Are there really lots of new collectors, and do they care about the older stuff?
1 1

74 posts in this topic

I bought my first piece two years ago. I have seen some creep my purchasing habits during that short interval. I've paid four digits for a few pieces, but it would take a special piece for me to cross the $5k threshold, which I have not so far. For those pieces which do come my way, I am likely a black hole.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, vodou said:

Or...maybe you could pull an example or two of things you wouldn't never look twice at currently but if prices were cut by "x%" you would "look" and by "x*y%" you would "likely buy": for the fun of it?

Sorry, totally overlooked that. I'll try to answer your question properly below. In doing so I noticed that If I ever really liked something at whatever price, I would either buy it, or it's snapped up while I debate it.

I'm often happy to pay whatever price unless I'm low on funds at that particular time. But here's an example:

ERIK-LARSEN-1990-AMAZING-SPIDER-MAN-336.thumb.jpg.81eeee9f3c07b2e92ad8d3c3b47aa9e0.jpg

Bang centre in my sweet spot for nostalgia, but not a very interesting piece to look at, no action, no spider-man.

The fact it's currently available says a lot. It's on offer for $4500. I'd seriously think about it for $600 and definitely snap it up at $200-$300

 

3 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

I’m more in keeping with vodou’s approach because I feel it honors the form. Cartoon and comic art is designed to tell a story; it is a key difference with that of fine art where the story is basically a single panel, and the viewer is sometimes left to guess at what goes before or after. The clutter is part of the limits inherent in that particular type of cartoon art. In fact, I will downgrade art if I feel a panel page is being used by an artist to show off instead of move the story along. Sometimes, I will even look at the whole story to see if the page fits in properly to the overall story. 

I do agree with you. I have a few panel pages and if I see a page that tells a coherent story, I will gravitate to that page over a splash. I cannot deny that I'm intitally drawn to splashes though, which, themselves can tell the story on their own. Take a look at the one below:

Steven_Rogers_(Earth-616).png.f89f55db512d4faa4f32017614b14cb0.png

Powerful image, and you know what has come in the preceeding panels even if you've never read the comic

Edited by Shin-Kaiser
spelling
Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Shin-Kaiser said:

I'd seriously think about it for $600 and definitely snap it up at $200-$300

You'll get nobody else to agree with me - but that's about what it's worth "several hundred". All money above that is rising tide lifts all boats puffery.

It's a nice example, of Larsen ASM art but also the context of my question - thanks!

Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Shin-Kaiser said:

Sorry, totally overlooked that. I'll try to answer your question properly below. In doing so I noticed that If I ever really liked something at whatever price, I would either buy it, or it's snapped up while I debate it.

I'm often happy to pay whatever price unless I'm low on funds at that particular time. But here's an example:

ERIK-LARSEN-1990-AMAZING-SPIDER-MAN-336.thumb.jpg.81eeee9f3c07b2e92ad8d3c3b47aa9e0.jpg

Bang centre in my sweet spot for nostalgia, but not a very interesting piece to look at, no action, no spider-man.

The fact it's currently available says a lot. It's on offer for $4500. I'd seriously think about it for $600 and definitely snap it up at $200-$300

 

I do agree with you. I have a few panel pages and if I see a page that tells a coherent story, I will gravitate to that page over a splash. I cannot deny that I'm intitally drawn to splashes though, which, themselves can tell the story on their own. Take a look at the one below:

Steven_Rogers_(Earth-616).png.f89f55db512d4faa4f32017614b14cb0.png

Powerful image, and you know what has come in the preceeding panels even if you've never read the comic

Regarding the Larsen Spidey page, you'd have to pay me to take a page like that.  ugh!

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, inovrmihd said:

depreciating asset (and I get the buy art that gives you pleasure aspect, I am just asking about the economics)?  Again, sorry for the stream of consciousness way I worded these questions.

I will try to answer your question. 

* Very few pieces of comic original art will be worth much 100 years from now. How much is "much" will depend on what everything else is worth (e.g. houses, flying cars, technological implants, etc.). There will be 100's more collectible types for people to spend their money on.

* Historic or pieces by Artist that have transcended time will be worth a lot more than today. Who they are.....I don't know.

*  Most art doesn't really have a lot of demand at current prices or their wouldn't be so many pages available on websites. And the pieces with high demand (and are truly a good representation of the artist or of the character), sell very quickly. 

* But the real key (and the questions you would like to know the answer to) are 1) when will prices go down and 2) more importantly what will the prices be when they hit their peak.

And that's the key. Is your art "depreciating". It probably will one day but if it is 1000% higher than it is today, you might not care.

* Right now the market is STRONG. As a collector first, too strong.

* Prices on ALL art will not start to go down overnight. If you start to see lots of pieces by say a specific artist/character and they sit on dealers sites for years (yes, I said years) and then you see prices at auctions for similar pieces going down auction after auction, then it's possible those pieces have peaked.

My point is that you will have time to sell/get out. It won't go from 100% demand to none overnight (unless a nuclear war occurs). 

Enjoy the hobby.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

To answer directly the question in the title, it seems to me there are new collectors buying contemporary OA.  I recently bought art from recent issues of PoX related titles (RB Silva, Dautermann, Asrar) and a couple of pages from Andrade's Cap Marvel. In all cases I was just able to buy the last couple of pages, with the rest having sold pretty quickly. Same apparantly repeatedly happens with Felix's drops.  Pepe Larraz 's "Artists Proofs" from PoX have also been scooped in no time.  And yet, very little of this material appears on CAF.  So it seems to me there is a new generation of younger buyers. Some of them may be branching out into '90s and earlier stuff and support prices alongside us Gen-X ers...

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, sfilosa said:

My point is that you will have time to sell/get out. It won't go from 100% demand to none overnight (unless a nuclear war occurs). 

 

Wars happen. Generally, they are not predictable (except to the Generals ;) )

This analysis of assets during war present a mixed-bag case. https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/protecting-your-capital-during-war

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, vodou said:

You'll get nobody else to agree with me - but that's about what it's worth "several hundred". All money above that is rising tide lifts all boats puffery.

It's a nice example, of Larsen ASM art but also the context of my question - thanks!

Agree.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Lucas Museum opening later this year will be a big boost in helping to educate and excite people about original art. Just like museums did for Impressionist and Modern art. Artists and collectors donating to comic museums like Billy Ireland will really help. I have a 81' Byrne drawing I would never sell so I want to donate it. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/7/2021 at 5:02 PM, batman_fan said:

I will give an example I am familiar with

Charles Schulz Peanuts strips.

Strip stopped being printed January 3rd 2000 (21 years ago).  There has been limited exposure although that may change now that Apple has the rights to the characters.

The highest prices every paid in a public venue occurred in 2020 for two pieces of material (Daily from 1950s at $192k and a group or early character drawings at $288k).

This is for a strip art that has about 8,000 items in the open market and hasn't been published in over 20 years.

Screen Shot 2021-02-07 at 2.59.59 PM.png

Screen Shot 2021-02-07 at 3.00.13 PM.png

This is a market that I do NOT understand - some of it for the reasons that you've mentioned.

Every auction seems to have multiple pieces spanning all eras.  Plenty of supply but, as they teach in Economics 100 - it may be as simple as demand far outstripping supply (which seems to be plentiful).

Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, pemart1966 said:

This is a market that I do NOT understand - some of it for the reasons that you've mentioned.

Every auction seems to have multiple pieces spanning all eras.  Plenty of supply but, as they teach in Economics 100 - it may be as simple as demand far outstripping supply (which seems to be plentiful).

Trust me,, I know what you mean.  There are a lot of examples available and yet auction after auction you see pretty strong prices and for better material you see incredible prices.  I am pretty sure there are several collectors that have much deeper pockets than me and a lot more strips than me.

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, sfilosa said:

* Prices on ALL art will not start to go down overnight. If you start to see lots of pieces by say a specific artist/character and they sit on dealers sites for years (yes, I said years) and then you see prices at auctions for similar pieces going down auction after auction, then it's possible those pieces have peaked.

My point is that you will have time to sell/get out. It won't go from 100% demand to none overnight (unless a nuclear war occurs). 

I think it will be a lot more sudden than that, even without a nuclear war. First, pieces at auction will remain at market prices even when demand goes down. As discussed on other threads, dealers and others interested in maintaining price supports will buy to protect their inventory/collection. Then, there will be private sales where people will offer special bargains (and refer to things like recent auction prices to support their position). That circle of people getting offers will widen over time until it becomes obvious the price is not sustainable. By then, when things are off by 1/3 or so, panic selling by some owners kicks in, while others who can't believe what happened to their billion dollar babies stand firm. The market, by then a little smarter, sees what has happened, senses an avalanche, and the price pressure increases to drop things even further. The insiders know what is going on--the average collector does not. Now, we are down to maybe 33% to 25% of price. And maybe it stabilizes. Maybe not.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Repricing today given electronic sales venues and payment methods  is instant and without warning.   See Michael Jordan basketball cards that are 20x what they were three months ago.    If that 20x was down to 10x or up to 30x next week, there’s very little most people could do to either react to the repricing or control it.  By the time the prices have started moving it’s too late for any significant adjustments.

Edited by Bronty
Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't discount how many dealers and re-sellers are out there with dozens or hundreds of pages that sit unsold on their sites have a vested interest in keeping the auction sales price floor at a certain level. Many of these pages end up on re-sellers websites for insane amounts of money and will never get to be enjoyed by a collector. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, this seems like a lotta dough for a blueprint...

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/frank-quitely-and-jamie-grant-all-star-superman-4-story-page-20-original-art-dc-2006-/a/122106-13867.s

Terror Dogs from Ghostbusters must be all the rage, these drawings scored higher prices than the lot with Slimer as well as the one with Stay Puft Marshmallow Man:

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/thom-enriquez-ghostbusters-terror-dogs-concept-illustrations-original-art-group-of-2-columbia-1983-/a/122106-13734.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Edited by lobrac
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, lobrac said:

It isn’t a lot of money if you are engaged in price maintenance, and say, have access to a whole lot more. Set the table on Heritage to a price point, and you have a talking point on a higher price for a popular artist’s other work.

There is another piece on this week’s auction in which the agent or rep is pricing things at roughly double what they sell for elsewhere—even now.  If that auction piece does the same, I will run from making offers for other pieces he is selling. Too suspicious.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Hockeyflow33 said:

Don't discount how many dealers and re-sellers are out there with dozens or hundreds of pages that sit unsold on their sites have a vested interest in keeping the auction sales price floor at a certain level. Many of these pages end up on re-sellers websites for insane amounts of money and will never get to be enjoyed by a collector. 

oh absolutely.   that's what keeps things liquid and prices stable and confidence high.   That happens every single auction.    But there's limits to that.

Edited by Bronty
Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

It isn’t a lot of money if you are engaged in price maintenance, and say, have access to a whole lot more. Set the table on Heritage to a price point, and you have a talking point on a higher price for a popular artist’s other work.

There is another piece on this week’s auction in which the agent or rep is pricing things at roughly double what they sell for elsewhere—even now.  If that auction piece does the same, I will run from making offers for other pieces he is selling. Too suspicious.

I dunno.   If that price was due to 'maintenance' you'd bid up slimer and stay puft more than terror dogs.   Sometimes its just a good result from a classic property.    I don't think ghostbusters concepts really need any 'help.'    Its possible of course. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, lobrac said:

Not a blue print. You need to read the description before posting  

Frank would do rough blue pencil layouts, then go over the page in pencil.

The Art was published from pencils. 
 

MI

Edited by artdealer
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
1 1