Do you guys think Submariner 1 has potential to be a big key? 2 2

[speedcake]

Subby 1 is a nice, affordable late Silver Age Subby key to have if you aren't able to go after a FF4 #4.  

1 hour ago, comicginger1789 said:

Is it a cool looking book? Sure!

Would I pay $100 for a solid higher mid grade copy? Sure!

 

Per GPA, a Subby 1 in 7.0 hasn't cost $100 since sometime in 2014.  

 

[Chillax23]

Depends what you think a big key is ..... it will likely follow the lead of Cap 100 and Iron Man 1 - raise in price up to a movie appearance and then drop down.

I think it will settle around where Cap 100 is and be cheaper than Iron Man 1 and certainly cheaper than Silver Surfer 1 (which will be the most expensive of the 1968 books IMO).

Even if it settles to Cap 100 pricing it is still overpriced IMO (but I have zero interest in the character/book so perhaps I am being too harsh). 

[Drummy]

I think Subby #1 has a great cover and is certainly one of the 1968 'mini-key' #1's as the titles changed over.  But if FF 4 continues to rocket up (I noted Dale Roberts just sold a nice 6.5 wp for $5700+ yesterday), people who don't want to spend that kind of cash on his first appearance may look to this book instead, which may cause the price to rise.  I think Doctor Strange #169 had something of a bump in that regard a while back?

Dan

[William-James88]

2 hours ago, Chillax23 said:

I think it will settle around where Cap 100 is and be cheaper than Iron Man 1 and certainly cheaper than Silver Surfer 1 (which will be the most expensive of the 1968 books IMO).

Interesting, why do you think Silver Surfer 1 will be the most expensive?

[AJLewandoski]

22 minutes ago, William-James88 said:

Interesting, why do you think Silver Surfer 1 will be the most expensive?

Silver Surfer #1 is the only real "1st issue" out of the '68 lot, the rest are just reprints of their real origins and continuations from their anthology book stories. It also has a great cover, his first solo story and origin, it's a 25 cent-er so it's a tad harder to come by in really nice shape etc. etc. The surfer hasn't popped up yet, but with the way FF #48 has taken off in the past few years I think SS #1 is definitely the book to own out of Subby 1, Iron Man 1, Hulk 102, Cap 100, Doctor Strange 169, and Nick Fury 1. (But I suppose that's all just like my opinion man ) 

[William-James88]

4 minutes ago, AJLewandoski said:

Silver Surfer #1 is the only real "1st issue" out of the '68 lot, the rest are just reprints of their real origins and continuations from their anthology book stories. It also has a great cover, his first solo story and origin, it's a 25 cent-er so it's a tad harder to come by in really nice shape etc. etc. The surfer hasn't popped up yet, but with the way FF #48 has taken off in the past few years I think SS #1 is definitely the book to own out of Subby 1, Iron Man 1, Hulk 102, Cap 100, Doctor Strange 169, and Nick Fury 1. (But I suppose that's all just like my opinion man ) 

hahahaha, nice! And yeah, that's a good point. It has his origin which is new material, unlike the others.

As for Subby 1, the more I think of it, it may still be a key but more for its cover than anything else.

Thanks for all the replies!

[alexgross.com]

2 hours ago, William-James88 said:

Interesting, why do you think Silver Surfer 1 will be the most expensive?

norrin is easily the most popular character of those 68 number ones, with the possible exception of iron man, who's already had 3 films and 4 avengers films. surfer has not had his day on the big screen yet in the mcu. 

 it probably didnt hurt that surfer 1 was reprinted in 'sons of origins' and surfer 3 was reprinted in 'bring on the bad guys,' two influential tpbs for my generation of readers in the 70s.

surfer 1 has already increased in value but not with a giant pop. room to grow. i still think subby 1 will also grow. just not as much. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by www.alexgross.com

[shadroch]

14 hours ago, zosocane said:

Sub-Mariner is waaay more bad-ash than Aquaman.  Also, Sub-Mariner would beat up Aquaman in hand-to-hand combat.  Underwater and on the surface. 

Aquaman would telepathically summon giant electric eels to stun Namor and Giant Blue Whales to rip him asunder.

Daredevil 7 will explode if Subby ever takes off.

[fishbone]

14 hours ago, comicginger1789 said:

Is it a cool looking book? Sure!

Would I pay $100 for a solid higher mid grade copy? Sure!

is it likely getting unwarranted hype because of unknowledgeable collectors? Sure!

Are the movies driving this book higher than it should be? Sure!

Would I rather own FF4 or even FF6 (the former I don’t but the latter I do)? Sure!

Ontario, Canada     

[fishbone]

3 hours ago, AJLewandoski said:

Silver Surfer #1 is the only real "1st issue" out of the '68 lot, the rest are just reprints of their real origins and continuations from their anthology book stories. It also has a great cover, his first solo story and origin, it's a 25 cent-er so it's a tad harder to come by in really nice shape etc. etc. The surfer hasn't popped up yet, but with the way FF #48 has taken off in the past few years I think SS #1 is definitely the book to own out of Subby 1, Iron Man 1, Hulk 102, Cap 100, Doctor Strange 169, and Nick Fury 1. (But I suppose that's all just like my opinion man ) 

The Dude abides 

[PKJ]

Here is a thought, and don't shoot me I just notice changes in some other hobbies in regards to how people collect.

What if the next generation of comic collectors collected different from us or most of the comic collectors? I am 47 and agree with everything you guys are saying, it and Silver Surfer 1 are not books I would hastily buy just to have.

 I remember having a few copies of Iron Man 1 well before the movies came out and sold a couple NM copies when the first movie came out and the book sold  pretty much immediately. I remember chatting with one of the guys who bought one and he had no idea of TOS 39, and even as I shared, I could tell he could care less. It was Iron Man 1 to him, that is what he wanted first issues, not first appearance, first cameo, first issue. 

I see people our age getting back in and aggressively searching out Spawn, Gi Joe, TNMT, Valiant comics etc because those were the emotional connecting books to their childhood and the hobby. In sports cards the collectors are pretty much picking what is the hot RC, not based on when it releases sometimes, but by a number of factors, if they move to here I could see the same mentality applied. I also see people just badgering people to death on Facebook for not falling in line with how someone else collects and think how silly the approach is and everyone focuses differently.

It has also been mentioned people being priced out of the real first appearances so the demand can and will move to something else, Can't afford FF48, it is easy to jump to SS1 and ignore 2nd and 3rd appearances or covers. And some people just want a "piece" of a lot of little things sometimes. A display to my wife looks the same if it is loaded with Bronze age books or Golden Age books.

In my opinion it would be good to see these 68 #1's shoot up and draw in more interest surrounding the rest of the titles.

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by PKJ

[fishbone]

2 minutes ago, PKJ said:

Here is a thought, and don't shoot me I just notice changes in some other hobbies in regards to how people collect.

What if the next generation of comic collectors collected different from us or most of the comic collectors? I am 47 and agree with everything you guys are saying, it and Silver Surfer 1 are not books I would hastily buy just to have.

 I remember having a few copies of Iron Man 1 well before the movies came out and sold a couple NM copies when they did pretty much immediately. I remember chatting with one of the guys who bought one and he had no idea of TOS 39, and even as I shared, I could tell he could care less. It was Iron Man 1 to him, that is what he wanted first issues, not first appearance, first cameo, first issue. 

I see people our age getting back in and aggressively searching out Spawn, Gi Joe, TNMT, Valiant comics etc because those were the emotional connecting books to their childhood and the hobby. In sports cards the collectors are pretty much picking what is the hot RC, not based on when it releases sometimes, but by a number of factors, if they move to here I could see the same mentality applied. I also see people just badgering people to death on Facebook for not falling in line with how someone else collects and think how silly the approach is and everyone focuses differently.

It has also been mentioned people being priced out of the real first appearances so the demand can and will move to something else, Can't afford FF48, it is easy to jump to SS1 and ignore 2nd and 3rd appearances or covers. And some people just want a "piece" of a lot of little things sometimes. A display to my wife looks the same if it is loaded with Bronze age books or Golden Age books.

In my opinion it would be good to see these 68 #1's shoot up and draw in more interest surrounding the rest of the titles.

 

some well thought-out thoughts 

[comicginger1789]

3 hours ago, AJLewandoski said:

Silver Surfer #1 is the only real "1st issue" out of the '68 lot, the rest are just reprints of their real origins and continuations from their anthology book stories. It also has a great cover, his first solo story and origin, it's a 25 cent-er so it's a tad harder to come by in really nice shape etc. etc. The surfer hasn't popped up yet, but with the way FF #48 has taken off in the past few years I think SS #1 is definitely the book to own out of Subby 1, Iron Man 1, Hulk 102, Cap 100, Doctor Strange 169, and Nick Fury 1. (But I suppose that's all just like my opinion man ) 

I agree 100%. And here is why

With Subby, you have a bunch of GA stuff...hard to find and expensive, but it exists. You also have early FF appearances and Tales to Astonish appearances that precede this first issue. 

With Iron Man, similar tale. Lots of earlier appearance in Tales of Suspense and Avengers before his own book.

With Hulk, same

With Cap, same

With Dr. Strange, same

With Nick Fury, same

Silver Surfer also has a handful of appearances in FF and TTA that precede this issue, however none are stories focused solely on him. Yes TTA never solely focused on Hulk but you did get a story where he was the central character in TTA issues. With Surfer, he was always a character who came into the story. For some of those reasons (and because I will argue that that cover plus it being a square bound book) add to the value that book should have and is where I would put my money personally. I would rather that issue in mid high grade above all the others

[comicginger1789]

12 minutes ago, PKJ said:

Here is a thought, and don't shoot me I just notice changes in some other hobbies in regards to how people collect.

What if the next generation of comic collectors collected different from us or most of the comic collectors? I am 47 and agree with everything you guys are saying, it and Silver Surfer 1 are not books I would hastily buy just to have.

 I remember having a few copies of Iron Man 1 well before the movies came out and sold a couple NM copies when the first movie came out and the book sold  pretty much immediately. I remember chatting with one of the guys who bought one and he had no idea of TOS 39, and even as I shared, I could tell he could care less. It was Iron Man 1 to him, that is what he wanted first issues, not first appearance, first cameo, first issue. 

I see people our age getting back in and aggressively searching out Spawn, Gi Joe, TNMT, Valiant comics etc because those were the emotional connecting books to their childhood and the hobby. In sports cards the collectors are pretty much picking what is the hot RC, not based on when it releases sometimes, but by a number of factors, if they move to here I could see the same mentality applied. I also see people just badgering people to death on Facebook for not falling in line with how someone else collects and think how silly the approach is and everyone focuses differently.

It has also been mentioned people being priced out of the real first appearances so the demand can and will move to something else, Can't afford FF48, it is easy to jump to SS1 and ignore 2nd and 3rd appearances or covers. And some people just want a "piece" of a lot of little things sometimes. A display to my wife looks the same if it is loaded with Bronze age books or Golden Age books.

In my opinion it would be good to see these 68 #1's shoot up and draw in more interest surrounding the rest of the titles.

 

A very good point. For me as a collector, Golden Age stuff is outta range (for the most part) but I still view Silver Age as stuff I like and can get, even though a lot of it is expensive. For newer collectors (of which I technically am due to age, 32 but having started collecting silver and bronze stuff when I was 12 I think I am the anomaly), maybe they view Silver Age stuff as "unobtainable" or for them, even unreadable, so they focus on the later 60s and 70s as an era that while still corny, they can enjoy at that is where they put their money. 

Like the guy buying Iron Man 1...it ran until he was a kid (in the 90s I assume) so maybe he started with an Iron Man #300 or something as a kid and wanted to go back and so Iron Man 1 makes sense for him. But going further back, maybe he feels those stories are even more dated and of less interest...

[zosocane]

2 hours ago, comicginger1789 said:

A very good point. For me as a collector, Golden Age stuff is outta range (for the most part) but I still view Silver Age as stuff I like and can get, even though a lot of it is expensive. For newer collectors (of which I technically am due to age, 32 but having started collecting silver and bronze stuff when I was 12 I think I am the anomaly), maybe they view Silver Age stuff as "unobtainable" or for them, even unreadable, so they focus on the later 60s and 70s as an era that while still corny, they can enjoy at that is where they put their money. 

Like the guy buying Iron Man 1...it ran until he was a kid (in the 90s I assume) so maybe he started with an Iron Man #300 or something as a kid and wanted to go back and so Iron Man 1 makes sense for him. But going further back, maybe he feels those stories are even more dated and of less interest...

All of these 1968 Marvel #1s are just awesome books to have.  Stan must have been incredibly happy, and proud, that he had a new distribution deal and was no longer shackled to having to limit the number of monthly titles they could produce.  It must have been liberating to discontinue, for example, Tales of Suspense, and publish a stand-alone Cap book and a stand-alone Iron Man book.  Ditto for Hulk, Dr. Strange, Silver Surfer, Sub-Mariner, Nick Fury Agent of SHIELD, and any other stand-alone title launched in 68.

[comicginger1789]

True^^^
 

For me, I don’t own any sadly except Nick Fury 1. A Silver Surfer, Iron Man and Subby 1 top my list in that order. The Hulk, Cap and Dr Strange books do little for me personally.

 

[William-James88]

1 hour ago, comicginger1789 said:

True^^^
 

For me, I don’t own any sadly except Nick Fury 1. A Silver Surfer, Iron Man and Subby 1 top my list in that order. The Hulk, Cap and Dr Strange books do little for me personally.

 

Hulk 1 is also redundant since he started out by having his own series when he was first introduced.

[gunsmokin]

I’d prefer a TTA 70 over a Subby 1.

[10centcomics]

My answer is a confident no. If Sub-Mariner takes off because of a cool MCU appearance, this book will still play 2nd or 3rd fiddle to the other Sub-Mariner keys (GA or SA). This sorta feels like asking if Cap 100 will become a big key and I think we all agree that Avengers 4 will always be the SA Cap big key book to own. In Sub-Mariner's case, I think the SA key will always be FF4. 

[Pantodude]

I disagree, and not just because Subby was my good bud during my TTA days.    Whether or not Sub-Mariner #1 ever rivals FF4, there is no question it has the potential to be a big key.   In addition to the reasons already noted above, Sub-Mariner #1 marked another significant Marvel milestone.  It was a big deal that the Sub-Mariner received his own self-titled series in Sub-Mariner #1 despite being the first and longest-running anti-hero (all the way back to Marvel Comics #1 in 1939) and despite never having joined the Avengers up to that point (that didn't happen until 1985).  By contrast, anti-hero Hulk was a co-founder of the Avengers in 1963, years before IH#102 in 1968.  Just my 1.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Pantodude