like to complete the Bronze Age Batman, up to where I dropped off as a kid (around Batman 391 / Detective 556).  I say the BA started at Detective 395 / Batman 217.

I don't think that would be practical if my younger self hadn't happen to snag the 227, 232, and 251.  Thanks, younger Jason.

But the 234 and 237 are, I think, the only real keys I still need in the title, though mind you, I also lack Detective 400 and 405.

I'm happy with mid-grade (4.0-6.0 range).  Some of my older issues are pretty rough, though, like the 251, as I mentioned.  I do have a 222, but it's only about a 2.0.  I'd probably only upgrade if I got a screaming deal, and how often do you see those on Neal Adams Batman?  

How about you?  Just going for the keys?

Well, I had stopped collecting in 1986. I started up again in 2001 and purchased an 8.0 Bat 9. After that, I determined to collect the issues that were reprinted in the C-51 Treasury from 1976. Then did Swamp Thing 1-10. Then Bat 251 and Tec 395. The last one of those was Bat 255 which I THINK is his last interior Bat art in the Bronze age. I bought a 9.4 Bat 227 and traded it off in a trade deal a couple years ago. A few weeks ago I bought an 8.0. Better keep that one. I have all the B&B Adams Bat stuff except the Aquaman "Sleepwalker" cover.

Then it was GL/GA 76-89 in 8.0 or better. So, I still "need" a 222 in my brain. Not just for the Adams cover but the "Paul Is Dead" aspect of it as well. And recently have started thinking about the Adams Bat covers w/o interior art.

I determined to by DKIII with signed covers which is really the only value to those books. So, I bought them from Greg Reece and Sons with the exception of #9 which they didn't have at the time. All of them x4 signed. A #1 Lee variant x5 signed. Then it was a signed/graded run of Adams "Strange Adventures" Deadman.  Neal Adams meant a lot to me when I was a kid. I'm not a huge fan of his new style but who doesn't respect Neal Adams, right? The silver age art was a breath of fresh air back then. Then to have it continued into the bronze age was frosting.

There is so much good stuff out there now. It's hard to know where to begin or stop. My criteria had been getting the books in 8.0 or better and also the ones I never had as a kid. But sometimes we have to move our line around. I bought a signed Tec 400 7.5 because those are pricey in high grade. NOW I'm noticing the Immortal Hulk series. Those covers and the premise are awesome. I just need to be careful. COVID kicked our business in the junk and I tend to buy what I see when I see it. So, diving into collecting everything again is not feasible.

[Number 6]

3 hours ago, Randall Ries said:

Well, I had stopped collecting in 1986. I started up again in 2001 and purchased an 8.0 Bat 9. After that, I determined to collect the issues that were reprinted in the C-51 Treasury from 1976. Then did Swamp Thing 1-10. Then Bat 251 and Tec 395. The last one of those was Bat 255 which I THINK is his last interior Bat art in the Bronze age. I bought a 9.4 Bat 227 and traded it off in a trade deal a couple years ago. A few weeks ago I bought an 8.0. Better keep that one. I have all the B&B Adams Bat stuff except the Aquaman "Sleepwalker" cover.

There is Detective Comics #477 from 5-6/78 that has interior Adams art though it’s a reprint of Detective Comics #408 so it might be discounted for that reason. 
 

There’s the Power Record Book and Record sets PR-27, PR-30, and BR-512 from 1975/76.  PR-27 and BR-512 have original Adams covers and interior art; PR-30 has panels from Detective Comics #400, 402, 407 that have slightly altered art and dialogue along with original art panels. 
 

I understand that most discount the Power Record sets as not being “true” comics, though PR-27 and PR-30 are listed in Oversteet in the regular comic book section and both have the Comic Code Authority stamp on the back. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Number 6

[Randall Ries]

3 hours ago, Number 6 said:

There is Detective Comics #477 from 5-6/78 that has interior Adams art though it’s a reprint of Detective Comics #408 so it might be discounted for that reason. 
 

There’s the Power Record Book and Record sets PR-27, PR-30, and BR-512 from 1975/76.  PR-27 and BR-512 have original Adams covers and interior art; PR-30 has panels from Detective Comics #400, 402, 407 that have slightly altered art and dialogue along with original art panels. 
 

I understand that most discount the Power Record sets as not being “true” comics, though PR-27 and PR-30 are listed in Oversteet in the regular comic book section and both have the Comic Code Authority stamp on the back. 

I had not realized that. I guess I was thinking in terms of the continuity. Now I will have to hunt those down. Probably not cheap as a complete set. Like that "Almost Got 'im" thing.

[Number 6]

6 minutes ago, Randall Ries said:

I had not realized that. I guess I was thinking in terms of the continuity. Now I will have to hunt those down. Probably not cheap as a complete set. Like that "Almost Got 'im" thing.

Actually, unless you’re super picky about condition, they’re pretty plentiful. 
 

As far as continuity, I’m not sure. 
 

The PR-30 tells an abbreviated version of the Man-Bat story from Detective Comics but works Robin into the story. Probably safe to assume the Detective is the “official” version of the story. 
 

As far as PR-27 and BR-512 I don’t recall anything that would necessarily discount them from being in continuity, though the Sherlock Holmes story in BR-512 might be in the same category as the Brave and the Bold team-ups. 
 

PR-27 has some vestiges of the 60’s T.V. show like the red Bat-phone and a police chief with an indeterminate Irish accent (though he’s not called O’Hara). But other than that, it’s not campy and could easily be a regular issue of the comics.

[Randall Ries]

6 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

Actually, unless you’re super picky about condition, they’re pretty plentiful. 
 

As far as continuity, I’m not sure. 
 

The PR-30 tells an abbreviated version of the Man-Bat story from Detective Comics but works Robin into the story. Probably safe to assume the Detective is the “official” version of the story. 
 

As far as PR-27 and BR-512 I don’t recall anything that would necessarily discount them from being in continuity, though the Sherlock Holmes story in BR-512 might be in the same category as the Brave and the Bold team-ups. 
 

PR-27 has some vestiges of the 60’s T.V. show like the red Bat-phone and a police chief with an indeterminate Irish accent (though he’s not called O’Hara). But other than that, it’s not campy and could easily be a regular issue of the comics.

Not picky per se. Just want completeness and not all beat up. 7.0 and up is fine by me. I have OCD to a degree where having the comic w/o the record would make me jumpy. LOL! Plus if it's original art. I hadn't seen any Adams art after 255 in any of the titles until much much later. HAdn't thought about one-shots or projects on the toys side of things. Thanks!

[Savoyard23]

7 hours ago, Randall Ries said:

Well, I had stopped collecting in 1986. I started up again in 2001 and purchased an 8.0 Bat 9. After that, I determined to collect the issues that were reprinted in the C-51 Treasury from 1976. Then did Swamp Thing 1-10. Then Bat 251 and Tec 395. The last one of those was Bat 255 which I THINK is his last interior Bat art in the Bronze age. I bought a 9.4 Bat 227 and traded it off in a trade deal a couple years ago. A few weeks ago I bought an 8.0. Better keep that one. I have all the B&B Adams Bat stuff except the Aquaman "Sleepwalker" cover.

Then it was GL/GA 76-89 in 8.0 or better. So, I still "need" a 222 in my brain. Not just for the Adams cover but the "Paul Is Dead" aspect of it as well. And recently have started thinking about the Adams Bat covers w/o interior art.

I determined to by DKIII with signed covers which is really the only value to those books. So, I bought them from Greg Reece and Sons with the exception of #9 which they didn't have at the time. All of them x4 signed. A #1 Lee variant x5 signed. Then it was a signed/graded run of Adams "Strange Adventures" Deadman.  Neal Adams meant a lot to me when I was a kid. I'm not a huge fan of his new style but who doesn't respect Neal Adams, right? The silver age art was a breath of fresh air back then. Then to have it continued into the bronze age was frosting.

There is so much good stuff out there now. It's hard to know where to begin or stop. My criteria had been getting the books in 8.0 or better and also the ones I never had as a kid. But sometimes we have to move our line around. I bought a signed Tec 400 7.5 because those are pricey in high grade. NOW I'm noticing the Immortal Hulk series. Those covers and the premise are awesome. I just need to be careful. COVID kicked our business in the junk and I tend to buy what I see when I see it. So, diving into collecting everything again is not feasible.

Cool story, and if I come across a nice 222 in my wanderings on the Internet, I will surely bring it to your attention.

One's collecting focus does tend to wander, but I agree that Neal Adams will always sell.

I own so many (often beat-up) Neal Adams covers now because, when I was a kid seeking out back issues, long before I knew who Adams was, those dynamic covers jumped out from the longbox and said 'buy this book'.

[Number 6]

5 hours ago, Randall Ries said:

Not picky per se. Just want completeness and not all beat up. 7.0 and up is fine by me. I have OCD to a degree where having the comic w/o the record would make me jumpy. LOL! Plus if it's original art. I hadn't seen any Adams art after 255 in any of the titles until much much later. HAdn't thought about one-shots or projects on the toys side of things. Thanks!

Just a quick clarification:  the BR-512 has cool front/back cover Neal Adams art...but not actual interior art, which was the criteria you mentioned. Sorry about that. 
 

On the plus side: PR-27 gives Adams both art AND story credit.  And there’s repeated mention of a possible frontal lobotomy to cure the Joker...in a comic aimed largely at small children. So there’s that. 

[Randall Ries]

21 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

Just a quick clarification:  the BR-512 has cool front/back cover Neal Adams art...but not actual interior art, which was the criteria you mentioned. Sorry about that. 
 

On the plus side: PR-27 gives Adams both art AND story credit.  And there’s repeated mention of a possible frontal lobotomy to cure the Joker...in a comic aimed largely at small children. So there’s that. 

That's how I learned about Krakatoa, though. B&B 109 took us back in time to see the explosion. We discovered that a criminal could be on a ship and get caught in the explosion, covered in lava and be preserved for 150 years, then get set free by another explosion and go on a killing spree.

I think Magog got it right with the Joker. And the Elseworlds old Batman. Snuff him. Save lives.

[William-James88]

I would say "no". Not necessarily based on how much money it could get in one random auction, but in terms of what kind of book it is. Batman 227 has a nice cover. And that's it.

Hulk 181 is the "first appearance" of one of the most popular comic book characters of all time. 

So yeah, not in the same league.