Comics as an investment for retirement 2 2

[shadroch]

47 minutes ago, Glassman10 said:

I inquired about the cap gains. You are right that it indeed is 28 percent and that indeed is what we paid. We did have costs and they were factored in . The AF15 was a substantial book and it had costs for consignment at 8.75. We did not have sales tax since it's a NH sale but look at what goes to govt or handlers, but once you hit those kinds of numbers doing ten dollar sales, I have a tendency to  think that it has to be an act of love driving it, not profit. I kept all the JIM /Thor run just because I love it so. Every one bought on the newsstand. . It just seems like crazy making work to root through dollar boxes given the return.  The accountant around here says to stick to Mastercard. 

 

 

It's not a job, it's a hobby and an adventure.  

[thunsicker]

On 1/23/2021 at 12:06 PM, KPR Comics said:

S&P annual return 2010-2020 is 13.6%.  Just sayin.

Plus when you sell you get taxed at a lower capital gains tax rate.

On 1/23/2021 at 12:28 PM, Artboy99 said:

devils advocate: one could say the same about an AF15 purchase.

a cgc 5.0 purchased for $16000 inn 2010 then sold for $57000 10 years later is amazing return

So, this would be above average return for comics (like buying google, apple, or tesla in 2010) and that gain would come to...13.5% per year, .1% a year behind the broad based s&p 500. 

This is not to say don't put some money in comics.  Maybe 5%-10% of your total investment portfolio, but don't go pulling lots of funds from your main line investments to put them in comics.

[thunsicker]

5 hours ago, Randall Dowling said:

10 hours ago, Hamlet said:

...my wife will be stuck dealing with 1000s of $3 books.  She knows to lean on @Randall Dowlingfor help, who will also probably not be thrilled to deal with them.  Sorry buddy, hoarders gotta hoard.

I got you covered, pal.  However, I think there's a better chance our deal will go the other way.  

Damn it.  There goes my plan on having either of you take care of my collection when I'm gone.  I guess I'll have to have @cosmic farmboy or @143ksk take care of them for me.  We Minnesotans have to stick together.

[143ksk]

7 minutes ago, thunsicker said:

Damn it.  There goes my plan on having either of you take care of my collection when I'm gone.  I guess I'll have to have @cosmic farmboy or @143ksk take care of them for me.  We Minnesotans have to stick together.

Edited January 25, 2021 by 143ksk

[thunsicker]

On 1/23/2021 at 6:11 PM, Math Teacher said:

I just checked this, using a CGC 3.5 as my example.

2010: High - $6,000, Low - $4,183
2020: High - $21,500, Low - $16,800

If you use the two highs, AF #15 3.5 has shown 258.3% growth, or 23.5% per year.
If you use the two lows, AF #15 3.5 has shown 301.6% growth, or 27.4% per year.

This only applies to a CGC 3.5 book. Other grades would probably be different.

Are you really a math teacher?

the 10th root of 3.583 is 1.136 so a 258.3% growth is 13.6% per year

The 10th root of 4.016 is 1.149 so a 301.6% growth is 14.9% per year.

[the blob]

28 minutes ago, thunsicker said:

Are you really a math teacher?

the 10th root of 3.583 is 1.136 so a 258.3% growth is 13.6% per year

The 10th root of 4.016 is 1.149 so a 301.6% growth is 14.9% per year.

OK, we went over this a while ago in the thread, math teacher acknowledged he was looking at it the wrong way and fixed his calculations

[thunsicker]

2 minutes ago, the blob said:

31 minutes ago, thunsicker said:

Are you really a math teacher?

the 10th root of 3.583 is 1.136 so a 258.3% growth is 13.6% per year

The 10th root of 4.016 is 1.149 so a 301.6% growth is 14.9% per year.

OK, we went over this a while ago in the thread, math teacher acknowledged he was looking at it the wrong way and fixed his calculations

Sorry, didn't read that far ahead.  Didn't mean to reopen old wounds.

[the blob]

On 1/23/2021 at 5:44 PM, bc said:

This is well worth repeating.

To me, liquidity, even if it requires a penalty, is a pretty important factor as well as the annual return.

Not sure if I want to deal with 1000 books ever again tho   

-bc

The $100K book is always going to sell. Maybe you need to consign it to the right auctioneer, but it is worth $100K because there's a genuine market for it.

The same is true for the $1000 books, although some of the more obscure ones might have a less clearly defined market and price point. But your $1000 SA marvel key is going to wind up selling for $800-$1200 90%+ of the time.

The $100 book is a lot trickier, Wider price variations. 

[Randall Dowling]

1 hour ago, thunsicker said:

Damn it.  There goes my plan on having either of you take care of my collection when I'm gone.  I guess I'll have to have @cosmic farmboy or @143ksk take care of them for me.  We Minnesotans have to stick together.

You know, what you're saying is actually kind of sensible.  Why couldn't 5 board members all be on a list for helping family with our collections in case something happens to one of us (in this case, Minnesotans)?  You could prioritize it for who to call first, etc.  There's no reason the deal @Hamlet and I made couldn't be expanded (I already have a similar deal with @Stevemmg to help out so it wouldn't be just you, Hamlet!).

I just don't want family members to have to sort through it and I want them to benefit as much as possible.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Oh boy...

[theCapraAegagrus]

If you're just in it to make money, go see what that Rally Road BS is all about.

Let comic book people buy and enjoy comics. It's not a different form of currency.

[Glassman10]

13 hours ago, shadroch said:

It's not a job, it's a hobby and an adventure.  

I understand that within limits. Planning one's retirement shouldn't be an adventure in uncertainty like that in my mind. I think those of us who began doing this 50 years back just loved the comics for the most part. I mean Howard Rogofsky was just about the only one selling comics. If you bought it then, it could be a major score both as a curious piece of ephemera and amazingly developing value. I don't see it quite that way these days. Between cap gains, commissions, shipping, slabbing, unsure auction results,  it takes a book, or a bunch of books worth $100 or more to make it viable. I doubt they were bought in the last five years. 

The point being that if you got in early, it's fine. If you want to inquire about buying comics as an investment now, that ship has sailed at least as a retirement income from the dollar box.  They are still a lot of fun. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Glassman10
demon spelling

[shadroch]

2 hours ago, Glassman10 said:

I understand that within limits. Planning one's retirement shouldn't be an adventure in uncertainty like that in my mind. I think those of us who began doing this 50 years back just loved the comics for the most part. I mean Howard Rogofsky was just about the only one selling comics. If you bought it then, it could be a major score both as a curious piece of ephemera and amazingly developing value. I don't see it quite that way these days. Between cap gains, commissions, shipping, slabbing, unsure auction results,  it takes a book, or a bunch of books worth $100 or more to make it viable. I doubt they were bought in the last five years. 

The point being that if you got in early, it's fine. If you want to inquire about buying comics as an investment now, that ship has sailed at least as a retirement income from the dollar box.  They are still a lot of fun. 

Nonsense.  I don't slab books, don't press books, and when you ship enough books to the same location you are talking fifty cents per book or less, and auction results tend to pretty steady for the stuff I sell.  The key is to buy cheap, and let other people do the heavy lifting.

No one is saying to put all your retirement hopes into being able to sell your comics at top dollar, but I assure you you could buy 100 $100 books in the next year and use them as the springboard of a nice income producing hobby in five years.

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by shadroch

[shadroch]

4 hours ago, Angel of Death said:

If you're just in it to make money, go see what that Rally Road BS is all about.

Let comic book people buy and enjoy comics. It's not a different form of currency.

If people weren't into it to make money, there would be no shows, no ebay, no CGC.  What happened to coins and stamps when dealers realized they weren't making enough money to stay in business?  A comic in a slab is little more than an alternative form of currency.  You didn't buy it to read it, did you? Did you buy it to use as a placemat? I've done that.  

Let me guess- you'd rather spend $800 on a book in a 9.8 slab than $100 on the same  book in a 9.0 slab because you are attracted by big numbers on the label?

[theCapraAegagrus]

2 minutes ago, shadroch said:

If people weren't into it to make money, there would be no shows, no ebay, no CGC.  What happened to coins and stamps when dealers realized they weren't making enough money to stay in business?  A comic in a slab is little more than an alternative form of currency.  You didn't buy it to read it, did you? Did you buy it to use as a placemat? I've done that.  

Let me guess- you'd rather spend $800 on a book in a 9.8 slab than $100 on the same  book in a 9.0 slab because you are attracted by big numbers on the label?

How did you extrapolate this rhetorical question?

[Math Teacher]

13 hours ago, thunsicker said:

Are you really a math teacher?

the 10th root of 3.583 is 1.136 so a 258.3% growth is 13.6% per year

The 10th root of 4.016 is 1.149 so a 301.6% growth is 14.9% per year.

Actually, there are 11 years from 2010 to 2020. 2020 - 2010 + 1 = 11. If you don't believe me, count it on your fingers. And yes, I realized my error prior to your initial post.

[shadroch]

4 minutes ago, Math Teacher said:

Actually, there are 11 years from 2010 to 2020. 2020 - 2010 + 1 = 11. If you don't believe me, count it on your fingers. And yes, I realized my error prior to your initial post.

From Jan 1 2010 to Jan 1 2020 is ten years.   From Dec 31st 2010 to Dec 31st 2020 is ten years.

Pretty sure it works that way for any date in 2010 you pick. 

[Math Teacher]

However, if you start at January 1, 2010, and end on December 31, 2010, it's eleven years. The starting points were not specified.

[shadroch]

9 minutes ago, Fistula said:

If you own issues #20-25 of ASM is that 5 issues? No, it's 6.

If you have three apples and I eat an orange, how many do you have?

Edited January 25, 2021 by shadroch

[ThothAmon]

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Old Judge Rainbow Morse would ask me that when he was my boss. That and the fact that I didn’t start to “collect “ comics in the mid 70’s until I found the Overstreet Price Guide. What, these things can be worth more than I paid for them?  

Edited January 25, 2021 by ThothAmon