Do you buy anything from the Metropolis 50% off sales?

[nik]

CGC needs stricter grading.

 

I disagree. They need consistant grading.

 

Steve

 

I concur...

 

Then we would have nothing to [embarrassing lack of self control] about...

[BEAUMONTS]

I sold a CGC 9.6 copy of this book last month.

 

 

I am looking for a CGC 9.6 and I also have this on my Metropolis " want " list, for appx. a year now.

I understand what steve is saying with regards to CGC's consistency, but at the same time when your paying 140 bucks for a raw comic and it comes back a 9.2, disappointment is a given. I have noticed on my last submission that "this" batch seemed to be graded a lot tighter.

As I stated before, I think Metropolis has a excellent business, and have been quite pleased with the service when I have purchased CGC comics from them. But every raw comic I have purchased has been overgraded, and this is not to say that all there raw are overgraded but the one's that "I" have received have been. Also as a Canadian, the return policy time line is just to short to be utilized, so you are basically SOL on lesser valued comics.

Sorry Steve, I did not want to besmirch you but you asked about the grading before and I had to respond.

[metropoliscomics]

I am looking for a CGC 9.6 and I also have this on my Metropolis " want " list, for appx. a year now.

 

Considering that I already sold you 2 CGC graded 9.6 copies of this book in the past, the recent 9.6 was sold to a collector who did not have any.

 

And the question of the raw Avengers #52. I do believe that book was a 9.6 And as the person who created the grade 9.6, I feel I have every right to say so.

 

As I said earlier, take the book and compare it to CGC bronze 9.4s and 9.6s in Heritage.

 

Stephen

[Foolkiller]

I think this discussion illustrates an interesting dispute in that there is only "one" 9.6 now -- that's the CGC standard. I was discussing this with namisgr the other day, and when you consider the fact that there are a lot of other factors beside structural integrity which should factor into the grade of the book, there are going to be discrepancies. CGC's monopoly on defining the grading standards has both filtered out the poor graders who never knew what they were doing and forced them to tighten up, but also created this mythical and impossible standard to meet. The reason I say impossible is because CGC grades the book, but never tells you the criteria -- so when you get a book from another dealer and it doesn't grade to CGC standards, you have no idea why or why it didn't make the cut really -- even with the grader's notes -- because you don't have the standard CGC is using to actually grade the book.

 

The consistency is a problem. Of course grading is part art -- but frankly, the grading on CGC books goes through "stages" of strict and loose, thus guaranteeing that all CGC 9.x's are not created equal! Thus, this back and forth over the Avengers 52 illustrates this problem in my mind -- you are upset that there's "no way" this book is a 9.6 -- yet when I look at the book, I certainly think it's on the borderline of 9.4/9.6 when I look at the scan. But I think that our focus on the label has caused collectors to buy into these standards, which, as I noted, we don't actually know what they are.

[metropoliscomics]

I think this discussion illustrates an interesting dispute in that there is only "one" 9.6 now -- that's the CGC standard. I was discussing this with namisgr the other day, and when you consider the fact that there are a lot of other factors beside structural integrity which should factor into the grade of the book, there are going to be discrepancies. CGC's monopoly on defining the grading standards has both filtered out the poor graders who never knew what they were doing and forced them to tighten up, but also created this mythical and impossible standard to meet. The reason I say impossible is because CGC grades the book, but never tells you the criteria -- so when you get a book from another dealer and it doesn't grade to CGC standards, you have no idea why or why it didn't make the cut really -- even with the grader's notes -- because you don't have the standard CGC is using to actually grade the book.

 

The consistency is a problem. Of course grading is part art -- but frankly, the grading on CGC books goes through "stages" of strict and loose, thus guaranteeing that all CGC 9.x's are not created equal! Thus, this back and forth over the Avengers 52 illustrates this problem in my mind -- you are upset that there's "no way" this book is a 9.6 -- yet when I look at the book, I certainly think it's on the borderline of 9.4/9.6 when I look at the scan. But I think that our focus on the label has caused collectors to buy into these standards, which, as I noted, we don't actually know what they are.

 

well said.

 

 

As I said, I would gladly put this against any Heritage/CGC 9.6

[arexcrooke]

The only thing that I could think would be if there was something going on in the interior of the book.

It does look a spot bit better than a 9.2 though.

[metropoliscomics]

Metro has several Nedors in the 8.0-8.5 range that I'd be interested in, but they're priced on average about 50% higher than the same books would go for on eBay or in a Heritage auction.

 

8.5s seem to be priced at about double guide, while elsewhere they sell for guide plus 25-40%.

 

They have every right to ask those prices, but I do end up looking elsewhere as a result.

 

Some Nedors are very difficult for me to acquire. When I do get them in I do very well with them. I also believe some of them are undervalued in the Guide and have chosen to price them at premiums. Having said this if you would like to send me an email with specific books and prices you would like to pay please do at vincentz@metropolisent.com.

Thanks,

Vincent

[metropoliscomics]

Books can be overgraded or damaged in storage or handling. The buyer can return if not satisfied.

 

Sure, assuming you're in the US, as myself and FT are not.

 

Plus, I'm sick oif buying over-graded drek. I buy from other dealers like Bob Storms, Doug Sulipa and Superworld and have no problems. I buy from forum members and have virtually no issues. I buy from Metro and get a pile of over-graded dross.

 

Do the math.

 

I have done business with all 3 dealers mentioned and let me say I have the utmost respect for them. I am not sure what you purchased from my company but I would be more than happy to discuss your disappointment with the books. For the record I do accept returns on raw books for up to 10 days from the day you receive the books. If it takes you a few days longer to returnt them simply call my company and it is no problem. I do have a hard time reading your statement about your experience with my company as we do work very hard to acquire and accurately describe books for sale. If you would like to discuss this with me please email me at vincentz@metropolisent.com or call me toll free 800-229-6387 ext. 14

PS- If you would consider doing business with my company in the future I would be more than happy to take a 2nd look at any orders you place to minimize the posibility of returns.

 

Thanks,

 

Vincent Zurzolo

[joe_collector]

I have done business with all 3 dealers mentioned and let me say I have the utmost respect for them. I am not sure what you purchased from my company but I would be more than happy to discuss your disappointment with the books.

 

We already went through this awhile back, and there's really no reason to dredge it up again. But here's a quick grading test for you.

 

Let's say you have a FF 122 with 5-6 color-breaking spine creases (2 pretty deep), yellowed interior and slightly tanned covers, a 1/4" rip on the edge of the front cover, a few edge dents and blunted upper and lower corners with small creases. and this damage to the upper left corner.

 

 

What would be a close estimate of your grade?

[sfilosa]

The consistency is a problem. Of course grading is part art -- but frankly, the grading on CGC books goes through "stages" of strict and loose, thus guaranteeing that all CGC 9.x's are not created equal! Thus, this back and forth over the Avengers 52 illustrates this problem in my mind -- you are upset that there's "no way" this book is a 9.6 -- yet when I look at the book, I certainly think it's on the borderline of 9.4/9.6 when I look at the scan. But I think that our focus on the label has caused collectors to buy into these standards, which, as I noted, we don't actually know what they are.

 

I agree that I can't see anything in the scan to make the book not at least a 9.4 (or higher).

 

That said, buying raw is always tough because in this case the book also got the dreaded Cr/Ow pages (it's possible there is a touch of tanning on the interior cover which pulled the grade down). In general Cr/Ow can reduce the value 20-30% (at least once the book is CGC'd).

 

I do believe a lot of times, less expensive books that are HG (i.e. 9.2 or higher) aren't certified, just because the person knows the page quality is lacking.

[metropoliscomics]

If you are a Canadian/International customer who wants to return a book but is afriad they will not make the 10 days simply email or call us and let us know the books are on the way and it is not a problem. You must get confirmation from someone at my office and make sure you pack the books back up exactly the way they were shipped (for safety/protection reasons of course). We really do our best to accomodate our customers needs-please contact us with questions and requests.

Sincerely,

 

Vincent Zurzolo

[Darthdiesel]

I have done business with all 3 dealers mentioned and let me say I have the utmost respect for them. I am not sure what you purchased from my company but I would be more than happy to discuss your disappointment with the books.

 

We already went through this awhile back, and there's really no reason to dredge it up again. But here's a quick grading test for you.

 

Let's say you have a FF 122 with 5-6 color-breaking spine creases (2 pretty deep), yellowed interior and slightly tanned covers, a 1/4" rip on the edge of the front cover, a few edge dents and blunted upper and lower corners with small creases. and this damage to the upper left corner.

 

 

What would be a close estimate of your grade?

 

FN+ at best (mostly because of scuffing and rip)

[metropoliscomics]

I have done business with all 3 dealers mentioned and let me say I have the utmost respect for them. I am not sure what you purchased from my company but I would be more than happy to discuss your disappointment with the books.

 

We already went through this awhile back, and there's really no reason to dredge it up again. But here's a quick grading test for you.

 

Let's say you have a FF 122 with 5-6 color-breaking spine creases (2 pretty deep), yellowed interior and slightly tanned covers, a 1/4" rip on the edge of the front cover, a few edge dents and blunted upper and lower corners with small creases. and this damage to the upper left corner.

 

 

What would be a close estimate of your grade?

 

I don't grade corners- I grade the whole book. If we already went through this why would you bring it up again? I am being very serious here- if you didn't like the book why not return it? Is it possible we made a mistake-yes. If you would like to order again with me I will look at each book to make sure it makes the grade before shipping-just request it when placing the order. I have done this for collectors who are more critical of books and they have been very happy.

Thanks,

Vincent

[Foolkiller]

JC:

 

I was originally responding to your initial post of this information where you revealed it was advertised and purchased from Metropolis as a 9.0 -- obviously I don't believe it is based on your description and what you have provided.

 

Books are always going to get through from almost any dealer that are grossly over graded or that have defects that were missed. I think the only solution when this happens on a consistent basis is simply to stop doing business with them.

 

In the example given I defended, and still defend, the notion that the Avengers 52 was so wildly over graded by Metro, because the buyer of that book was only unhappy until CGC told him the book was not a 9.6 -- obviously, when he first bought it, he did not return it. When you bought that book, you knew right away it wasn't a 9.0 and you never submitted it to CGC. The question here is that the Avengers 52 at issue actually looks to me like a 9.4/9.6 -- so the only thing that's changed is the psychological attachment to the number there.

[nearmint]

Metro has several Nedors in the 8.0-8.5 range that I'd be interested in, but they're priced on average about 50% higher than the same books would go for on eBay or in a Heritage auction.

 

8.5s seem to be priced at about double guide, while elsewhere they sell for guide plus 25-40%.

 

They have every right to ask those prices, but I do end up looking elsewhere as a result.

 

Some Nedors are very difficult for me to acquire. When I do get them in I do very well with them. I also believe some of them are undervalued in the Guide and have chosen to price them at premiums. Having said this if you would like to send me an email with specific books and prices you would like to pay please do at vincentz@metropolisent.com.

Thanks,

Vincent

 

Vincent,

I couldn't agree more that many Nedors are very difficult to acquire. As for whether they're undervalued in Overstreet, I ponder that question quite often. I hope you're right, but it sure seems like I'm part of an awfully small pool of collectors interested in these books.

When I get home tonight, I'll make a list and email you.

Thanks,

Jeff

[joe_collector]

When you bought that book, you knew right away it wasn't a 9.0 and you never submitted it to CGC. The question here is that the Avengers 52 at issue actually looks to me like a 9.4/9.6 -- so the only thing that's changed is the psychological attachment to the number there.

 

I totally agree, and let me tell you that if even a few of the 9.4-9.8 books I ordered looked as nice as the Avengers 52, you wouldn't be hearing a peep from me.

[joe_collector]

If you would like to order again with me I will look at each book to make sure it makes the grade before shipping-just request it when placing the order.

 

Thanks for the offer, but since my main interest is Bronze, I doubt you'd want to be pawing over a stack of $20 books.

[BEAUMONTS]

I am looking for a CGC 9.6 and I also have this on my Metropolis " want " list, for appx. a year now.

 

Considering that I already sold you 2 CGC graded 9.6 copies of this book in the past, the recent 9.6 was sold to a collector who did not have any.

 

And the question of the raw Avengers #52. I do believe that book was a 9.6 And as the person who created the grade 9.6, I feel I have every right to say so.

 

As I said earlier, take the book and compare it to CGC bronze 9.4s and 9.6s in Heritage.

 

Stephen

So should I take the Avengers 52 off my want list? I did not realize that buy being a consistent customer and already purchasing two copys, that it put's me out of the running for anymore. Is this a arbitrary policy or just in my case with the Avengers 52? And if you felt so strongly on the 9.6 grade why did you not have it graded, would it not have brought in a premium over the ungraded price?

 

I am truly sorry I even responded to your post asking about grading, and as for Foolkiller's query, I was disappointed with the comic when I received it and I believe, that it was the second last raw purchase that I made from Metropolis. The last raw comic I ordered was Showcase 3 VF+ Nova Scotia copy for 1350.00 there is only a 8.5 and a 9.0 in the census so a VF+ would be truly high grade, I received the comic and it was not a VF+ I then fedex the comic back and they did give me a return no problem. I do wonder however why a comic that is from the Nova Scotia collection and is in VF+ condition is not graded, would it not also sell for a premium graded ? I have made several purchases since but they were all CGC graded. I already explained about the return policy in the previous post's. I am glad however that there "now" seems to be some leniancy for Canadians, but there wasnt at the time.

 

I am just a small fry in these waters and have plenty of comics that are 8.0's etc.I know I have "only" spent a couple of grand with your business but you asked in the initial post about your grading and I responded, I will no longer respond to anymore of your posts and I will no longer purchase any more comics graded or ungraded from you in the future especially now that I know that the want list is a none issue.

[FlyingDonut]

I'll buy one of Metropolis' Phantom Lady 17s if they're 50% off.

[sfilosa]

Compare the scan of this Avengers #52 9.2 to the scan of the Heritage Avengers #64 9.6. The #52 appears to be a higher grade.

 

Don't be bashing the Avengers #64......