A Modest Proposal to Rethink Modern Comics 0

[fmaz]

First, a caveat.  If you're someone who "is so grateful that you stopped reading modern books years ago"  ... or "is pleased that you haven't paid any attention to a DC or Marvel character since 1975" ... we will all concede that you are the coolest, smartest, most wonderful person in the entire world.  So, with that in your back pocket, I think you should have no reason to share that not-helpful-in-the-slightest-special-insight-into-your-life here.  Thanks in advance!

In the past months, when I've received my mail orders from Midtown Comics, I've received these issues of Justice League which were, apparently, part of some larger "Death Metal" storyline. I could sort of figure out what was basically going on, but of course I don't know how it started, nor how it finished. I could go read some books online to figure it out, but you know, paying the same price I'd pay to buy a movie online, I'd prefer to at least get the serialized part of a story I was anticipating.  And now DC is off on another new tangent for a few months, which I need to wait out in my few Batman titles as well.  Oh well.  It's not just DC of course, Marvel likes the big crossover too.  I, for one, often enjoy these stories.  But what I don't like, as most people don't, is getting just fragments of them.

I was also reading today the latest issue of Iron Man.  Laughably, I believe this is issue #5, or #6.  Not sure. All I know is that it's the 5th or 6th reboot in the last 3-4 years. While not all of them have been excellent, some of them have been pretty good.  But apparently, despite Iron Man being THE most popular character in THE most popular movie franchise in the history of cinema... these books don't sell.  So they reboot and reboot and can't figure out why.

It's not just Iron Man, of course. This is repeated with tons of characters.

As we all have seen, the back issue market for comics is booming. Interest in these characters and their stories is very high.... so why can't the "big two" figure out an effective way to sell physical comics? I feel as if they're stuck banging their collective heads against the wall trying the same failed tactics over and over again, instead of trying something different.

Maybe this sounds crazy, but I've had this idea in my head for a while, and considering that there are a lot of smart people here who love comics... I thought I'd just put it out there and, I suppose, let you tell me how awful it is.

First of all, for the flagship titles that continue to sell well each month... Amazing Spider-Man, X-Men, Batman, Superman, and a select others... change nothing.  Keep doing what you're doing.  If people are buying the books in this format keep it going.

But for all other titles - STOP!  I don't mean stop producing Iron Man comics. I simply mean stop rebooting and publishing them.

If you've got a new creative team who comes up with a direction for an Iron Man book and you want to green light them? Do so.  But have them produce a full six-issue arc. And then release that IN FULL in trade paperback form.

These would not be reprints, they'd be fully-realized first printings (with covers) collected so that when someone plunks down $19.99 they're getting an entire story arc.  When it's done well, it'll be reviewed well, and it will sell! People will buy good reads. And collectors will buy up books like that because they will be collectible in the way any comic would be! And you'll stop having the bane of everyone's existence, all these remainder #2-#4 issues from every failed relaunch every six-months of a new title.   If that creative team has another arc in them, great! If you want to turn things over to someone else, whatever. But you'd be producing fully realized stories... which is the format in which people are accustomed to experiencing their entertainment. ESPECIALLY when they're sampling something.  And of course you can and should have continuity from arc to arc, but the idea should be that each arc is essentially a self-contained story.

Similarly... if you want to do a big crossover? Great! Once it's done, put it out all at once in a prestige format! And if you want to use different creative teams for each issue, do that! But allow people to purchase the whole thing at once! It's a great way to a) tell an epic story and b) introduce secondary characters.   If someone really pops from a crossover, maybe they get their own arc next?

I'm not advocating for the production of any fewer books, necessarily... I'm just saying that they should be presented in a way that would be more easily consumed. They'd be much more easily presented as gifts too. Both to introduce new fans to comics, or for comic fans to give people a "wish list" for holidays and birthdays.

That's it. That's my idea.

Would be curious to hear what people think.

Frank

[Namtak]

There are good reboot title like venom with knull but in the middle theres the war of realm in one or two issue destroying the importance of what was happening and that is annoying.i totally agree you want crossover make it on the sideline,not in the middle of a run,and that month or two every marvel comics were putting the crossover in all the main titles.its annoying.  

[BigLeagueCHEW]

Reboot all series, use the same characters (Introduce them in different issues other than the original), but go back to a fully illustrated book, pre digital cartoon junk. Hell, use the same type of paper from that era.

[THE_BEYONDER]

22 minutes ago, fmaz said:

First, a caveat.  If you're someone who "is so grateful that you stopped reading modern books years ago"  ... or "is pleased that you haven't paid any attention to a DC or Marvel character since 1975" ... we will all concede that you are the coolest, smartest, most wonderful person in the entire world.  So, with that in your back pocket, I think you should have no reason to share that not-helpful-in-the-slightest-special-insight-into-your-life here.  Thanks in advance!

In the past months, when I've received my mail orders from Midtown Comics, I've received these issues of Justice League which were, apparently, part of some larger "Death Metal" storyline. I could sort of figure out what was basically going on, but of course I don't know how it started, nor how it finished. I could go read some books online to figure it out, but you know, paying the same price I'd pay to buy a movie online, I'd prefer to at least get the serialized part of a story I was anticipating.  And now DC is off on another new tangent for a few months, which I need to wait out in my few Batman titles as well.  Oh well.  It's not just DC of course, Marvel likes the big crossover too.  I, for one, often enjoy these stories.  But what I don't like, as most people don't, is getting just fragments of them.

I was also reading today the latest issue of Iron Man.  Laughably, I believe this is issue #5, or #6.  Not sure. All I know is that it's the 5th or 6th reboot in the last 3-4 years. While not all of them have been excellent, some of them have been pretty good.  But apparently, despite Iron Man being THE most popular character in THE most popular movie franchise in the history of cinema... these books don't sell.  So they reboot and reboot and can't figure out why.

It's not just Iron Man, of course. This is repeated with tons of characters.

As we all have seen, the back issue market for comics is booming. Interest in these characters and their stories is very high.... so why can't the "big two" figure out an effective way to sell physical comics? I feel as if they're stuck banging their collective heads against the wall trying the same failed tactics over and over again, instead of trying something different.

Maybe this sounds crazy, but I've had this idea in my head for a while, and considering that there are a lot of smart people here who love comics... I thought I'd just put it out there and, I suppose, let you tell me how awful it is.

First of all, for the flagship titles that continue to sell well each month... Amazing Spider-Man, X-Men, Batman, Superman, and a select others... change nothing.  Keep doing what you're doing.  If people are buying the books in this format keep it going.

But for all other titles - STOP!  I don't mean stop producing Iron Man comics. I simply mean stop rebooting and publishing them.

If you've got a new creative team who comes up with a direction for an Iron Man book and you want to green light them? Do so.  But have them produce a full six-issue arc. And then release that IN FULL in trade paperback form.

These would not be reprints, they'd be fully-realized first printings (with covers) collected so that when someone plunks down $19.99 they're getting an entire story arc.  When it's done well, it'll be reviewed well, and it will sell! People will buy good reads. And collectors will buy up books like that because they will be collectible in the way any comic would be! And you'll stop having the bane of everyone's existence, all these remainder #2-#4 issues from every failed relaunch every six-months of a new title.   If that creative team has another arc in them, great! If you want to turn things over to someone else, whatever. But you'd be producing fully realized stories... which is the format in which people are accustomed to experiencing their entertainment. ESPECIALLY when they're sampling something.  And of course you can and should have continuity from arc to arc, but the idea should be that each arc is essentially a self-contained story.

Similarly... if you want to do a big crossover? Great! Once it's done, put it out all at once in a prestige format! And if you want to use different creative teams for each issue, do that! But allow people to purchase the whole thing at once! It's a great way to a) tell an epic story and b) introduce secondary characters.   If someone really pops from a crossover, maybe they get their own arc next?

I'm not advocating for the production of any fewer books, necessarily... I'm just saying that they should be presented in a way that would be more easily consumed. They'd be much more easily presented as gifts too. Both to introduce new fans to comics, or for comic fans to give people a "wish list" for holidays and birthdays.

That's it. That's my idea.

Would be curious to hear what people think.

Frank

So basically....

Release full seasons all at once, rather than individual episodes?

[Namtak]

5 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

So basically....

Release full seasons all at once, rather than individual episodes?

I tought we were talking about comics not Netflix then again dc does crossover all the time in arrowverse .....maybe beyonder is on to something here.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Namtak

[bc]

9 minutes ago, Namtak said:

I tought we were talking about comics not Netflix then again dc does crossover all the time in arrowverse .....maybe beyonder is on to something here.

Don't want to speak for @THE_BEYONDER, but I think his point is instead of releasing these arcs and crossovers and reboots in the regular monthly format, the original posters idea would be to release those in a single compilation.

Your Netflix analogy is actually pretty spot on - instead of watching each months episode, the publisher releases a whole season at once.

-bc

[fmaz]

24 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

So basically....

Release full seasons all at once, rather than individual episodes?

Yeah, that's basically the idea... for the non-selling titles. Seasons/story arcs... whatever you want to call them. But it makes them collectible too, from a comic perspective.

[Namtak]

5 minutes ago, fmaz said:

Yeah, that's basically the idea... for the non-selling titles. Seasons/story arcs... whatever you want to call them. But it makes them collectible too, from a comic perspective.

More like tpb like the  dk2 format was they did something like that with power ranger twice already mmm boom comics smarter than dc marvel??

Edited January 26, 2021 by Namtak

[KCOComics]

4 minutes ago, bc said:

Don't want to speak for @THE_BEYONDER, but I think his point is instead of releasing these arcs and crossovers and reboots in the regular monthly format, the original posters idea would be to release those in a single compilation.

Your Netflix analogy is actually pretty spot on - instead of watching each months episode, the publisher releases a whole season at once.

-bc

That's what graphic novels are, right? 

My personal belief is, graphic novels will replace comics. My kids really don't read comics, but I spend a fortune on Dogman and Captain Underpants. 

 

 

[fmaz]

3 minutes ago, KCOComics said:

That's what graphic novels are, right? 

My personal belief is, graphic novels will replace comics. My kids really don't read comics, but I spend a fortune on Dogman and Captain Underpants. 

 

 

Well maybe that could happen at some point... what I'm proposing might be an intermediary step. Instead of straight out graphic novels... continue with serialized issues, just for smaller selling titles release them in story arcs so as to sell to your market better. This would also bring "new" books onto platforms like Amazon, if the publishers wanted to, as a means of distribution.

[THE_BEYONDER]

21 minutes ago, bc said:

Don't want to speak for @THE_BEYONDER, but I think his point is instead of releasing these arcs and crossovers and reboots in the regular monthly format, the original posters idea would be to release those in a single compilation.

Your Netflix analogy is actually pretty spot on - instead of watching each months episode, the publisher releases a whole season at once.

-bc

[letsgrumble]

If you don't mind waiting 4 months for new releases, there's always the Marvel Unlimited digital format approach. You can binge on all the Marvel titles all you want, new and old. I bought a years subscription when it was on sale and have been reading some of the recent stuff. I'm liking Daredevil. 

[Ken Aldred]

It still just sounds to me like a 'quicker' release of a collected edition, trade paperback format.

Although, against that, there's also a significant delay in the process as the creators actually get around to finishing the complete story arc. We've seen some titles where the final issue takes many months to be published, gone off schedule.

There's also the problem of coherence in extended modern narratives, where main plot details are filled out in side storylines, or those mini-series might meander off with little real relevance to the main story and affect its overall flow and progression. Selectivity about what to incorporate in the collected edition, and when to do so or to exclude. 

Edited January 27, 2021 by Ken Aldred

[William-James88]

Sounds like what DC has been doing with the Earth One books. Sounds good to me, those sell fine.

[speedcake]

I still buy Amazing Spider-Man and Daredevil, so I guess I'm allowed to comment.

This is an interesting idea that I think has been bandied about in some variation or another for a while now.  I think I'd prefer it to the current constant re-boots. If the quality of writing and ART were drastically improved, which is a must..

I'd still very much prefer at least the tentpole titles to keep coming out as singles, no more re-boots, and Marvel and D.C. do whatever it takes to improve the quality of writing and art across all their titles. Pretty covers alone do nothing to bring old readers back, much less attract and keep new readers.

But if comics only existed in the format suggested by the OP, and if that was proven to be a sustainable thing that keeps the medium relevant for generations to come, then sign me up.

Edited January 27, 2021 by speedcake

[fmaz]

1 hour ago, speedcake said:

I still buy Amazing Spider-Man and Daredevil, so I guess I'm allowed to comment.

This is an interesting idea that I think has been bandied about in some variation or another for a while now.  I think I'd prefer it to the current constant re-boots. If the quality of writing and ART were drastically improved, which is a must..

I'd still very much prefer at least the tentpole titles to keep coming out as singles, no more re-boots, and Marvel and D.C. do whatever it takes to improve the quality of writing and art across all their titles. Pretty covers alone do nothing to bring old readers back, much less attract and keep new readers.

But if comics only existed in the format suggested by the OP, and if that was proven to be a sustainable thing that keeps the medium relevant for generations to come, then sign me up.

I agree ... as mentioned, I think the tentpole titles SHOULD remain as singles.  This is really an idea for everything else, and for crossovers.  Now, if successful might it prove the road forward for everything? Sure I suppose. Every industry eventually just copies successful things even if they don't understand why it was successful.  LOL.

[miraclemet]

Publishers would be on the hook to pay for the cost of producing a whole arc, without knowing if it will be recieved well or not. TPBs cost more to produce than the sum of the individual issues.plus they have the benefit of ad space being sold.

[Schmakt]

You had me at "stop." There are just too freaking many at $4 or $5 a pop... even if you're getting 50% off via pre-orders. I keep trying to stretch back out and follow Spidey or the X-Men... and wish I could follow the whole universe again, but it's too expensive! And it's too "corporate."

I love that they will publish so many books which means more artists get a chance to shine, but so much feels so reined in now from a story standpoint. And way too interconnected. I used to love the occasional crossover... and still do follow the "events," but I was trying to get into Hickman's X-Men after years away... just as I was getting comfortable, along comes X of Swords... which was fine, I guess, but it was super convoluted and included sooo many books. I dropped X-Men from my pull list. 

One thing that would make me buy more comics not in my wheelhouse? Put them back in grocery stores for $1 - $2... I would buy so much random stuff if it was just sitting there for a buck or so... even reprints... make them not collectible somehow...?

Comics just need to be in places that aren't just comics stores. And they need to cost less than lunch.

[shadroch]

1 hour ago, Schmakt said:

You had me at "stop." There are just too freaking many at $4 or $5 a pop... even if you're getting 50% off via pre-orders. I keep trying to stretch back out and follow Spidey or the X-Men... and wish I could follow the whole universe again, but it's too expensive! And it's too "corporate."

I love that they will publish so many books which means more artists get a chance to shine, but so much feels so reined in now from a story standpoint. And way too interconnected. I used to love the occasional crossover... and still do follow the "events," but I was trying to get into Hickman's X-Men after years away... just as I was getting comfortable, along comes X of Swords... which was fine, I guess, but it was super convoluted and included sooo many books. I dropped X-Men from my pull list. 

One thing that would make me buy more comics not in my wheelhouse? Put them back in grocery stores for $1 - $2... I would buy so much random stuff if it was just sitting there for a buck or so... even reprints... make them not collectible somehow...?

Comics just need to be in places that aren't just comics stores. And they need to cost less than lunch.

If they are being sold in a grocery store for a dollar, doesn't that pretty much mean they aren't collectible?

 

[theCapraAegagrus]

I don't agree with releasing 6 issues in 1 TPB initially, but I do agree with, "stop publishing issues of this title until someone has an arc planned out". They also need to stop with the endless crossovers.

I've been saying it for years, that they need to consolidate artists and writers. Keep the great ones and fire the dreck. The medium needs to be full of greatness to thrive.