Biggest over-payment on a comic you've seen? 4 4

[Randall Ries]

7 minutes ago, MatterEaterLad said:

This is a dark thought, but that Batman 227 for $30k looks like market manipulation.

It happens all the time in the fine art world.

A collector with 5 pieces from a certain artist will auction one and have a ring of bidders shill it up to a ridiculous price.

That new sale price becomes the benchmark value for the collector's other pieces, and with the new demand, those pieces then sell for a similarly ridiculous price. 

 

Absolutely. I get that someone "had to have" that Bat 227. It IS a nice copy. And if you have the do-ray-mi then why not? Trouble is  - as you allude to - it becomes the norm. Metro blasted its price from $9k to $30k for theirs with really no justification. IMO, these one-off auctions aren't the problem when you have one Daddy Warbucks Hell bent on having that book. It's the subsequent dealers who see the auction results, then just "decide" that's what the book is going to be worth now. Metro's 9.8 was sitting there at $9k. I expect it to sit there a lot longer. I hope.

The other thing Adamantium was getting into was where does that leave the rest of us? We have to save for the books we want. What I see happening is stock market investors who have no real interest in comics but are afraid of Wall Street volatility ala COVID have been heading over to our side of the tracks since mid 2020 to invest in tangibles. I have been looking at Phantom Stranger Adams covers and wondering "Why are these so dang expensive?" (I didn't say "dang". I am MUCH more colorful than that). Their willingness to invest and having the money to do so is going to do to comics what Fanny and Freddie did to housing in the lower-mid 2000's. They are going to do what they ALWAYS do. They are going to create a phony value bubble and when things get hunky-dorry again, they will sell off their books, causing a flood of easy issues and the value drops out.

I used to wish comics were a little more accepted by the squirming masses. It's such a cool medium and they are missing out! I don't wish that anymore. I should have known they would take it to the lowest common denominator. I saw it with 1989's "Batman" and REALLY saw it with "Green Lantern". The common collector with love in their hearts for the medium may well be attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis.
 

[vheflin]

Didn't this one sell for $85k? It's up again on the clink starting 2/11 ...

[comicginger1789]

I mean, if I am a die hard Mister Miracle fan, who has the run in 9.8 condition (and I have done so very affordably over the years), then maybe I splurge to complete the set. Just saying....but agree, for majority, that is a TON for a book like that. 

[Randall Ries]

9 hours ago, vheflin said:

Didn't this one sell for $85k? It's up again on the clink starting 2/11 ...

I know it's mean, but I hope the seller takes a giant bath on it. Don't wimp out. Make it "No Reserve".

 

[Randall Ries]

8 hours ago, comicginger1789 said:

I mean, if I am a die hard Mister Miracle fan, who has the run in 9.8 condition (and I have done so very affordably over the years), then maybe I splurge to complete the set. Just saying....but agree, for majority, that is a TON for a book like that. 

Right on. We all splurge once in awhile. I splurged to finally complete my signed/graded set of the "Hush" story line in Batman. At some point just wanted it over with. I'm kinda regretting the demise of the OPG to be honest. Only way to keep these prices reasonable is to refuse to buy overpriced books. Is it guide? At least in the neighborhood? No? Go pound sand down a rat hole. Why are company's like Metro and HA allowed to set values?

[Gotham Kid]

On 1/28/2021 at 4:32 AM, Rip said:

69K for an Avengers 4 9.6 is one of the worst I've seen

$91,500

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/comics/marvel_comics/comics-copy-of-the-avengers-4-sells-for-a-record-price-a30675

"there are only 7 copies certified in this grade and none higher."

Today

I think the AV4 purchase is the record holder for a comic book.

Edited January 29, 2021 by Gotham Kid

[Gotham Kid]

Actually no, the AS3 Billy Wright copy is the record holder.

200K 1 week after auction ended.

Same copy re-sold for $72,000 in 2019

Edited January 29, 2021 by Gotham Kid

[PKJ]

7 hours ago, Gotham Kid said:

Actually no, the AS3 Billy Wright copy is the record holder.

200K 1 week after auction ended.

Same copy re-sold for $72,000 in 2019

That one came with Prison time.

[MetalPSI]

If you want to talk about market manipulation, look at The Maxx ashcans or the Wizard 1/2 test prints. 

All of those were below $500 and are now mostly trading over that. Just in the last 10 years

[jharvey]

Silver Surfer #3 with color touch only mentioned at the very bottom of the wall of text: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Silver-Surfer-3-NM-9-4-White-pages-1968-Marvel-1st-Mephisto-appearance-/164277920352?hash=item263fba2260%3Ag%3AnwwAAOSwJSJfNzmy&nma=true&si=NtPaDsLvMV7HcgmKjYxdYmNz8IM%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[THE_BEYONDER]

23 minutes ago, jharvey said:

Silver Surfer #3 with color touch only mentioned at the very bottom of the wall of text: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Silver-Surfer-3-NM-9-4-White-pages-1968-Marvel-1st-Mephisto-appearance-/164277920352?hash=item263fba2260%3Ag%3AnwwAAOSwJSJfNzmy&nma=true&si=NtPaDsLvMV7HcgmKjYxdYmNz8IM%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

[KCOComics]

1 minute ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

 

Danny D strikes again. 

But people should be reading thoroughly before buying anything raw on the bay! 

[Gotham Kid]

1 hour ago, PKJ said:

That one came with Prison time.

yup

[RaleighComicBookCollector]

6 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

 

Yes that guy is a Piece of skat. 

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

9 hours ago, Gotham Kid said:

Actually no, the AS3 Billy Wright copy is the record holder.

200K 1 week after auction ended.

Same copy re-sold for $72,000 in 2019

Having spent years as a Texas prosecutor, working continuously with DA investigators, this story boggles my mind.  To think a Houston DA investigator would throw it all away to steal a funny book is the perfect cherry on top of this sordid tale.

[Pat Thomas]

The current 9.8 craze is one of the main drivers of these outrageous sales. Collectors (especially newcomers) view CGC grading as the "official" real grade of a comic. It isn't, though. From what I understand, their grading is determined by multiple graders and the average between them. And these graders have been trained by CGC (an idea for a company not regulated by any sanctioning body with real authority or rules). They have their own set of rules, which they determined themselves when they went into business, based on the Overstreet standards that are really just general guidelines that can be interpreted differently (sometimes by the same grader). A CGC 9.8 graded comic is now perceived as absolute as long as it is undisturbed in the slab, even when an obvious defect is present.

Grading wasn't meant to be determine thousands of dollars difference in value because of 2-4 10ths of a point in a grade. It started off as a service that would detect restoration and place the comic in a sealed container for preservation. The actual grade was more of a bonus, and the fine print even said that the grade itself was really just an educated guess. They have collectors thinking now that a slabbed book is infinitely more valuable than a raw one, but the only real difference between their grade and one I assign to a book is a fancy case and label that says so.

Props to everybody who got in at CGC on the bottom floor. I doubt they ever imagined it could be as lucrative as it has become. They pioneered the whole comic grading industry, they got to set it all up to their own specifications, and nobody questions them. Wish I would've though of it.

[Randall Ries]

3 minutes ago, Pat Thomas said:

The current 9.8 craze is one of the main drivers of these outrageous sales. Collectors (especially newcomers) view CGC grading as the "official" real grade of a comic. It isn't, though. From what I understand, their grading is determined by multiple graders and the average between them. And these graders have been trained by CGC (an idea for a company not regulated by any sanctioning body with real authority or rules). They have their own set of rules, which they determined themselves when they went into business, based on the Overstreet standards that are really just general guidelines that can be interpreted differently (sometimes by the same grader). A CGC 9.8 graded comic is now perceived as absolute as long as it is undisturbed in the slab, even when an obvious defect is present.

Grading wasn't meant to be determine thousands of dollars difference in value because of 2-4 10ths of a point in a grade. It started off as a service that would detect restoration and place the comic in a sealed container for preservation. The actual grade was more of a bonus, and the fine print even said that the grade itself was really just an educated guess. They have collectors thinking now that a slabbed book is infinitely more valuable than a raw one, but the only real difference between their grade and one I assign to a book is a fancy case and label that says so.

Props to everybody who got in at CGC on the bottom floor. I doubt they ever imagined it could be as lucrative as it has become. They pioneered the whole comic grading industry, they got to set it all up to their own specifications, and nobody questions them. Wish I would've though of it.

Yeah, it's called "grifting" IMO. The large comic book sellers like Metro, HA and the like along with CGC have determined what will be and how it will be. I could probably make a tidy living if I learned how to spot restoration and had the tools to do so. Because that's really all there should be to it. I am happy to drop my raw books into a sturdy top loader and admire them that way. Unless I have something really rare or noteworthy, I don't do it. I want a nice copy that presents well and is complete. Not a banger. Almost all the brand new books getting 9.8 aren't worth diddly. They probably won't be ever, by and large, unless some character sticks to the wall. What are the odds of that? Remember those long boxes of back issues that sat in every brick and mortar for years? Filling virtually the majoroty of floor space? People are "CGC'ing" those books. Books worth zippo with no significance.

Conversely, I think it's foolish how some people will say "Yah! I wanna READ my copy of Bat 1!" WHAT? WHY? Someone was offering a cracked out Mile High copy of something in the 4 sale section and telling us about it being a Mile High. It won't be for long with that attitude. There was a reason why those were in grand shape. No one was handling them with their Buffalo chicken wings stained fingers and breathing their caffeine breath all over them. Takes an egomaniac to handle rare books like that "just because I want to." Maybe you have too much money and too little common sense. Maybe when you die and the book moves on to someone else, it should still be pristine.

I guess I am saying a book like Bat 1 or All Star 3 SHOULD be graded and encapsulated. And retired. You can read the reprints. Leave the nice books alone.

Grading and the large companies have done what they always do. Start out small at a reasonable price and service. They knock themselves out to ingratiate themselves to their customers. When they grow out of control, quality suffers and everything including "value" goes through the roof. A whole lot of ambiguity walks in through the front door. Then, they start dictating terms that ecome "market standards". Raw books in the same grade neighborhood are MUCH less expensive than their CGC'ed counterparts and even CBCS books are less expensive because - as Pat Thomas points out - CGC is perceived as the final word on grading and they aren't. I have seen absolutely wrong grading pointing both ways in both companies. One isn't better than the other at all. If PGX grades a book as a 10.0 and there is literally no flaw whatsoever on the book anywhere, people will rip it apart not because it's flawless. Because PGX graded it and it can't POSSIBLY be a 10.0. See the same grade in CGC and it's end of story. "That's a 10.0! WOW!"

The collector I like best is the one who proudly displays their raw 3.0 copy of Avengers 4 and declares "I am so happy with this book". Because they love the book and its significance, not the sordid topic of coin that has to be attached to every transaction.

I bought this book not because there were only 300 printed. I bought it because I loved Archie comics when I was a kid. I never laughed so hard in my life. And the obvious homage. And Veronica as a vampire. It's fun. A private joke almost.

I really think HA and things like that are going to do more harm than good for the average collector in the long run. We average collectors always get priced out of our own hobby when speculators come to town. And never leave.

[the blob]

Oh well, I guess us non hedge fund managers (well, the ones who didn't try to short gamestop...)  can't get a 9.8 of some books. Such is life. I can't afford a Picasso either. VG+ used to be my sweet spot for a lot of books....

[MetalPSI]

57 minutes ago, Pat Thomas said:

The current 9.8 craze is one of the main drivers of these outrageous sales. Collectors (especially newcomers) view CGC grading as the "official" real grade of a comic. It isn't, though. From what I understand, their grading is determined by multiple graders and the average between them. And these graders have been trained by CGC (an idea for a company not regulated by any sanctioning body with real authority or rules). They have their own set of rules, which they determined themselves when they went into business, based on the Overstreet standards that are really just general guidelines that can be interpreted differently (sometimes by the same grader). A CGC 9.8 graded comic is now perceived as absolute as long as it is undisturbed in the slab, even when an obvious defect is present.

Grading wasn't meant to be determine thousands of dollars difference in value because of 2-4 10ths of a point in a grade. It started off as a service that would detect restoration and place the comic in a sealed container for preservation. The actual grade was more of a bonus, and the fine print even said that the grade itself was really just an educated guess. They have collectors thinking now that a slabbed book is infinitely more valuable than a raw one, but the only real difference between their grade and one I assign to a book is a fancy case and label that says so.

Props to everybody who got in at CGC on the bottom floor. I doubt they ever imagined it could be as lucrative as it has become. They pioneered the whole comic grading industry, they got to set it all up to their own specifications, and nobody questions them. Wish I would've though of it.

I disagree. There are several people who question them. Daily. On this board. Right now.

CGC offers a service, and while I agree a lot of newcomers have no idea how CGC actually works, a LOT of newcomers to the hobby pass on slabs. See it at conventions all the time.

"Whats that?" They exclaim, while looking for a raw copy of the same book. "I'm not paying that for a case"

I think we still have a few years to determine how much clout CGC will have in the industry. 

[Lazyboy]

On 1/27/2021 at 10:32 PM, Rip said:

Recently it would have to be the Marvel Previews 95 craze. There are going to be some very upset people once they find out how many are really out there.

 

On 1/28/2021 at 6:49 AM, Angel of Death said:

Marvel Previews #95...

Read the title, guys!