Comics as an investment for retirement 2 2

[Artboy99]

37 minutes ago, William-James88 said:

I dont think saving 50$ a month can get you an AF15 anytime soon. But it can go into a mutual fund. So yeah, on that aspect you cant do the same with both.

neither can investing in the S&P Index. The value of the book goes up more. What an interesting conversation though.

Edited January 23, 2021 by Artboy99

[the blob]

36 minutes ago, Mr.Fantastic said:

How is this tracked though? Are you speaking of collectors who actually make a living selling comics vs someone else that would just be selling them?

If you are selling a $50,000 book and bought it for $10,000, you are going to pay that capital gains rate on the $40K. You don't have to be in the business or any of that. If you are in the business you might be able to to take more deductions on the "expense" side and it may just be regular business income.

[the blob]

2 hours ago, Artboy99 said:

devils advocate: one could say the same about an AF15 purchase.

a cgc 5.0 purchased for $16000 inn 2010 then sold for $57000 10 years later is amazing return

But is that what AF 15 did over that period? Seems to be more around $41K in that shape. No idea what it was in 2010. $16K seemed like a lot in the middle of that recession though. 

[Artboy99]

22 minutes ago, the blob said:

But is that what AF 15 did over that period? Seems to be more around $41K in that shape. No idea what it was in 2010. $16K seemed like a lot in the middle of that recession though. 

my figures came directly from GPA, took an average instead of hi-low.

While I don't think buying comics is a great idea as investments, I do feel I have to point out the possible returns which in some cases like the mentioned AF15 can outperform even after tax considerations.

I purchased a cgc 3.0 AF15 in 2013 for $5000, and today gpa for that book is $23500. Very good return for 7-8 years.

Do we dare talk about Mask Comics 1 and 2? @thehumantorch

Edited January 23, 2021 by Artboy99

[piper]

8 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

my figures came directly from GPA, took an average instead of hi-low.

While I don't think buying comics is a great idea as investments, I do feel I have to point out the possible returns which in some cases like the mentioned AF15 can outperform even after tax considerations.

I purchased a cgc 3.0 AF15 in 2013 for $5000, and today gpa for that book is $23500. Very good return for 7-8 years.

Do we dare talk about Mask Comics 1 and 2? @thehumantorch

I don’t see anything wrong with including this as part of a diversified portfolio. The big books are worth too much now not to consider them as investments.

Many of my books have outperformed my blue chip stocks.

 

[the blob]

13 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

my figures came directly from GPA, took an average instead of hi-low.

While I don't think buying comics is a great idea as investments, I do feel I have to point out the possible returns which in some cases like the mentioned AF15 can outperform even after tax considerations.

I purchased a cgc 3.0 AF15 in 2013 for $5000, and today gpa for that book is $23500. Very good return for 7-8 years.

Do we dare talk about Mask Comics 1 and 2? @thehumantorch

The AF 15 might be one book that, depending on which years you are looking at, did outperform the S&P 500... Since 2000 most definitely (though 2000 GPA data is tricky). I'm just sayin right now you can bin an AF 15 for $41K from a reputable board member on ebay and there's another one at $41.5K, so $57K does not seem to be FMV: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amazing-Fantasy-15-CGC-5-0-Marvel-1962-Holy-Grail-1st-Appearance-of-Spider-man/352987982264?hash=item522fb929b8:g:A60AAOSwGBpd5svc

I burned myself getting out of the market. I looked smart for a while, but I probably lost $30-50K being chicken and waiting for it to bottom out. It did, but I thought there was more bloodletting and it didn't happen. Thank goodness my retirement plans do not depend on my stock market gut instincts because I'd be in trouble. My 401K will be a lifestyle cushion, not what I actually live off of.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by the blob

[Artboy99]

1 minute ago, piper said:

I don’t see anything wrong with including this as part of a diversified portfolio. The big books are worth too much now not to consider them as investments.

Many of my books have outperformed my blue chip stocks.

 

I agree.

The Mask Comics 1 CGC 5.5 and Mask Comics 2 CGC 4.0 I purchased for a combined total of 3200 usd in 2013 recently sold for $48,000 usd in almost the same grades. Not bad for 7 years.

[William-James88]

41 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

neither can investing in the S&P Index. The value of the book goes up more. What an interesting conversation though.

Plenty of banks offer funds where you can have 50$ systematic investments. So I dont get the point of you arguing against that. 

[Artboy99]

2 minutes ago, the blob said:

The AF 15 might be one book that, depending on which years you are looking at, did outperform the A&P 500... Since 2000 most definitely (though 2000 GPA data is tricky). I'm just sayin right now you can bin an AF 15 for $41K from a reputable board member on ebay and there's another one at $41.5K, so $57K does not seem to be FMV: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amazing-Fantasy-15-CGC-5-0-Marvel-1962-Holy-Grail-1st-Appearance-of-Spider-man/352987982264?hash=item522fb929b8:g:A60AAOSwGBpd5svc

you are right, 57,000 is the high on gpa in 2020.  Still, even at $41,000 that is pretty good return 

[piper]

2 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

I agree.

The Mask Comics 1 CGC 5.5 and Mask Comics 2 CGC 4.0 I purchased for a combined total of 3200 usd in 2013 recently sold for $48,000 usd in almost the same grades. Not bad for 7 years.

I also understand the comic market much better than the stock market. I leave the stock picking to my broker.

[Artboy99]

Just now, William-James88 said:

Plenty of banks offer funds where you can have 50$ systematic investments. So I dont get the point of you arguing against that. 

i am not arguing against that at all.

[the blob]

5 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

you are right, 57,000 is the high on gpa in 2020.  Still, even at $41,000 that is pretty good return 

$57K would, interestingly, be nearly an exact match with $16K invested in the S&P for the 10 years in question

[namisgr]

1 hour ago, Mr.Fantastic said:

How is this tracked though? Are you speaking of collectors who actually make a living selling comics vs someone else that would just be selling them?

I'm speaking of comics as an investment.  You don't need to be someone who makes their living selling comics to owe taxes on your profits after selling them.  And the rate on collectibles is significantly higher than it is on capital gains from investments held more than a year in an IRA or 401k.  So that's a disadvantage to using high dollar value comics as an investment compared to traditional investment assets.

Edited January 23, 2021 by namisgr

[the blob]

15 minutes ago, piper said:

I also understand the comic market much better than the stock market. I leave the stock picking to my broker.

Trusting the S&P 500 or some other broad index to deliver sufficient LONG TERM returns doesn't require that much understanding (I say long term because you can find a bad 10 year stretch, no doubt, but saving for your retirement is a 20-40 year process), just a general faith in the U.S. (and other countries to the etent the S&P 500 reflect the too) economy. If the economy that is reflected in that sort of index goes totally third world comics are going down with it too.

Edited January 23, 2021 by the blob

[bc]

Cool discussion.

Think there are some comparisons being used that aren't necessarily equivalents. Sure investing in traditional financial tools like IRAs, 401Ks and Index Funds may offer only a modest increase over a 10 year period.

But that comparison to a specific book's increase in a specific grade over the same period (like AF15 CGC5.0) isn't really a fair comparison.

Investing in a specific stock (let's say Netflix) 10 years ago would have provided a 35% Average Annual Return. Nvidia provided nearly a 40% Average Annual Return.

Don't think we've ever seen any specific book go up 35% per year over any extended period.

Comics as a small part of your investment portfolio is cool (and fun), not trying to disparage that at all !

-bc

 

 

[Randall Dowling]

12 minutes ago, namisgr said:

I'm speaking of comics as an investment.  You don't need to be someone who makes their living selling comics to owe taxes on your profits after selling them.  And the rate on collectibles is significantly higher than it is on capital gains from investments held more than a year in an IRA or 401k.  So that's a disadvantage to using high dollar value comics as an investment compared to traditional investment assets.

This.  Most are unaware of that significant delta.

[the blob]

6 minutes ago, bc said:

Cool discussion.

Think there are some comparisons being used that aren't necessarily equivalents. Sure investing in traditional financial tools like IRAs, 401Ks and Index Funds may offer only a modest increase over a 10 year period.

But that comparison to a specific book's increase in a specific grade over the same period (like AF15 CGC5.0) isn't really a fair comparison.

Investing in a specific stock (let's say Netflix) 10 years ago would have provided a 35% Average Annual Return. Nvidia provided nearly a 40% Average Annual Return.

Don't think we've ever seen any specific book go up 35% per year over any extended period.

Comics as a small part of your investment portfolio is cool (and fun), not trying to disparage that at all !

-bc

 

 

The point made by someone else is that, in fact, over the last 10 years something as generic as the S&P 500 has given  13.6% rate of return, which is not so modest, it has done as well as, or better than, AF 15 over that period. Picking individual company stocks is tricky stuff. For every tesla there are 10 busts.

 

[bc]

4 hours ago, shadroch said:

 Also you need to know your audience.

When selling a $100,000 book, you have a pretty small pool of buyers.

If you have 100 $1,000 books, the buying pool is much bigger.

Have 1000 $100 books and your buying pool  is the size of the ocean.

This is well worth repeating.

To me, liquidity, even if it requires a penalty, is a pretty important factor as well as the annual return.

Not sure if I want to deal with 1000 books ever again tho   

-bc

[bc]

1 minute ago, the blob said:

The point made by someone else is that, in fact, over the last 10 years something as generic as the S&P 500 has given  13.6% rate of return, which is not so modest, it has done as well as, or better than, AF 15 over that period. Picking individual company stocks is tricky stuff. For every tesla there are 10 busts.

 

100% 

Couldn't agree with you more 

Just trying to make the comparisons a little more balanced.

-bc

[Mercury Man]

Between March 2020 and now, if you put money into the SPDR ETF, you are at almost a 60% profit.   Now it took a pandemic to do it but.....that's a huge jump in about 10 months.  It may never happen again in our lifetime, but it did happen.