Comics as an investment for retirement 2 2

[thunsicker]

55 minutes ago, Fistula said:

If you own issues #20-25 of ASM is that 5 issues? No, it's 6.

One of the interesting aspects of discrete mathematics vs continuous mathematics (such as would be used on continuous data, like time).

Edited January 25, 2021 by thunsicker

[William-James88]

I really don't see how any arguing about one year changes anything. The general idea is that some books can be as good an investment as the S&P or better. And some books can be terrible investments, especially compared to the S&P. So having some good books (AF15, why not?) in one's portfolio of total assets could be worthwhile for an extra diversification. Beyond that, I don't see any arguing. 

Personally, I find that buying comics to invest takes the fun out of it. But you do you.

[rexinnih]

Interesting topic as I prioritize maxing out my 401K contribution every year, with a nice company match and have been collecting comics for pretty much most of my life. 

I was born and raised in San Diego so was a regular at the Comic Con "when they sold comics" and the local comic store through the 80's. Being a collector in the 80's led to a large X-Men and Wolverine leaning collection but a bunch of other titles that have become "keys" of the era that I had no idea would increase in such value at that time. I just collected because I liked to collect. Fast forward many years and about X years ago (less than 10 but can't remember exactly), I went down to my mom's house and grabbed all my comic boxes. I wasn't that interested in continuing collecting as I had a family, kids and mortgage so went through, sold a bunch and kept a bunch that I really liked. Selling was based on what the value was at that time and didn't think I wanted to allocate space to comics that weren't valuable. Looking back, there are some that I can regret selling, looking at you Raphael One Shot, but that is the nature of the game. 

Long winded way of saying, I invest to invest in stocks for retirement playing the long game and not getting emotionally involved with the market ups and downs. 

For comics, I am collecting and having CGC slab keys for confirmation of grades and for eventual long term investment possibilities. I have, in my opinion in the last few years, spent big money, that's in the hundreds not thousands many of you deal in, on some keys because I want them (lower grade X-Men 1, FF 4, 6, 9, etc) but this is because I want them for a collection, not for investment. That said, when I do retire, hopefully in under 15 years, I'll have a nice 401K to supplement my Social Security and can then work to slowly sell off my collection as my two daughters have no interest in comics. Maybe they will have a grandkid to pass a few off to but that better not be for a long time. 

[Pat Thomas]

20 minutes ago, William-James88 said:

I really don't see how any arguing about one year changes anything. The general idea is that some books can be as good an investment as the S&P or better. And some books can be terrible investments, especially compared to the S&P. So having some good books (AF15, why not?) in one's portfolio of total assets could be worthwhile for an extra diversification. Beyond that, I don't see any arguing. 

Personally, I find that buying comics to invest takes the fun out of it. But you do you.

See, I think the possibility of a value increase is a bonus. I can still read my comics or just flip through my boxes looking at the covers. It doesn't bother me a bit that I can also use them in a financial crisis (which I've been forced to do once), or even a splurge, like to buy a new Corvette if I want to. It irritates me that people who consider themselves comic "purists" insist that comics are only meant to be read and otherwise worthless. And don't even get me started on digital "collections".

[William-James88]

2 minutes ago, Pat Thomas said:

See, I think the possibility of a value increase is a bonus. I can still read my comics or just flip through my boxes looking at the covers. It doesn't bother me a bit that I can also use them in a financial crisis (which I've been forced to do once), or even a splurge, like to buy a new Corvette if I want to. It irritates me that people who consider themselves comic "purists" insist that comics are only meant to be read and otherwise worthless. And don't even get me started on digital "collections".

I don't mind the idea of it as a bonus, I find it fun too. And I like that I am buying things I love and I see my money being turned into the nice comics I now have rather than just being thrown away. I guess I should have written "Personally, I find that buying comics ONLY to invest takes the fun out of it." But I figured that was implied.

[Mr.Fantastic]

15 minutes ago, William-James88 said:

I don't mind the idea of it as a bonus, I find it fun too. And I like that I am buying things I love and I see my money being turned into the nice comics I now have rather than just being thrown away. I guess I should have written "Personally, I find that buying comics ONLY to invest takes the fun out of it." But I figured that was implied.

Yes, this wasn't my original intent as the OP. I have varied investments already. Comics would be a small portion of the overall portfolio.  I got the idea because I like comic and collecting, the return on investment is secondary.

[Glassman10]

3 hours ago, shadroch said:

 You didn't buy it to read it, did you?

 

well, there's your approach. Of all the books I bought on the newsstand, I bought them to read them. I was sort of stupid that way. I stopped because the news stand price got too high.  20 cents? This was cutting into the beer fund. What I bought a lot of was Navajo rugs.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Glassman10

[thunsicker]

49 minutes ago, William-James88 said:

I really don't see how any arguing about one year changes anything. The general idea is that some books can be as good an investment as the S&P or better. And some books can be terrible investments, especially compared to the S&P. So having some good books (AF15, why not?) in one's portfolio of total assets could be worthwhile for an extra diversification. Beyond that, I don't see any arguing. 

Personally, I find that buying comics to invest takes the fun out of it. But you do you.

I'm not arguing for the sake of whether or not comics are a good investment.  I'm arguing because I think using mathematics correctly is something really important. 

As I stated earlier I think comics can be a decent addition to a retirement portfolio, just not a replacement for one.

[lostboys]

Will the always increasing population ever make modern age books valuable?

In 1995 there were 265 mill people in the US.

In 2021 there are 331 million.

I'm sure the Marvel movies must have created a new gen of buyers...no?

[Pat Thomas]

32 minutes ago, lostboys said:

Will the always increasing population ever make modern age books valuable?

In 1995 there were 265 mill people in the US.

In 2021 there are 331 million.

I'm sure the Marvel movies must have created a new gen of buyers...no?

The popular theory is that moviegoers don't become regular comic readers, and that's mostly true. However, there are some people who were brought in by the movies. I'm pretty sure I've seen some of the posters here mention that it was the movies that sparked their interest. For myself, I loved collecting earlier in life, but had eventually lost interest in them and sold my last few valuable ones in 1986. But when X-Men finally came out in 2000 as a live action movie after years of anticipation, I was excited to see it. Then Spidey finally had a worthy movie, and those two franchises awoke the passion in me. By the time Iron Man came out, I had begun tossing around the idea of collecting again. It took awhile, but finding dealers online who had issues of Avengers and ASM I remembered brought the memories of the stories front and center to me, and I finally got the itch to buy some of them, just to see if they held the same magic for me. It wasn't an outright explosion of buying after I read the first batch, but I did order some more a few months later. I was also catching up my Marvel history on Wikipedia while waiting on my books, and I found an lcs and bought even more back issues and some new ones. Then the floodgates opened, and I've accumulated thousands upon thousands of comics since 2010 when I started collecting in earnest. Probably have spent a small fortune on them, too. I sincerely doubt I would've bought a comic again in my life if the movies hadn't lit the initial fire in me. I've enjoyed every aspect of the hobby since I came back in and I've done my part supporting new comics and contributing to the upswing in back issue values since 2010. Comics also took the place of beer in my life after drinking almost daily for close to 30 years, and I never struggled or looked back. I doubt I'm the only lapsed reader the movies influenced.

[William-James88]

2 hours ago, lostboys said:

Will the always increasing population ever make modern age books valuable?

In 1995 there were 265 mill people in the US.

In 2021 there are 331 million.

I'm sure the Marvel movies must have created a new gen of buyers...no?

Modern age books are already valuable. Several modern books (keys) are already doing as well or better than a ton of silver age books (non keys). But as is the case with every era, if there is no demand then the book won't be valuable. You can still get silver age books for 5$. So it's not really the era that determines value, it's the demand for the book. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by William-James88

[shadroch]

3 hours ago, Glassman10 said:

well, there's your approach. Of all the books I bought on the newsstand, I bought them to read them. I was sort of stupid that way. I stopped because the news stand price got too high.  20 cents? This was cutting into the beer fund. What I bought a lot of was Navajo rugs.

You are comparing things for fifty years ago to today. No one today is buying a slabbed 9.8 to read. 

[shadroch]

3 hours ago, thunsicker said:

I'm not arguing for the sake of whether or not comics are a good investment.  I'm arguing because I think using mathematics correctly is something really important. 

As I stated earlier I think comics can be a decent addition to a retirement portfolio, just not a replacement for one.

Agree 100%.  A well balanced portfolio should include pre-1985  baseball cards, Star Wars figures from the first three movies, and most obviously Beanie Babys.

[KCOComics]

5 hours ago, Mr.Fantastic said:

Yes, this wasn't my original intent as the OP. I have varied investments already. Comics would be a small portion of the overall portfolio.  I got the idea because I like comic and collecting, the return on investment is secondary.

 

I would have a tough time considering comic books or a single comic book as part of my retirement portfolio. So if your retirement is dependent on being able to sell those comics at a XX% growth, I wouldn't do it. 

I also wouldn't withdraw from a Roth or 401k to put the $$ into comics. 

Now, if you have a well diversified portfolio and you have $$ outside of traditional retirement accounts, I don't see a problem with putting $30k into an AF15 and sitting on it for 20 years. 

I can't tell you if an AF15 will out earn an SP500 index fund.  I can tell you, I get allot more enjoyment looking at my comics then I do looking at my investments.  One thing to factor in is, collectibles are tax disadvantaged compared to traditional investments. 

Good luck! 

[Mr.Fantastic]

2 minutes ago, KCOComics said:

Now, if you have a well diversified portfolio and you have $$ outside of traditional retirement accounts, I don't see a problem with putting $30k into an AF15 and sitting on it for 20 years. 

 

^This^ is what i'm talkin bout.

[KCOComics]

1 minute ago, Mr.Fantastic said:

^This^ is what i'm talkin bout.

Then go for it! 

It's kind of like buying individual stocks vs mutual / index funds. Every now and then I'll throw some $$ at companies I believe in, but it's always a small % of my portfolio.  That way if an ENRON scenerio breaks out, I won't be risking my future.  

So if you believe comics will out perform Amazon (for example) go for it.   

 

 

[shadroch]

18 minutes ago, KCOComics said:

Then go for it! 

It's kind of like buying individual stocks vs mutual / index funds. Every now and then I'll throw some $$ at companies I believe in, but it's always a small % of my portfolio.  That way if an ENRON scenerio breaks out, I won't be risking my future.  

So if you believe comics will out perform Amazon (for example) go for it.   

 

 

If you make money spending  a few hours a week doing something you like, who cares if you outperform Amazon?

If given the choice, which would you do?

1) Invest $15,000 in the best AF #15 you can find and hold it ten years

2) Invest $15,000 in Amazon and hold it ten years

3) Invest $15,000 in the comics of your choice, wait a year and then send 10% of your books to auction. Hold 10% of sales to cover your taxes and reinvest the rest .  Repeat every month.  Does that sound like it would take more than ten hours a month to accomplish?

It's my 10-10-10 Plan.

Not everyone would choose Option C but the ones who do will be happy. 

By the Way- I understand how Glassman said he paid 10%.

If you buy a $500 book  and sell it for $1,000, you do owe a 28% tax but not on the $1,000

Ebay gets 10%, paypal get 3%, insurance, advertising, storage fees, ect add 5%, so your $1,000 book

nets you $820.  You paid $500 so your pretax profit is $320. Holding 10% of your sale price for taxes

put $90 aside and covered the 28% tax that was due.

 

[KCOComics]

6 hours ago, shadroch said:

If you make money spending  a few hours a week doing something you like, who cares if you outperform Amazon?

 

 

the Amazon example is more illustrative.

[Glassman10]

14 hours ago, shadroch said:

You are comparing things for fifty years ago to today. No one today is buying a slabbed 9.8 to read. 

I certainly agree with that. 

It would seen to me to be the case that the safety deposit box costs for that time need to be factored in unless you believe your books will somehow survive floods or fires. 

I sadly had to pay the 28% on all but the newsstand price on everything. We never insured it either. How unfortunate. The horror.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Glassman10

[William-James88]

57 minutes ago, Glassman10 said:

I certainly agree with that. 

It would seen to me to be the case that the safety deposit box costs for that time need to be factored in unless you believe your books will somehow survive floods or fires. 

I sadly had to pay the 28% on all but the newsstand price on everything. We never insured it either. How unfortunate. The horror.

Wait, what happened?